HG failing again A15 with H89 head

[rbastedo]

Everything was great over the weekend, then this morning I start up the engine and have a big cloud of white smoke and the engine running rough.

Diminished power going uphill but no overheating.

I assume I've got another HG failure in the works, thinking I'll swap in an H72 head and send this one for a rebuild.

 

Can anyone recommend a good shop for Datsun head rebuilding in the greater Seattle area?

East side would be nice but I'll take anywhere in the Seattle area if they are good and won't rob me.

About what "should" it cost?

[rbastedo]

I'll clean up one of my other heads - maybe the H72 and slap that on as a temporary.
What I should do is remove the valve covers on my two spare motors and see what heads are on them before I do anything else.
Before I try to drive home I'm going to get some "Miracle Head Gasket Sealer in a Bottle" from the local auto parts place and see if that helps at all.
Maybe I'll get two bottles.

[ggzilla]

Rebuilding s head won't prevent head gasket failures. Careful prep and torquing to pattern will.

 

Don't assume the cause. Do a compression test to prove it. If could be something else like the intake gasket or other cause.

[rbastedo]

You are correct, I will break out the compression tester first.

I felt I was being very careful with the prep and I absolutely torqued according to the pattern in the manual.

 

One question, I'm using the Fel-Pro gasket set and it says it's:

"Material: PermaTorque"

 

Anyone know what that means?

Re-torque after 500 miles necessary?

I read their product description but they give no directions.

That's the same set I just ordered again.

[ggzilla]

PT requires no retorquing ever.

[rbastedo]

Good to know.

(I should have asked this last time)

[ggzilla]

If you find the compression is under 100 on two adjacent cylinders, it suggests the gasket has blown. And that the head is ok. We can provide tips on how to prep the block for a long lasting replacement.

[datzenmike]

Was the head checked for warp before installing.

[rbastedo]

Compression results:

195

205

195

195

 

Yes I checked the head as well as I could, seemed flat.

 

I found the plugs very fouled, replaced them and was back to "normal".

The head no doubt needs a valve job, new guides and seals.

Next time it acts like this I will pull the plugs, clean or replace.

[Z-train]

Yes I checked the head as well as I could, seemed flat.

This is your problem.Un-less you have machinist's tools,you'll never "see" anything.

[ggzilla]

And it has excellent compression.

 

Now to figure out why it is running rough. Starting with the plugs may give a clue. A leakdown test and a cooling system pressure test will complete the head testing.

[rbastedo]

To be perfectly clear it is not running rough now.

It was running rough before I put in new plugs.

I agree, leakdown and cooling system pressure tests should be done.

[metalmonkey47]

Were the plugs replaced after doing the head gasket last time? 

[rbastedo]

Were the plugs replaced after doing the head gasket last time? 

 

 

Yes

[rbastedo]

Long story:

It was burning oil more and more over the past few years.

I put new valve seals on the old head but that didn't help.

Eventually (end of March this year) I pulled that head and put on the H89 that's on it now.

I just hoped for the best, cleaned it up and measured it and checked best I could for a flat surface and used a new gasket kit.

I had shoulder surgery March 10th including rotator cup and clavicular resection and am in physical therapy so replacing the head was literally a major pain.

However that got me back on the road.

Now it's going through more oil than before, I had an issue with over filling but I'm not doing that now.

I know when it's time to add oil because it stops smoking when it's more than two quarts low.

I have a feeling it's due to sloppy valve guides but I haven't been able to check.

I bought a valve spring compressor but it's too big to work with my little springs so I can't easily do it.

Using the hammer and socket method to remove the springs is an option but I didn't want to chance messing something else up until I felt better.

Maybe this or next weekend I can do that.

Also a leakdown test will give me another data point to work with.

When it's right this thing just runs so nice and sounds so good, I really want it to be right again but don't have the budget to take it somewhere and have it done for me.

So I'll do a little at a time as I can muster the ability and as my health improves.

Thanks for all the helpfulness you guys keep offering, that's really encouraging.

[rbastedo]

Here is a full size image of plugs, maybe a clue or two here.

Lined up #1 - #4 from left to right.

Clearly a lot of oil on #2 there but what causes the white stuff on #1?

 

[ggzilla]

#2 is burning oil

White stuff is normal gasoline additives

Looks a bit rich overall

 

Your head gasket looks to be fine. You don't need "machinist's tools" to check the head. That's a myth that machinists love to promote. Instead follow the factory service manual.

 

#2 probably has a torn or broken seal. You can carefully inspect it while the valve cover is off using a magnifying glass.

[rbastedo]

Thank you, I will pull the cover and take a close look.

Since it's the worst I'll go ahead and do the hammer / socket method of removing the springs and put on new seals.

If that's easy enough I'll do the rest of them too but I'll definitely get that one.

[ggzilla]

I would use the easier methods.

 

 

NAPA OHV Valve Spring Compressor Balkamp part number 7769094

 

Inexpensive too

 

[ggzilla]

See http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Valve_Seals

[Z-train]

Your head gasket looks to be fine. You don't need "machinist's tools" to check the head. That's a myth that machinists love to promote.

No myth.And I'm not a machinist.But if you want to do it again and again-then what the hell-right?

[ggzilla]

He doesn't have a head gasket failure

 

And I've never had to redo one. Changed many head gaskets, never had them fail after use.

[rbastedo]

Z-train:

Many manuals describe how to tell if your head surface is within spec and by history and practice on many different engines I've never had a problem related to this.

The one time I did have a warped head it was a 6 cylinder head off of my 1969 MGC. I could tell right away it was warped and got it confirmed and then found a good replacement.

You can do as you like but telling everyone they are basically morons if they don't do it your way isn't productive.

I may not post as often as you do on this site but I'm pretty active on the various MG and Austin Healey forums so I think I have a pretty good idea about forum etiquette and how and why to tell someone they are full of shit. Not saying you are, however it's when you tell other experienced people that not doing things your way is stupid that you will find some resistance.

 

I don't have head gasket failure, I don't have a warped head.

 

I do have oil pouring through my #2 cylinder and I need to figure that out and then I hope my engine will be back to running strong and smooth for several years.

As I said before, I appreciate all the great help I'm getting here - I'd be stuck doing things by trial and error without you guys.

[rbastedo]

I would use the easier methods.

 

 

NAPA OHV Valve Spring Compressor Balkamp part number 7769094

 

Inexpensive too

 

 

Ok, not sure how to use this though?

It's a lever and I see the U shape that will fit in between the coils of a spring but what do you fulcrum against?

[ggzilla]

Against the rocker shaft.