411 folks: Starter / alternator questions

[AZhitman]

Planning to replace my alternator with a more modern unit - Any suggestions as to which model I should go with (and maybe a link to a tech writeup)?

 

Also, planning to replace the starter. Will the H20 gear reduction starter work (Part # 23300-K9160) since I have the automatic transmission on my R16?

[ggzilla]

I recommend the bolt-in Hitachi LR135. No modifications needed.WTB IR Alternator. The plug is different from the 411, but you can use a few jumper wires.

 

But other guys like the Saturn alternator, just need to make a few mods, it is higher output and smaller. how to install a saturn alt

[AZhitman]

GG - You totally lost me in this post: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/24159-wtb-ir-alternator/page__view__findpost__p__345391

 

You took one out of a 720, but listed applications for an earlier truck and 510. That post threw me.

 

I'll probably buy a new / remanned one - Is this the same as yours? BECK/ARNLEY Part # 1860115

[ggzilla]

The "more modern unit" from a 720 is a bolt-in replacement for older Datsuns with Hitachi 35A alternator. Yes, B/A 1860115 looks the same.

 

For you 411, you may want to check the measurements to see if it is the same:

 

Diameter of body: 114mm (4.5")

Front flange (bolt ears): 13mm thick

Distance between engine-side mounting ears: 80mm

Distance between Adjustment bolt and mount bolt: 156mm

10.5mm diameter mount holes

Fan belt center: 29mm from front bolt face

Pulley diameter: 69mm

Adjustment bolt: Flange threaded for M8x1.25 bolt

[AZhitman]

Much appreciated, sir. Order placed.

 

Next up: Starter. Totally fun to get to on a 411. Bleh. :(

[MikeRL411]

Next up: Starter. Totally fun to get to on a 411. Bleh. :(

 

First disconnect the battery! Remove the air filter housing, loosen up the carbs mounting plate and rotate out of line of sight without disturbing the automatic transmission cable. Wit long enough arme you can disconnect the heavy lead from the battery, the starter pull-in lead and the 2 mounting bolts. Pull, rotate and wiggle between the carbs and the fender. If you need a new starter, good luck. I had to rebuild mine with parts supplied by Nissan from Japan 10 years ago, they were out of new and rebuilt ones and gave me a listing of all piece parts they still had. The parts listing from Nissan is useless, when Nissan converted from the paper red book to microfiche they missed the single page with the starter. I found the correct starter on the 2 liter roadster parts page. The parts people gave me a suggestd replacement which turnad out to be a 510 starter. Works in Japan, steering column is on the other side. In extreme emergency you might be able to do a "nose transplant" from the original starter to the 510 unit, the gear opening is about 90 degrees rotated and the 510 starter will hit the frame, pitman arm, steering column and just about every thing else on the left side of the chassis. Good luck!

[AZhitman]

Ugh. Thanks for the info, Mike.

 

I'm finding absolutely nothing for the starter. I'll keep searching. Would be nice to have a fresh new one.

[MikeRL411]

Ugh. Thanks for the info, Mike.

 

I'm finding absolutely nothing for the starter. I'll keep searching. Would be nice to have a fresh new one.

 

After 43 years of starting, the most likely thing needing replacement in my opinion would be the brushes. Nissan used to list separate part numbers for the positive and negative brushes, but in the updated parts list [hand written over the 1969 original] they sent me they list the positive brush as used for both applications. This is for the Hitachi starter, part number 23380-10600, you will need four if this is the problem. Alternate approach, if you have a good Mom and Pop or Tru-Valu hardware store near you they usually have a good selection of brushes in the parts drawers for drills etc. Take an old brush with you and you will probably be able to find a drop in replacement.

[HRH]

Another thing you can do is check to see if there is a starter/alternator rebuilder in your area. In Spokane we have Western States, they rebuild just about anything, usually fairly cheaply. That's where we send some people with forklift/heavy equipment starters. When we can get the industrial ones, they're mucho dinero, moreso than most guys want to pay. But we also don't offer much in reman industrial, just new.

[AZhitman]

Found a set of starter brushes... I'm gonna pull the starter and take a crack at rehabbing it.

 

I suspect the starter might not be the problem, but I'd rather eliminate it as a possibility.

[AZhitman]

New set of "WTF's"... I'm totally freakin' lost. :(

 

I have the 411 wiring diagram. It's great, except my voltage regulator wiring colors don't match those, they're not labeled with letters, and they're not in a row - they're two rows of three.

 

I know I'm supposed to cut off the regulator side of the connector and jumper the F and L wires together, and the A and N wires together...

 

Pic of new alternator and old one... New one has a couple extra "connector posts" that I wasn't planning on - I assume they're just left open?

 

 

Tell me if I have this right (on new alternator):

 

E - Ground. Straight to the chassis.

F - (or L, bottom of T connector). To IGN light in dash

N - (or S, top of T connector). Straight to battery + terminal.

A - To battery, by way of the 20A fuse in the fuse block.

 

Seems like if I do all this, there's no need to mess with the harness (4 wire connector that used to go into old alternator)... what do I do with all that?

 

I'd rather have teeth pulled than try to decipher wiring. :( I just don't think I'm cut out for it.

 

Thanks to anyone who can help.

[ggzilla]

Both have E and B - earth/ground and Battery

E & B are no different than the old alternator.

 

E - to batttery negative post. The stock datsun cable bolt to the block AND to the body (usually at the horn mount, dunno about 411)

B goes to the Battery cable by way of the Fusible link. It doesn't go through the fuse box.

 

Just hook up E & B the same way they were before.

 

 

The old ones has four wires in a bundle. New one has S&L wire.

You don't need to cut any wires.

1. Disconnect the regulator

2. Jump one of the wires to the S

3. Jump another wire to the L

[ggzilla]

You can wire the new alternator two ways. Here is one way:

* Connect the S terminal to the Bat terminal (both are on Alternator)

* Connect the L terminal (Lamp) to the wire in the wiring harness that normally goes to the Regulator L terminal.

 

 

 

More details (which aren't necessarily needed). I'm thinking yours is one of these:

* Mitsubishi 214-886 or AF2025 (25A)

* Mitsu AF2030 (30A)

This was a second OEM source to the Hitachi 25A/30A units.

 

 

The four wires on the Alternator have no markings, but should go straight to the Regulator, so you can check which color wire goes to the L terminal of the Regulator.

 

 

For comparison, here is an Hitach LT125

showing E(earth/ground) black wire

and BAT/Alt terminals (white wire)

[AZhitman]

Great info, thanks much!!!

 

Ran into a new issue with that alternator: The mounting ears are too close together - won't fit on the bracket.

 

Think I'll mod the bracket, though... I'm not interested in returning the alt, and no plans on returning to an externally-regulated alternator.