Rancher's Helper - 72 510 KA Swap

[SupDoc]

Here's my intro, in case you missed it:

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/51467-new-guy-introduction/

 

Up until now, I've just been gathering parts to get this project going. It felt good to actually turn some wrenches today. I was able to temporarily install one of Datsloco's tranny crossmember in order to see how the engine is going to sit.

I didn't have the original bolts that screw into the sides of the tranny tunnel, so took a guess that they were 10mm, but they still didn't screw in all the way. Anybody know the correct size, or where I can look it up? I plan on replacing everything with grade 8 bolts for the final install. 

Engine mount looks good on the driver side ^^^^^(aside from being previously torn - gonna replace).

But obvious alignment issues on the passenger side(too far forward?) see below:

This is causing tight fit between the pulley and the fan, way too close for comfort, as seen below.

Even worse with 2 fans in place:

Question for you KA guys.  See below, Is this how much clearance you have between your engine and firewall?  In this picture, the gap between the valve cover and the edge of that sheet metal seam is about 1.5"

Is this where your shifter aligns with the seat mounts? Does mine sit too far forward?

I'm thinking that maybe the previous owner didn't shorten the driveline far enough. 

 

Rather than stand there and scratch my head for the next half-hour, I decided to pull the gas tank so I can send it off to goichi1 to get modified for EFI.  By the way, anybody know what that amber tube on top of the left side of the tank is for?  It seems to wind around underneath the speaker tray, go into a black box, then continue on thru the bottom of the car.

Well, I didn't accomplish much today, but at least I got the tank yanked!

[rusty12ver]

Orange hose for evap, Most swaps I've seen move that brake line and distribution block. I think creepy cruiser? Modifies the engine brackets to have the engine sit closer to the firewall.

[Yakuza]

clean car..love the tan/bamboo color...

[Creepy Cruiser]

Yep, the motor needs to go back about 1/2" or so.

 

Here's how I personally do them:

 

First, remove the EGR system off the back of the motor, (the part you were pointing at, lol). You don't need it, and it won't work when using a header anyway. Then install an EGR block off plate (just a few bucks on ebay, if you don't want to build one yourself).  I do however recommend leaving all the other emissions in tacked, (if you want that cleaner look, just remote all the stuff inside the intake manifold so you can't see it)

 

Next, I rework the driver side motor mount and put a small "S" in it, (like shown). This will make it line up correctly when the Passenger side is dead on. (and definitely install new isolators on both sides, lol)

 

 

Next, slot your trans mount holes to allow it to slide back the corrected amount. (your shifter hole looks just fine already, it should move back right up to your cut as is.). Unhook the driveline from the rear when you're sliding the motor back, then recheck for correct length once the motor is in the corrected position.

 

Nice start btw.

[SupDoc]

Thanks for the advice Creepy, much appreciated. It's a bummer that I gott pull the driveshaft back out, but it could have been worse. The PO could have cut the driveline too short, in which case I'd have to buy another one.

 

BTW, are those later model KA brackets that you're using? Mine don't have that additional gusset with the two large holes.  

 

You should sell those modified brackets. I know at least one guy that would be interested in buying one, Hahaha (me).

[Creepy Cruiser]

No problem.

 

You may not have to take the drive line all the way out. I would just drop the back and leave it plugged in in the front, so you don't drip any trans oil. Then once the motor is in the correct position, check it for length. You never know, it might still fit.

 

Yep, they are 96 KA brackets. I've noticed the s13s don't have the centers in them. I put them back in because I thought they looked cool, lol, (and for the extra strength). I like everything to look as factory as possible where I can.

 

Here's the final on that particular project

 

[The Taterhead]

Not trying to thread jack but here is mine for reference.

Probably an inch between engine & firewall

 

 

Also Creepy, do you have a build thread on that car I can look through? Hope this helps a little

[Creepy Cruiser]

It's not a thread jack if it's good info like pics, lol.

 

Sorry, I'm still going thorough all the 100's of pics to put a build thread together for it. (even though the swap is all done already). I'll post it up when I get a little extra time together.

[SupDoc]

Thanks for the pics Taterhead, I'll take all the reference material I can get my hands on.  BTW, just to make sure, it looks like both you and Creepy removed the swirl control activator from the back of the intake.  Is that correct?  So the butterflies just stay open? Did you also reposition that brake line distribution block?  Seems like there is quite a bit of clearance to be gained by moving both of those things.

 

On a side note, I got to looking at my intake a little closer and realized that the EGR has already been blocked of by one of those ebay squid-style plates.  

[Creepy Cruiser]

We only use the S14 kAs (95+) here at the shop, so they don't have the intakes with the butterflies in them. (sorry, I can't help you with that part)

 

I personally don't move the brake distribution blocks, there's plenty of room where it is with the S14 intakes. (not sure about the S13s though)

[The Taterhead]

Yes i have an s14 ka as well. The brake block is still there as well

My motor mounts are identical

[///FiveOneOh]

when you remove the actuator you will also need to remove the butterflies and the rod. This will leave a hole in one end of the manifold. I simply used an NPT tap and threaded in a plug.

 

if you don't have enough extra room on the diveshaft slip joint to move the engine back(like in my case) you can always run a pusher fan. once the grill is on its ery hard to notice the fan.

 

tater, how did you mount your trans? is you engine tilted back? To get my engine level I had to take out a good chunk or trans tunnel to allow me to lift the trans tail up high enough to keep the driveline true. This also gave a much larger space between the firewall and vc.

[SupDoc]

My engine definitely looks tilted up.  I was thinking about using lower profile rubber mounts, or chopping some length off the engine brackets.  But you bring up a good point, FiveOneOh, it might screw up the drivetrain geometry.

[Creepy Cruiser]

All of our trans sit about 3/4"-1" above the original tunnel as well.

[The Taterhead]

My trans isn't where I want it yet. I will need to do a little "massaging" to the trans tunnel myself. Right now I have it mocked up but will be buying a trans mount from someone. This is how it is now.

 

 

Sorry for the crappy pic

This is the lowest part on the car right now and I am not satisfied with it. Yes the engine is tilted back a bit.

 

[///FiveOneOh]

you will definitely want to bring that trans up, the KA also drains the head through the front cover, with a rearward tilt the valve cover will fill up with oil.

[SupDoc]

Finally got my motor brackets bent up, similar to Creepy's style.  I had to go a little more extreme to get the placement that I wanted.  I might slot the brackets to lower the engine another half-inch.  After that, I'll weld a gusset on the backside of the bracket.

 

One thing I don't like is how some people, apparently, just bolt the top holes on the rubber mount to the lower holes of the crossmember mount.  That seems pretty precarious to me, as seen in the following pictures.

 

 

Doesn't seem like it would take long at all for the rubber to start ripping.  I think I'm going to build and interim plate with 3 pairs of holes that will get sandwiched between the rubber mount and the crossmember mount, that everything will get bolted thru.

 

I went ahead and installed the sway bar to make sure I wasn't going to have any clearance issues with the oil pan.

 

Here's picture of the Eibach coilovers that came with the car.  Anybody know if these would work with 280 struts, if I ever got them someday?

[hobbes_the_cat]

Yes the coilovers will work on 280zx struts when you do the swap. Same diameter.

[Creepy Cruiser]

You might want to rework those brackets a little more, so they fit back into the correct holes on the cross member mounts. You can see in the pic I posted, mine fit in the correct factory holes. Also I'd put a little less bend in that driver side mount, so the rubber isolator is more square. It also looks like you have 620 isolators (which are taller), instead of 510 isolators.

[SupDoc]

I was suspicious about the isolators I'm using because I've seen other pictures on Ratsun that looked like a shorter version.  I bought mine from Rockauto in the 510 section - Beck/Arnley Part #1040827. Is there a different part number I should be using?  I didn't really question it because they matched the size of the old mounts that were in my car.  But maybe a PO installed the 620 mounts for some reason.

[Creepy Cruiser]

I ran into the same issue when looking for a set for the swap we just got done doing.  The new Beck/Arnley ones are much taller than the old ones, so I had to hunt down a set from a different manufacturer. I'm pretty sure Beck/Arnley just thought they would just use the same mount from the one side of the 620 and just relabel it as for a 510, because it's similar and then they wouldn't have to produce another mold. They will actually work (and some guys actually prefer them because it moves the motor up out of danger a little), but I like the keep the motor as low as possible. You can slot your motor mounts some and get them back up higher on the cross member mounts in the correct holes, but the motor won't sit quite as low.

 

 

[SupDoc]

I'd like my motor to sit low as possible, too.  Do you happen to remember the part number, or manufacturer of that shorter mount?

[Creepy Cruiser]

I'll see if I can did it up. I'm sure it's in the file we kept on the last car somewhere, lol.

 

We've used "Anchor" brand ones in the past and they worked good too.