3N71B 2nd gear shifting problem

[ggzilla]

Glad to hear a coolant change fixed your running-hot problem.

 

You could also siphon transmission fluid out from the dipstick filler tube, which is probably the safest most straightforward way. Ive done that before.

[josh_t]

I'm sorta worried now. Not sure if i should do a drain and fill or not now. This stuff is a lot worse than i thought. SMH.

 

[ggzilla]

Doesn't look translucent at all. If so, replace the fluid. Put some Trans-X in.

[josh_t]

its clear as mud. lol. Can't you get Trans-X at walmart?

 

EDIT: and is there a drain plug on the torque converter? i know a few cars have them, and it'd make it a whole lot easier on me.

[datzenmike]

That's friction material from the clutch faces.. you don't want that stuff circulating through the delicate valve bodies and gears. I'd get rid of that.

 

Even deep friers get their oil changed for a reason.

[josh_t]

haha. i wanted to do a drain and fill anyways. if i can drain the converter that would be great. i wont be able to do more than one d&f to flush all the stuff out of the converter, just because of the price of the fluid, and my wallet's current status. i'm just gonna get what i can out of there as far as fluid goes, and fill it up and most likely put some of the trans x or similar stop slip/cleaning additive in with it. i can imagine that the shift solenoids hate me right now, and they probably aren't as free moving as they could be. Is this one of those things that i wont know whats gonna happen afterwards until i put the fluid in and drive it?

[Kisor]

Here is a trick, and trust me you aren't going to hurt anything by doing this.

 

Looks like you found the discharge line, get a drain pan and stick the hose in it, start it up and let it idle until you see or hear it starting to spit/bubble out of the line.

 

A few seconds of running in aerated fluid isn't goin to hurt the trans. This way gets most of the fluid out of the converter also. I know it sounds ghetto but with out a flush machine its hard to replace all of the dirty stuff. Even replacing the fluid doesn't get hardly any of the black crap out. The new fluid will have better detergents and break loose more stuff over time.

 

I would personally purge the fluid, drive it a week and pick up a new filter. Purge it again and drop the pan, change the filter and wipe the rest of the crud from the pan, (brake cleaner is good for this) then put the additive in. Lucas trans additive is magic juice in a bottle.

[josh_t]

i have seen that procedure on other forums, and since its not being driven, i dont see the harm. and it would get most of the fluid out of not all of it. and i get paid on the 27th so its got time to clean itself. and i'll be able to afford a filter and more fluid, etc. by then. i'll check/adjust the band while the filter is off too. i was gonna ask about spraying out the inside with brake or carb cleaner. i'm a stickler for everything being near spotless when i put it back together, so its common practice around here to use a couple cans on every little repair i do. I feel like the 3 bucks for a can of brake cleaner is cheap insurance against there being grit or anything left over that could cause problems. Plus it smells real nice.

[datzenmike]

Said that two days ago.

 

Easiest way to drain it to loosen one of the coolant lines from the rad cooler and let it idle a few seconds. Pour into a container and examine. It should be RED not BROWNISH OR BRICK colored. Up to you, but if you can see particles, that's clutch material that been burned off the facings, I would drop the pan and dump it out and replace. This just leaves the fluid in the torque converter. When the transmission is refilled, pull the coolant line off the rad and idle until a quart has been pumped out an shut off. (you don't want it to run dry) This is from the converter. Replace the amount removed with fresh and repeat until fresh ATF comes out. (you won't get it all because the new mixes with the old but you can flush most of it out) Carefully refill as ggzilla said 'between the lines' when warm and running.

 

By all means get an in line aftermarket cooler!!! Good idea. Heat is what kills automatics.

[Kisor]

Sorry Mike, missed that one.

[ggzilla]

It's not ghetto, it is recommended by some auto makers.

[josh_t]

its less likely to ruin your transmission than a power flush. and thats the goal here. lol. from what i've heard, a power flush is about the worst way to clean a transmission, but its a great way to kill one.

[Kisor]

I don't believe that. I've been using a RTI machine for years without any issues.

 

 

This diverts trans fluid into a catch tank and refills at the same pressure as the trans is discharging. I can't see how that would damage anything.

[josh_t]

thats not what i was thinking. is using a fluid exchanger the same as doing a power flush? i just read that using an exchanger can reveal a dead or dying transmission, i guess by loosening up junk in the "soft" parts. there seems to be two sides to every forum thread i've read so far. some say flush it, some say only drop the pan and do 3-4 drain and fills, and then change the filter. and some add changing the filter to the flush, that would seem like a derp to me anyway. i've never worked on a transmission really so i'm still scratching my head. but doing it "between the lines" as zilla said and mike reiterated seems to be the best way so far, since i dont have a machine. i guess if it does something bad after all this and the fluid was clean and at the right level, it was gonna go out anyway.

[josh_t]

i'll be changing the fluid most likely tomorrow. it depends on if i can get a ride to the parts store or not. the more i think about it and see it from different sites perspectives, the more i think its not the bands or clutches so much as it may be just a stick valve or solenoid. it takes forever to shift but once its in 2nd it doesnt slip anymore. its just as responsive as 1st and 3rd. i've gotten on and off the gas quickly and it doesnt feel spongy. it feels like its fully in gear, and thats all there is to it.

[josh_t]

i put the cleaner in and saved the fluid change for a few weeks when i can actually afford it, but now i've all but lost 2nd. it doesnt feel like it ever fully engages. and way worse with this cleaner/stop slip in it than before. i'm very hesitant and apprehensive to even change the fluid. it seems like a perfectly fantastic way to flush 30 bucks down the toilet.

[ggzilla]

$30? What kind of cleaner did you use?

 

Better to have clean fluid and no cleaner, than dirty fluid fluid with a cleaner. The cleaner is only a supplement, not a substitute for dirty fluid.

[josh_t]

the fluid is 30 bucks for the total capacity. i bought the 5 dollar transx and was gonna run it for a couple days and then put new fluid in it. i only got 3 quarts of fluid and thats about as far as my money can go right now, and thats just barely half full.

[josh_t]

i pumped the old fluid out and it wasnt hot, just warm and it was about as watery as it gets. i guess at least if i put new fluid in, i can prevent 1st and 3rd from wearing out between now and when i can really get something done to it.

[datzenmike]

Stop stop stop!!!! You're looking for a quick fix and hoping a cleaner will solve this. Borrow the $30 you could replace the fluid with new. Stop driving it!!! Dump it out and flush with real ATF before you fry it anymore.

[josh_t]

put new in it, and i put maybe a mile on it with the "cleaner" in it. the old fluid was like water. put the new stuff in. as much as it pumped out the cooler line. and it now feels like a powerglide. :( First... wait for it.... wait for it.... wheres 2nd? all of a sudden.... 3RD! i think 2nd quit its job, and now its drive this tranny as long as it'll possibly go cuz i can not afford any alternative. if it gets me stuck, we pay for roadside assistance for a reason.

[ggzilla]

Sounds like it's not gone, but it's never going into 2nd at all.

 

If that is correct, unfortunately it will last a very long time. That's what the Trans-X is for, over time it can free a gummed-up passage. If it doesn't slip, consider yourself fortunate as you can still drive it.

[josh_t]

if i put it into 2 it acts like its in neutral. no engine braking, and it only acts like its engaged once it gets to about 3500 rpms. found that out on accident. :D

[I'm BLUE]

I def do not have personal experience with these transmissions.

 

If it were me ... I would start looking for a cheaper good used trans while your still trying to diagnose.

[josh_t]

i had that idea this morning. then when i get one, i can change it the weekend following.