Head gaskets for 4cyl engine combos

[JumboFett]

Hey y’all!

 

Does anybody know the specific head gaskets to use for each of the builds in the link below?? Thanks!

 

 

[datzenmike]

Too much bother. What do you have in mind?

 

 

The gasket bore holes must be the same or larger than the cylinder bore.

An L20B gasket would work on an L16/18

A Z24 gasket would work on the Z22 and Z20

 

If an 85mm L20B was bored to 87mm or 89mm you can modify* an 89mm  Z24 gasket by cutting off the front and replace with a L series front to match the timing cover. 

 

* many of the Z series coolant holes don't match the L series block so you will have to compare and perhaps drill some new ones.

 

L, Z, and KA blocks all have the same 95.2mm bore spacings

[JumboFett]

6 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Too much bother. What do you have in mind?

 

 

The gasket bore holes must be the same or larger than the cylinder bore.

An L20B gasket would work on an L16/18

A Z24 gasket would work on the Z22 and Z20

 

If an 85mm L20B was bored to 87mm or 89mm you can modify* an 89mm  Z24 gasket by cutting off the front and replace with a L series front to match the timing cover. 

 

* many of the Z series coolant holes don't match the L series block so you will have to compare and perhaps drill some new ones.

 

L, Z, and KA blocks all have the same 95.2mm bore spacings

Leaning toward the longrod 2.19 (87mm pistons) using my L20B block.

My list of spare parts include a Z22 crank, a set of Z20E rods, and a 219 head. I’m either going to make a NA 219 screamer or figure out a turbo build with my current U67 head (ProTunerz has plans to start making 4cyl L-series turbo manifolds in the future). 
No matter what engine combo I choose a recurring question I’m left wondering is which head gasket works best. Thanks for your help as always.

[datzenmike]

So VG30 pistons, that's an increase from 85mm to 87mm and as there are no '87mm bore L series gaskets, well not easily sourced or out of stock, an 87mm Z22 head gasket or 89mm Z24 gasket will work. Compare it to your old L20B gasket and add any coolant transfer holes* that are needed to convert it for use on the L series block and head. The very front on the Z22 gasket is configured to seal against a Z series timing chain cover so trim it off and graft an L series front on that will. It only has to seal oil splash and fumes in.

 

* The Z series is a cross flow head design with the intake and exhaust ports on opposite sides. The L series has them both on the left side so there tends to be more coolant flow up from the block on the left side to draw away heat from the intake ports that are so close to the hot exhaust ports.

[JumboFett]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

So VG30 pistons, that's an increase from 85mm to 87mm and as there are no '87mm bore L series gaskets, well not easily sourced or out of stock, an 87mm Z22 head gasket or 89mm Z24 gasket will work. Compare it to your old L20B gasket and add any coolant transfer holes* that are needed to convert it for use on the L series block and head. The very front on the Z22 gasket is configured to seal against a Z series timing chain cover so trim it off and graft an L series front on that will. It only has to seal oil splash and fumes in.

 

* The Z series is a cross flow head design with the intake and exhaust ports on opposite sides. The L series has them both on the left side so there tends to be more coolant flow up from the block on the left side to draw away heat from the intake ports that are so close to the hot exhaust ports.

It also just dawned on me that Cometic can probably make a custom gasket (basically an L20B gasket with an 87mm bore and a thickness based on my required specs). The price would likely be quadruple compared to an off the shelf mishmash, but the piece of mind would be worth it. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

Durapro from australia(made in Japan)  I believe are 87mm and get the grafite ones. I had about 8/10 and gave or sold most of them away now.

 

for L16 stock size I use what ever. Felpro.

soembody said Victor Renz was 87mm

 

zcardepot has a sanwa brand or soemthing like that for 29$ (Japan)

 

try ebay for NOS Nismoparts soemtimes they come up

[JumboFett]

4 minutes ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

Durapro from australia(made in Japan)  I believe are 87mm and get the grafite ones. I had about 8/10 and gave or sold most of them away now.

 

for L16 stock size I use what ever. Felpro.

soembody said Victor Renz was 87mm

 

zcardepot has a sanwa brand or soemthing like that for 29$ (Japan)

 

try ebay for NOS Nismoparts soemtimes they come up

Amazing! Thank you 🙏 

[banzai510(hainz)]

If under 70$ If carbs

turbo I find soemone more knowelagble

[JumboFett]

1 hour ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

If under 70$ If carbs

turbo I find soemone more knowelagble

I love me some whistlin spooly boyz, but NA is just so much simpler/safer. Either way I’m also gonna shoot for EFI and a coil-on-plug setup. 
 

[datzenmike]

If you build a 2.19 engine but use the 87mm bore the displacement will be 2,186cc and compression will be 11.45 to 1 with an open chamber L head. Use ARP and clamp it down.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

FWIW - even the GT spec race engines I used to build used factory Nissan head bolts. And that's with 13.5:1 compression. Yes, the block was o-ringed, which helped keep the compression in the cylinders.

 

Building a long rod, 89mm bore, L20B crank engine almost always requires a custom piston. And as Mike noted above, even the open chamber heads need work to get the CR down. It is possible to use a KA24DE dished piston and then machine the tops to fit the deck height. This will drop the CR a bit, but the head will still need to be opened up. It's pretty easy to do really. You scribe the gasket to the head and remove the material inside the scribe mark. To make sure you remove the same amount of material, get a burette and CC the chambers individually to make sure they are all the same volume.

[JumboFett]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

If you build a 2.19 engine but use the 87mm bore the displacement will be 2,186cc and compression will be 11.45 to 1 with an open chamber L head. Use ARP and clamp it down.

 

19 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

FWIW - even the GT spec race engines I used to build used factory Nissan head bolts. And that's with 13.5:1 compression. Yes, the block was o-ringed, which helped keep the compression in the cylinders.

 

Building a long rod, 89mm bore, L20B crank engine almost always requires a custom piston. And as Mike noted above, even the open chamber heads need work to get the CR down. It is possible to use a KA24DE dished piston and then machine the tops to fit the deck height. This will drop the CR a bit, but the head will still need to be opened up. It's pretty easy to do really. You scribe the gasket to the head and remove the material inside the scribe mark. To make sure you remove the same amount of material, get a burette and CC the chambers individually to make sure they are all the same volume.

If we’re going full bench race in this thread, and we’re talking about an NA concept engine, here’s what I’m thinking:

87mm L-block, Z22 crank, Z22E rods, 219 head, VG30 pistons (Off the shelf forged JE/SRP with ~2.7mm shaved off the top for quench clearance and 22mm floating pins). Considering cryo and WRP treatment for the rotating assembly. ARP studs are of course a must.

Tuned Port or ITB EFI, crank trigger conversion distributor, coil-on-plug ignition, and a knock sensor, all controlled by a MegaSquirt ECU. 

I figure all of those features should allow me to safely run an 11.5:1 engine on CA91 octane. 

I already have a big aluminum radiator and a cold air intake box for my current engine, so those will carry over. 
Would this setup be better than a boosted engine? Probably not, but it would be simpler and lighter.
 

[datzenmike]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

If you build a 2.19 engine but use the 87mm bore the displacement will be 2,186cc and compression will be 11.45 to 1 with an open chamber L head. Use ARP and clamp it down.

 

Using a 219 head is not advisable. This is a closed chamber design and will boost the compression to 12.36 to 1.

 

The crank and rods are forged and not a failure point I wouldn't bother with coatings or treatments on them but the  fasteners are a failure point. Get ARP for the fasteners.

 

I would consider ceramic coating the valves, combustion chamber and piston tops to reduce heat loss and improve efficiency. Oil squirters to keep the pistons cool is also a good idea. Most KA engines have them.

[JumboFett]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Using a 219 head is not advisable. This is a closed chamber design and will boost the compression to 12.36 to 1.

 

The crank and rods are forged and not a failure point I wouldn't bother with coatings or treatments on them but the  fasteners are a failure point. Get ARP for the fasteners.

 

I would consider ceramic coating the valves, combustion chamber and piston tops to reduce heat loss and improve efficiency. Oil squirters to keep the pistons cool is also a good idea. Most KA engines have them.

Because I’ll be using an L-block do you know if machining an oil squirter modification is possible?

[JumboFett]

4 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Using a 219 head is not advisable. This is a closed chamber design and will boost the compression to 12.36 to 1.

 

The crank and rods are forged and not a failure point I wouldn't bother with coatings or treatments on them but the  fasteners are a failure point. Get ARP for the fasteners.

 

I would consider ceramic coating the valves, combustion chamber and piston tops to reduce heat loss and improve efficiency. Oil squirters to keep the pistons cool is also a good idea. Most KA engines have them.

Definitely worth consideration. I have a 219 head sitting in a box, but my U67 is already fairly built and has a .460 lift cam. I’m also already using ARP studs, so those would carryover.
The more I think about it the more I might wanna stay in the 10.75:1 range. Most of my driving will be in the midrange, and I wanna keep a nice fat street power-band.

I am still curious about the 219. Do the SSS heads flow better, do they have a fast burn chamber, or are they simply only notable for the tighter quench and large intake runners?

Edited December 12, 2023 by JumboFett

[datzenmike]

KA24DE had single at each end and a dual squirter for 2 and 3. The dual squirter must span between two cylinders. Don't know how it would be done on an L series.

Here's a single squirter from an RB20 block. This is only for the squirter not it's location.

 

 

[datzenmike]

3 minutes ago, JumboFett said:

Definitely worth consideration. I have a 219 head sitting in a box, but my U67 is already fairly built and has a .460 lift cam. I’m also already using ARP studs, so those would carryover.
The more I think about it the more I might wanna stay in the 10.75:1 range. Most of my driving will be in the midrange, and I wanna keep a nice fat street power-band.

I am still curious about the 219. Do the SSS heads flow better, do they have a fast burn chamber, or are they simply only notable for the tighter quench?

 

The 219 head has 1.5" intake ports for better flow. But this benefits more at high speeds. Smaller ports run better at lower speeds because the air velocity is higher.

 

The closed chamber head can be called a fast burn head. One, it's higher compression which promotes faster combustion and two the chamber is smaller than the bore so there is a ring around the combustion chamber that is only separated from the piston at TDC by the thickness of the head gasket. The air caught between head and piston are violently pinched out into the chamber at TDC. This promotes swirl and mixing on the combusting gasses. This in turn eliminates any rich or lean mixtures and any hot spots. The closed chamber head is much more detonation resistant. Only works best with flattop pistons.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

19 hours ago, JumboFett said:

 

If we’re going full bench race in this thread, and we’re talking about an NA concept engine, here’s what I’m thinking:

87mm L-block, Z22 crank, Z22E rods, 219 head, VG30 pistons (Off the shelf forged JE/SRP with ~2.7mm shaved off the top for quench clearance and 22mm floating pins). Considering cryo and WRP treatment for the rotating assembly. ARP studs are of course a must.

Tuned Port or ITB EFI, crank trigger conversion distributor, coil-on-plug ignition, and a knock sensor, all controlled by a MegaSquirt ECU. 

I figure all of those features should allow me to safely run an 11.5:1 engine on CA91 octane. 

I already have a big aluminum radiator and a cold air intake box for my current engine, so those will carry over. 
Would this setup be better than a boosted engine? Probably not, but it would be simpler and lighter.
 

Taking a step back - what is your end goal?

 

If you're merely bench racing, fine, but this is not an engine worth building. Short rod, small bore, it's a Z22 with an L head. Even with a smart EFI, you'd be lucky to get 200hp out of it. Take the plunge and bore it to 89mm and get some 6" rods and custom pistons. Then this is an engine worth talking about. With all your other listed parts (EFI and stuff) it should make well over 220hp.

 

Have you built any hot L motors before? Have you blown one up? ARP studs are not a must, as you say. They are nice to have, but not required for the amount of HP this engine combo will make. As I said earlier, the 13.5:1 full race motors use stock OEM head bolts.

[JumboFett]

2 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Taking a step back - what is your end goal?

 

If you're merely bench racing, fine, but this is not an engine worth building. Short rod, small bore, it's a Z22 with an L head. Even with a smart EFI, you'd be lucky to get 200hp out of it. Take the plunge and bore it to 89mm and get some 6" rods and custom pistons. Then this is an engine worth talking about. With all your other listed parts (EFI and stuff) it should make well over 220hp.

 

Have you built any hot L motors before? Have you blown one up? ARP studs are not a must, as you say. They are nice to have, but not required for the amount of HP this engine combo will make. As I said earlier, the 13.5:1 full race motors use stock OEM head bolts.

Sorry, z22e was a mistake. I meant the z20e (n85-152.5mm) rods. Still, your point is well taken. I’ve built a couple L-series top ends, but never a bottom end yet; most of my engine building experience has been with Chevy and Ford SB and BB.

My primary concern with the 89mm bore is making the cylinder walls too thin. I don’t want to sacrifice longevity for short-term performance and I don’t want to use another block if I don’t have to, so my best thinking leaves me compromising with 87mm. Also, I already have the ARP studs, so they’re getting used regardless.

My first car was a 280z, and I love that I get to relearn everything about them including smart engine designs. As always, thank you for all your advice.

 

Finally, to answer your opening question, my goal is to build a strong, reasonably reliable, hot street engine that puts as much power to the wheels while adhering to those factors. If I was to give it a number I’d say 180-200whp with a fat powerband/torque curve.
 

Edited December 12, 2023 by JumboFett

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Ok, that's better. But still, you don't really need to worry about the cylinder wall thickness on a Z22. They take 89mm easily. There is a steam port issue with those blocks, but there is also a way to avoid boring into the cylinder walls. FWIW - I've built at least a dozen of these with 89mm bore.

 

In terms of HP, I was referring to flywheel horsepower. a fully built 2300, or whatever Dave Rebello is calling them now, can make up to 240hp (flywheel) with dual carbs, on pump gas. If running throttle bodies and EFI, possibly a couple more HP, but mainly just gains in reliability.

[JumboFett]

6 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Ok, that's better. But still, you don't really need to worry about the cylinder wall thickness on a Z22. They take 89mm easily. There is a steam port issue with those blocks, but there is also a way to avoid boring into the cylinder walls. FWIW - I've built at least a dozen of these with 89mm bore.

 

In terms of HP, I was referring to flywheel horsepower. a fully built 2300, or whatever Dave Rebello is calling them now, can make up to 240hp (flywheel) with dual carbs, on pump gas. If running throttle bodies and EFI, possibly a couple more HP, but mainly just gains in reliability.

Gains in reliability and drivability are really what I’m after if I’m investing time and money into a performance build. Like, if I was a sponsored race team I’d be all about pushing the limits to the ragged edge, but I’m not, I’m just a man with a truck and a passion for sick weekend burnouts. 

Also, I’m trying to stick with my L-block, hence my trepidation on boring out to 89mm. Though, it’s probably not a big deal if I did.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Not to beat a dead horse, but you absolutely can go to 89mm. Nobody races these 89mm bore motors. They aren't legal in any racing class that I know of, so all of the 89mm Z20s, L20Bs and Z22s are street driven. It's not a crazy mod at all.

 

Ok, going 89mm on an L20B can be treacherous, but still, they're doing it.

[JumboFett]

33 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but you absolutely can go to 89mm. Nobody races these 89mm bore motors. They aren't legal in any racing class that I know of, so all of the 89mm Z20s, L20Bs and Z22s are street driven. It's not a crazy mod at all.

 

Ok, going 89mm on an L20B can be treacherous, but still, they're doing it.

Hopefully by the time I’m ready to build a hot 2.3L I’ll have collected a Z22 block rendering my trepidation moot.

 

On another note, I’ve been very curious about something else. Besides lining up timing marks with dowels why don’t we degree datsun camshafts with an actual timing wheel? There’s a lot of info in a cam profile and installation. Trusting the dowels just feels naive. 

[datzenmike]

Degree-ing a cam is just a waste of time. Using the mark on the cam thrust plate and the notch in the back of the cam sprocket is close enough for a stock engine. Nissan isn't going to do it and most owners don't care. You could be several degrees off and never know it. Now if you have some hot aftermarket cam and want to get that last couple of HP then yes get a degree wheel and set TDC. Again for everyone else close is close enough.

[JumboFett]

37 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Degree-ing a cam is just a waste of time. Using the mark on the cam thrust plate and the notch in the back of the cam sprocket is close enough for a stock engine. Nissan isn't going to do it and most owners don't care. You could be several degrees off and never know it. Now if you have some hot aftermarket cam and want to get that last couple of HP then yes get a degree wheel and set TDC. Again for everyone else close is close enough.

I do have a hot cam and I’m always hoping to maximize the utility of my components!

I take it you’re saying that degreeing a datsun cam is the same practice as degreeing a Chevy cam?