ATP Short Throw for B series Trans

[ATP]

I've talked about starting this thread for a while to gauge the interest for a true short throw shifter for the B series transmission.

 

I have recently had quite a few people contact me about the possibility of a B series ATP short throw shifter (like the one I make for the C series trans) so I wanted to see how many people would actually be ready to buy one? Likely the price for a piece like this could go into the $500-600 range or more depending on the custom pieces I have to make. This would be full billet, tall and very short throw. This would also get rid of the very wide neutral space that seems impossible to get around on these transmissions. It would look similar and function almost the same as my C series shifter.

 

I spent part of my day today taking apart the 280zx 5 speed I have here and I figured out how it all needs to work. I'm just trying to see if I want to make this commitment to making this product.

 

Also, there is a possibility that the most cost effective method would be to modify the whole tail shaft shift rod. Please inform me on the length differences for tail shaft housings on all the different B series transmissions.

 

Any feedback is welcome

 

 

Andrew Peterson

Andrew's Tuning and Performance

[Stupid_fast]

Be noted, the early and late model ZX box are slightly different.

 

The shifter 'ears' on the late box are taller by about 1 inch.  I can measure if you want, I have both boxes. 

 

 

I'm really interested in the challenge of making a short shifter for these gearboxes, I've seen inside the tail housing and its not easy to shorten the side-side throw.

 

Your stuff looks awesome, I'd but it without a second thought if I could afford it !! 

[SlottedMagz]

I'm in for one I'm prepping my daily for sale so I should have the dough within a month. Ill hold on to six hundo so I have cash when you release

[datzenmike]

The the 5 speed FS5W71Bs are all 31.5" long from engine mounting surface to the end of the casting on the tail. (with any dust shield removed) The only exception is a shorty 5 speed found on some later Z24 720 King Cabs. They are just a hair over 26" long.  Since the front case and the middle adapter plates are the same, the difference in the tail length and the 'striking rod' inside is about 5.5"

 

The 4 speed F4W71B are different.

 

I'm not sure this will work as some later transmissions have a neutral switch, requiring a small divot in the rod for the switch to drop into to turn on. 

[Ben280]

Just wondering if you have any new updates on this version of the shifter! I am a huge fan of your shifter for the C trans, but seeing as how I have a B trans in my car, I'm very interested in this version! 

 

Thanks and keep up the excellent work!

[ATP]

No, I haven't made any real progress on it. I have a few ideas to make it work, but have had no time to put towards this project. Hopefully I will be able to work on it some in the next few months, but I have quite a few cars in my shop right now, so time has been limited. 

 

 

Andrew Peterson

Andrew's Tuning and Performance

[datrod]

 

 

Short Throw Shifter, 2/78-78 280Z Code: 20-1054 Price: $169.95

Lot's of pieces with this one. But it works.

[ATP]

That shifter only shortens forward and rearward movement not side to side. B transmissions have some of the worst side to side slop, and if you just keep shortening the forward and rearward shift distance it make shifting even more weird and problematic as the throws are even more disproportionate. That is not what I would be designing. If I build a shifter for the B trans it will be a true short throw with both forward to rearward short throws and side to side gate movement proportionately shortened also. 

 

 

Andrew Peterson

Andrew's Tuning and Performance. 

[Ben280]

No, I haven't made any real progress on it. I have a few ideas to make it work, but have had no time to put towards this project. Hopefully I will be able to work on it some in the next few months, but I have quite a few cars in my shop right now, so time has been limited. 

 

 

Andrew Peterson

Andrew's Tuning and Performance

 

Thanks for the update! If you ever need somebody to help guinea-pig it or anything else, I would be down to help out in any way I can! Who knows, might have to swap over to the KA trans, just to use your C series shifter!

 

Glad you are busy, even if its not on cool shifter stuff!

[Dime Dave]

Datrod,

I've used the short shifter you pictured in my racecar (I got it from a friend that wasn't using it) and Andrew is correct, the neutral travel stays the same.

 

I'm glad I didn't have to buy it, the shifts crossing the H are really strange feeling. You almost travel as far sideways as you do fore and aft going between 2 & 3 and 4 & 5. 

[EricJB]

I've been scratching my head on this for awhile. Every time I think I have something sorted out, it becomes so complex, I stop thinking about it. It would be interesting to see what anyone can come up with.

[ATP]

I have a few ideas of how to make it work. The biggest problem is being able to make parts that are easily installed and also fit into the small space that Z cars have. Designing something to work in a 510 would be easier, but if I'm going to put in the effort it needs to be usable for all people in any vehicle. Compact design that functions and is easily installed is what make this shifter much more difficult. How to make it function is the easier part.

 

 

Andrew Peterson

Andrew's Tuning and Performance 

[datrod]

Datrod,

I've used the short shifter you pictured in my racecar (I got it from a friend that wasn't using it) and Andrew is correct, the neutral travel stays the same.

 

I'm glad I didn't have to buy it, the shifts crossing the H are really strange feeling. You almost travel as far sideways as you do fore and aft going between 2 & 3 and 4 & 5. 

 

I was not saying that it's a good short throw shifter, And definitely not bagging on Andrews idea. What I was getting at was that most Datsun guys are not going to spend $500-$600.

 

Trust me I've been making and selling to Datsun guys long enough to know they are cheap bastards. Myself included.

 

I had one of the short throw shifters that MSA sells on my race car. Took it off and it's in a box somewhere in the shop. I missed more shifts with that thing than I did when I was learning to drive...

 

I'm sure if Andrew builds one it will be badass.

[datzenmike]

I've been scratching my head on this for awhile. Every time I think I have something sorted out, it becomes so complex, I stop thinking about it. It would be interesting to see what anyone can come up with.

 

Aside from the gear shifts, even if the neutral gate had zero slop it needs that amount of travel to rotate the striking rod to select the next shift rod inside.

 

Your shifter is attached to the rod on the right. Moving it upward or downward shifts gears for the gate it's in such as 1st and 2nd. The rod also rotates in the neutral gate to select 1st/2nd... 3rd/4th...or 5th/Rev

 

The three rods on the far left are 5th/Rev at top, 3rd/4th middle and 1st/2nd bottom. The 'finger on the striking rod rides in a U shaped gate.

 

 

Below are the three shift rods lined up in neutral. There is no way to shorten the distance needed to move between gates.

 

Shortening the shifter length would mean your hand would travel less distance but this would also increase the effort needed to shift gears. There were some shorter shift 71B shift levers used on the zx? This is done by raising the fulcrum point of the cross pin and lengthening the shifter just below the pin. This way the shifter length remains the same and you don't have to reach for it. If you have this style shifter you can do this fairly easily.

 

My '79 zx 5 speed has the old long shift and looks like this... note the height of the hole.

 

 

I swapped the complete rear case from an '85 SD25 diesel 5 speed in that has this...

 

By using the shifter on the far right, with the longer bottom I got a shorter shift. Plus the shifter length is comfortably in easy reach beside the steering wheel. 1,3,and 5th are a wrist flick away and no where near the dash. Sure you could bend the shifter closer to you but then 2, 4 and Rev are in the seat or your knee.

 

[Ben280]

Looking at the design for his C series shifter though, he moves the x and y axis pivot points well above the existing mounts. Existing short throw shifters for the B series (like the ones you described) only move the Y axis pivot. The C series trans has the same style engagement, but the shifter box is a more manageable. I am excited to see what Andrew has up his sleeve for this! 

[EricJB]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats the same I have on my truck, I think.

 

 

 

 

It works OK except I keep killing the bushings. First stock ones, than brass, now steel. The steel ones are holding up. We do need something better though. I need something bulletproof.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[datzenmike]

Looks like you could drill the pin hole even higher if interested. You would also have to lengthen the bottom of the shifter but any raising of the fulcrum point reduces shift throw at the top. It's only 1/4"? difference between the two pictures I posted for a very noticeable change. You could go another 1/4" higher.

[Dzaster]

I'd be interested in one of these.

[Dzaster]

Back again just to say I would love an ATP for B trans.......still.

 

I was warned but since my shifter mount ears already had had additional holes drilled higher, I took about 5/8" from the top of the shifter and installed(welded) it into the bottom. While it did shorten front/back throw, side to side throw remains the same distance as stock. This makes for an awkward shift and even causes a bit of mis-shifts.