Last Old Norwegian 521

[wayno]

You scared me for a sec with the sump talk wayno.. lol

I'm going to do the J to L swap soon too.

 

 

You also need to drill out a piece of metal on the core support in order to mount the rad more forward.

If you look at your core support from the the engine, you'll see that there are already mounting points for the radiator under the hump of metal, I wish I had oics to show you.

 

 

I didn't think that far ahead, if I had someone telling me about all that stuff, I would get overloaded with to much information.

Right now he has a L block oilpan similar to a 510 in a country where their 521s came with a J block only, that's why I told him to grab the radiator when he picked up the engine, as the two engines are piped differantly.

Right now he has oilpan issues, I looked at my 521, and am thinking that if the oilpan he has isn't to deep, and he revearses the center link, he might clear the steering linkage, that's why I asked how deep the oilpan is, as I can measure mine to see if his will clear, otherwise he is going to have to modify his oilpan, or buy a 521/L16 equipped oilpan/pickup tube from from someone over here.

Raising the body is a pain in the ass, the frame starts to show, the bumpers don't fit right anymore, the exhaust has to be modified, a new cable needs to be made for the e-brake, all the brake/clutch lines need to be stretched or new ones made, and I am sure I am missing a lot of other things also, it's just a pain in the ass.

As DAT510 mentioned, the J block radiator core support mount sheet metal needs to be cut out for the L block radiator to mount, and the holes are there already, but they don't have the nuts welded into the core, one has to use a nut and bolt to mount the radiator.

[Conan]

 

I managed to raise the cab about 4cm yesterday. Fortunatly i only had to make a bigger hole for the steering column (unfortunatly i wont be able to drive the datsun if i gain more weight), and i got away with adjusting the set screw for the e-brake, everything else seemed to go ok, in worst case my adjustment only means less oilpan welding. Im thinking about just pulling out the J13 just to see what room i have to work with, as this is my first swap i have no idea how to make this happen from the top of my head. If my lift didnt do the trick i will weld the oil pan and if welding ends up with breaking the oilpan, i will start kissing your Wayno ass for a new oil pan :hairy:

 

If i understood your question correctly the oilpan is about 15-16cm deep on its deepest point (this is completely vertical, at the angle the engine will be sitting in im guessing it will be about 14cm deep).

[wayno]

Your oil filter on the side of the block is approximately where the steering linkage goes under the block, it looks like everything else will clear but the center link.

Here are some photos of my L block in position looking up at the oilpan and steering linkage.

From now on I will call this the "cross member", it is the cross member between the lower control arms.

This is the steering linkage, the lower bar is not on your truck, the upper bar is the only one we are interested in, I will refer to it as the "center link"

 

In this photo below, the measurement from the top of the cross member to the mating surface of the block(where the oilpan bolts to the block) is approximately 10.16cm

In the photos below, the measurement from the top of the cross member to the mating surface of the oilpan to the block is approximately 15.24cm

 

 

In this photo below, it is approximately 17.78cm from the center of the bolts holding the oilpan on in the very front of the engine to the center of the center link, this would mean that from the center of the oilpan bolts on the front, your oilpan sump must not go any farther back than 16.51cm, if it goes back farther it will hit the center link.

If the pan is not hanging down more than 12.7cm on my drivers side 17.78cm back from the front bolts holding the oilpan on, with the center link reversed(put in from the bottom), the center link will likely clear the sump.

 

I hope these measurements will help you, if you need anymore, just discribe in detail what you want measured and from what point to what point.

[Conan]

I have been giving your solution some thought, and i am starting to realize that its probably a better option rather than cutting and welding the oilpan. Tomorrow i have a day off so i will try to get the engine out so i have more room for messuring. Norway is known for overpricing just about anything, but my guess is that the machining will be cheaper than the shipping cost from the state, as well as i think doing this mod will be more educational than just ordering a part.

 

Thanks a lot for all your pics, comments and messurements, you have been a great help Wayno!

[Conan]

I think i have managed to make room for my new engine (with only the body lift). I still need to make room for my radiator, but my main concern is the tranny. The tranny that came with the L18 is a long shaft, its about 10cm longer than the j13 tranny. It seems like the bolts that attach the rear parts of the 2 trannies are in the same positions, is it possible to use my old tranny for parts to make my long shaft into a short shaft tranny? and how will i go about doing this? I have tried to search but can't seem to find out if this will be possible to do with the 2 trannies i have.

[Conan]

Nvm. It took me all of yesterday, but i now have 1 tranny with L18 bellhouse and J13 rear. Amazing how little had changed from 1969 to 1980!

[wayno]

Nvm. It took me all of yesterday, but i now have 1 tranny with L18 bellhouse and J13 rear. Amazing how little had changed from 1969 to 1980!

 

 

How did you do it?

I missed your Aug 15th post somehow, most of us would have just put the L block longshaft tranny into our truck and cut a new hole for the shifter.

I didn't know a J tranny front case could even be removed from the rear case, are J trannys are not made that way, they look like this.

 

 

Post a photo of you tranny please. :mellow:

[Conan]

Hmm mine looked like a short version of the L18 tranny, but it had a smaller front housing so wouldnt fit the L18, except for that they were almost exactly the same. I had to take both trannies apart then i switched the main shafts and rear housing, everything interchanged perfectly and i now have a short L18 tranny, meaning i wont have to make a new hole in the floor and i dont have to shorten my drive line and i dont need to make a new tranny mount, win, win, win !! :) Unfortunatly my camera refused to charge the battery so i didnt have a chance to take too many pictures of the work that was done but i will make sure to post some pictures as soon as i am done with the engine swap, im guesstimating to be done this week or next week, can't wait!!! Next mods will be to make room for the radiator, and maybe do some small modifications to my engine mounts.

[Conan]

Got my first daughter a few weeks after the last post and now 2 kids and a new house later; im back. Time has not been on my side the last years, and will unfortunately not be on my side until next year (misses works every weekend i'm off until fall), but finally I will get back on the Datsun.

To-do-list:

Cut into engine struts and weld in motor mounts (previously tried making bolt on mounts, impossible to get these in the right position without cutting into the struts)

Scrap the entire bed, and make a narrow wooden bed out of pressure treated 2x8".

Make custom exhaust, was thinking about having a vertical exhaust behind the cab. have not decided whether to use exhaust pipe or to use sections of 3" pipe welded together like an elongated muffler, and making a 90deg bend on top using angled pieces of straight pipe welded together (have this lying around, it will look rusted and rough)

Rewire all lights in the rear.

Optional: shorten steering wheel shaft.

 

Biggest concern will be getting the L18 approved, does anyone have any documentation of a model using the same brake and suspension setup with an L18 engine? In Norway they generally allow a 10% hp increase, I made the assumption that as the 521 in delivered with an L16 I can make the argument that this is a safe setup, but any documentation helps.

 

Good to be back, can't wait to get started.

[wayno]

The L18 came in the early 620 with the same kingpin front suspension that the 521 has in the USA

[Conan]

Thank you. The general rule in the Norwegian DMW is if the guys don't like your modification, they will ask you to get a confirmation from the manufacturer that the change is ok. Which in many cases can be quite difficult as no one wants to be liable for any accident. Other than that they as I understand just verify that everything is proportionate (brakes, suspension etc. vs. engine size) Did the 620 with the l18 also have the same dimension front drum brakes?

[wayno]

As far as I know yes, the chassis is exactly the same except it was metric, same drums, same steering column, although as I recall, some of the 620s had power brakes, never seen power brakes on a 521 from the factory.

Everything changed when the 620 changed over to front disc brakes.

Thank you. The general rule in the Norwegian DMW is if the guys don't like your modification, they will ask you to get a confirmation from the manufacturer that the change is ok. Which in many cases can be quite difficult as no one wants to be liable for any accident. Other than that they as I understand just verify that everything is proportionate (brakes, suspension etc. vs. engine size) Did the 620 with the l18 also have the same dimension front drum brakes?

[Conan]

Fixing the datsun never seems to go as planned, time is really an issue and i still have not figured out motor mounts. Has anyone else figured out how to mount this engine in this frame yet? Or can anyone make me a simplified drawing with some dimensions and angles that will suit my frame? I did take it for a short drive the other day with my temporary mounts and its idling at 4000rpm, had a slight brakefluid leak, but was great to see that its still alive.

[wayno]

OK, you just have to make something, connect the transmission to its mount, then level the engine in the position you want it with the motor mounts connected and hanging down towards the frame on each side, then make something solid that connects to the rail, you may have to make each piece for each side of the mount, then once tacked together and in position, remove the engine and weld it together in position, that is what I did.

I used frame mounts from a 1980 Datsun 720 4X4 that I cut off the frame, I ground on them till they fit, and then I welded them in.

[Charlie69]

Conan I have successfully put an L20B and a Z 20 in a J motor 520 and 521 chassis.  My 520 build thread documents the L motor swap and the Z20 was in a 521 and was undocumented.

 

When I set an engine swap up I make sure the carb mounting surface on the intake manifold is level.

 

Did Norway get the 720 model pickups?  that might be a source for L motor parts if Norway did get the 720s.

 

Everything Waynos has told you is correct.  I do not have a 521 L motor oil pan and pickup tube but I might be able to locate one for you.  Congrats on the baby girl!

[Conan]

OK, you just have to make something, connect the transmission to its mount, then level the engine in the position you want it with the motor mounts connected and hanging down towards the frame on each side, then make something solid that connects to the rail, you may have to make each piece for each side of the mount, then once tacked together and in position, remove the engine and weld it together in position, that is what I did.

I used frame mounts from a 1980 Datsun 720 4X4 that I cut off the frame, I ground on them till they fit, and then I welded them in.

 

As always thank you wayno. I think i will have difficulties getting the mounts. I have seen a few 2 720 for sale a few years ago on the northern most tip of the country. None of the junk yards around seem to have any, think i will have to go dumpster diving at work for scrap metal.

Conan I have successfully put an L20B and a Z 20 in a J motor 520 and 521 chassis.  My 520 build thread documents the L motor swap and the Z20 was in a 521 and was undocumented.

 

When I set an engine swap up I make sure the carb mounting surface on the intake manifold is level.

 

Did Norway get the 720 model pickups?  that might be a source for L motor parts if Norway did get the 720s.

 

Everything Waynos has told you is correct.  I do not have a 521 L motor oil pan and pickup tube but I might be able to locate one for you.  Congrats on the baby girl!

 

Thank you Charlie, i will go through your build, i have no planes of making my datsun as clean and thorough as yours, i just want my old beat up daily driver back for sunday shopping. The clearance issures you had with the firewall. Im using the same gear box that was on my J13, but with the front housing from the L18,  i have gotten the the engine as far back as i could and it nearly hits the firewall with vave cover (engine is slightly tilted as i still need to get my engine mountings right so i had figured so far that it would sort itself out once i get the engine lowered another inch, and i have raised the cab by about 4cm to get my bonnet down, but did this before bumping into gearbox clearance issues) So i take it a firewall modification will have to be made if i intend to lower it again or is this a L20 issue?

 

Seems like i will be removing the engine again anyway, so i will probably change to Twin SU-carbs prior to tackling the engine mounts and getting that to run nicely, been a while since i looked but hoping i will not have any clearance issues here. When i first decided to do this engine swap i severly underestimated the amount of clearance issues i would have. Thought it would done in a week or two hehehe

 

Both your quick replies were much appreciated.

 

 Congrats on the baby girl!

Thanks. Strange how time flies... i have two now, 2 and 3 years old..... all the work i did stripping, sanding, painting, rebuild gearbox (regret not taking pictures) etc, i did in about a month before the first one was born.... since then i have managed to install a tachometer xD... I have a 150km daily commute, my datsun repair time keeps being eaten away by having to repair my commuter and the "wifes" family car. 

[Charlie69]

The clearance issue with the fire wall should not exist in the 521.  I will see if I can round up some frame mounts for an L motor.  We will be stripping a 521 in may if I can not find some before then.  All I ask is you pay the shipping.  I will include the rubber mounts and the steel block mounts.  You might have to wait until May when we strip the 521 parts truck.

[Conan]

Ecstatic!!! If your willing, I´m ever grateful, really removes the burden of making something subpar and running into new clearance issues with everything imaginable like last time i got it in. Been "on the fence" until i could decide on a solid fix for the mounting. I have enough work to do and little spar time as the "wife" works when i don´t and visa versa, so I´m in no rush whatsoever. I hate to sound greedy here, but if its not a huge hassle and you happen to walk past a forward angles sump pickup tube sometime between now and May, let me know i had an issue with not being able to remove more sump for clearance as the sump then would hit the mesh on the pickup tube. 

 

Had to drive the Datsun out of the garage to sort out leaking oil seals on my "new" 1000$ commuter car (96 corolla) a few weeks ago, and its been taunting me from outside my living room window ever since, can´t wait to get the Datsun project moving again. Gonna drag out the kids and get started on childproofing the garage tomorrow then get to work on my "shabby chic " interior (emphasis on shabby, really do miss my humble grease smelling cab).

[wayno]

I didn't think about it when we last talked about it, but when you used the L18 longshaft transmission I guess I forgot to mention that the transmission mount needs to be lowered, otherwise you will run into transmission clearance issues, it sits to high in the rear and will hit the tunnel, also you will need to cut a new shift hole in the tunnel plate.

Here is a photo of what was on my truck when I bought it, the rear mount was lowered a couple inches, and moved back just over an inch also, the stock mount was cut off the original mount and welded to a piece of metal and mounted on the cross member.

This is the stock height of the transmission mount.

This is the height you need for your longshaft transmission.

This is what I made using a 720 transmission mount.

 

You could likely make something to work for you.

You need a 521 oilpan and oil pickup tube, you need a lower tranny mount, and you need to make or get a set of L block frame mounts for a 521 frame.

My thinking is that the biggest issue is the oil pan, the rest could be made with a small piece of 1/8th inch steel sheeting or a 2"X4"X2 foot piece of metal, a metal cutting tool like a grinder with a cutting blade, and a welder.

I make them tranny mounts out of 2X4X3/16ths wall pieces of metal, you could likely make engine mounts for the frame out of the same piece of metal, but you would need the engine pieces that mount to the block that have the motor mounts, and it sounds like you already have them, do you have a welder and a way of cutting metal?

[Conan]

I didn't think about it when we last talked about it, but when you used the L18 longshaft transmission I guess I forgot to mention that the transmission mount needs to be lowered, otherwise you will run into transmission clearance issues, it sits to high in the rear and will hit the tunnel, also you will need to cut a new shift hole in the tunnel plate.

Here is a photo of what was on my truck when I bought it, the rear mount was lowered a couple inches, and moved back just over an inch also, the stock mount was cut off the original mount and welded to a piece of metal and mounted on the cross member.

 

This is the stock height of the transmission mount.

 

This is the height you need for your longshaft transmission.

 

This is what I made using a 720 transmission mount.

 

 

 

You could likely make something to work for you.

You need a 521 oilpan and oil pickup tube, you need a lower tranny mount, and you need to make or get a set of L block frame mounts for a 521 frame.

My thinking is that the biggest issue is the oil pan, the rest could be made with a small piece of 1/8th inch steel sheeting or a 2"X4"X2 foot piece of metal, a metal cutting tool like a grinder with a cutting blade, and a welder.

I make them tranny mounts out of 2X4X3/16ths wall pieces of metal, you could likely make engine mounts for the frame out of the same piece of metal, but you would need the engine pieces that mount to the block that have the motor mounts, and it sounds like you already have them, do you have a welder and a way of cutting metal?

Im only using the L18 front gearbox housing. My old tranny was a short version of the long l18 with a j13 housing, don´t know if this was stock, but managed to change it over by removing all the internals of both trannies. It took me an evening in my parents basement on a tarp while they were gone for the weekend, had a few friends come by that laught at me for trying, but in the end i had a short L18 tranny, the tranny is now mounted fine on the tranny mounts and i didn´t have to shorten the drive train otherwise i had issues with front clearance which was what turned me off from keeping the long tranny, but as i have raised my cab abit i havent thought of if the front housing will hit my firewall if i try to lower it? Unfortunately my success here is what has kept the Datsun parked as there was no turning back after this point other wise i could have slipped the j13 in and enjoyed it while i figured out the other issues. 

 

As for the motor mounts i guess i could scavange around for some metal to make them, or i guess the term i should use is mounting points. The mounts i have don´t exactly fit the frame they mount too far toward the firewall and are too low on the engine to mount onto the struts with a rubber mount in between. I was thinking of cutting off an angle on the tip of the frame strut the j13 mounts rested on then extending that angle about 2 inches toward the firewall then add some supports to that, im just afraid it will look too homemade for the DMV guys to approve it, as i know they will check these i was hoping for a "tried and true" solution that would keep me from being the punch line of coffee break jokes at the DMV "....remember that guy that........"   

 

As for the oil pan i think im going to frankenstein the one i have as i have nothing to lose (my truck isn´t a show piece hehe), move the drain to the front, remove a huge chunk right by the pickup tube and add to the sides as the one you posted a picture of. Although getting it oil tight last time was a pain with a gasless mig and that when i only removed a small chunk. The pickup tube is my main issue here as i removed as much of the oilpan as i could and still don´t have enough clearance, i guess i could try to cut and weld the pickup tube i was just doubting the weld strength when using gasless mig on cast iron.  

 

Engine has to get out anyway, so will see where my mind is at once i get going again, easier to recall the issues i had 3years ago once they are staring me in the face again.

[wayno]

Here is what the left side motor mount location looks like, it's not really much higher than the frame rail, but to the inside of it.

I really could not get much of a photo of the right side, I have to much in the way, this is from the bottom up, you can see it is the same as the other side, just about level with the top of the frame rail but to the inside

Here is a better photo of the right side.

You can see in this photo above they are just in front of the frame piece that goes down to the lower control arm mounts, and how the mounts are lower than one might think.

By the way, I have 620 motor mounts on this work truck of mine, 521 mounts are much simpler.

Here are L block 521 motor mounts.

 

[Charlie69]

Conan I picked up a 1974 620 front frame section today that had a L16 4 speed in it.  I can cut the metal mounts off the frame and send them with the old rubber engine mounts.  I hope to be able to cut them off next Sunday.  Send me your address and I will get them boxed for a shipping price.  The early 620 are the same as the 521s.  I used the 720 L20B steel engine frame mounts on my 520 chassis and then I put a 1980 720 chassis under my 520 cab and bed.

 

When I send them I will mark them left and right.  My left is from sitting in the drivers seat looking out the windshield.

Left side is also the drivers side in the US, 

 

I will see what I can round up as far as a pan and the pickup tube.  Remember there is a gasket between the pick up tube and the bottom of the block.

[Z chopper]

What is the difference in J and L frames then?

motor mounts that are welded to the frame are different

[Charlie69]

They work just fine.  As long as he fits them to his needs they will work fine,  I have used 720 Z24 mounts cut off and welded to the 521 to run a Z20.  Zchopper you can always split a hair and say it is different!

[Charlie69]

Conan when you get these mounts bolt the rubber part to the engine brackets and to the frame mount part.  Set your motor in with with the trans bolted to it.  Set it down and bolt the trans to the trans mount and adjust it so the trans mount is not being pulled or pushed.  Check how the side frame mounts sit and fit them as necessary.  You might have to grind a little to get them sitting correctly.  On my 520 I added some pieces of steel to them to make them fit better.

 

I will take some pictures of the 520 frame mounts after Christmas.

 

With a grinder and a torch and a welder anything will fit.

 

I have done these swaps so I can assure you it works.