What clutch?

[Nice140Y]

Hi,

I am converting my car from auto to a 5 speed transmission.

Does anyone know what options I have for clutches to go on a

1979 200 SX transmission swap to a 1969 510 automatic.

The numbers on the transmission are 63A #3 and 5X 06 065

Are there more than on eclutchoptions for these transmissions/

Are they all the same diameter?

thanks.

[LenRobertson]

Are you doing this with your original L16 engine? L16 and L18 used a 5-bolt flywheel (L20b and later were 6-bolt, so won't work on L16). I'm pretty sure the only clutch size usable on the 5-bolt flywheels was 200mm diameter, so you are looking for a clutch to fit an L16 or L18.

 

However, the '79 SX dogleg tranny sleeve that the clutch throwout bearing mounts on that may not be the correct dimension to work with a L16/18 clutch. Either there is a 200mm clutch that will work with your TO sleeve, or you will have to get a different sleeve to match your clutch. Maybe someone here on Ratsun who knows more about this will post.

 

Len

[banzai510(hainz)]

200mm clutch.

Just use the stock 510 T/O bearing and sleeve from your 510 or order a new T/O bearing and press it off the sleeve. Put in vice and get a big socket and wack it out. then use the Vice to sqeeze it back on slowley

[Nice140Y]

Hi Len, thanks for yur help.

It is indeed a stock L16 motor amd I am putting a 79 200SX 5 speed transmission on it. The fly wheel, clutch and cover that I got with it is a 200mm set up.

I just asked about the 225mmm because I have another set up in better shape that I would like to use. it is a 5 bolt fly wheel as well. Would it work?

Or what do I have to do to make it work?

Thanks,

 

Enrique

 

Are you doing this with your original L16 engine? L16 and L18 used a 5-bolt flywheel (L20b and later were 6-bolt, so won't work on L16). I'm pretty sure the only clutch size usable on the 5-bolt flywheels was 200mm diameter, so you are looking for a clutch to fit an L16 or L18.

 

However, the '79 SX dogleg tranny sleeve that the clutch throwout bearing mounts on that may not be the correct dimension to work with a L16/18 clutch. Either there is a 200mm clutch that will work with your TO sleeve, or you will have to get a different sleeve to match your clutch. Maybe someone here on Ratsun who knows more about this will post.

 

Len

[Nice140Y]

Hi,

Right now I have an automatic. So, no T/O bearing in it.

 

Can I use the 225mm setup? The fly wheel has E30 stamped on it, if that helps id it.

thanks,

Enrique

 

 

 

 

 

200mm clutch.

Just use the stock 510 T/O bearing and sleeve from your 510 or order a new T/O bearing and press it off the sleeve. Put in vice and get a big socket and wack it out. then use the Vice to sqeeze it back on slowley

[banzai510(hainz)]

225mm flywheel that is a 5bolt? You sure cause that is a 1 year only iteam. that was from a L18 truck I believe. very rare.

 

I guess Ill let you pick what setup you want to use.

 

 

I would get all new stuff myself

[datzenmike]

225mm flywheel that is a 5bolt? You sure cause that is a 1 year only iteam. that was from a L18 truck I believe. very rare.

 

 

 

Damn Hainz, that's some trivia shit right there! Only on the Oct. '73 to Aug. '74 620 with L18 motor had the 5 bolt 225mm flywheel. If the 200mm is chewed go with the 225mm. The Nissan number is 30210 P0100 and was used on all 620 trucks through '79 and early 720s to '82. It has a clamping force of 550 lbs which is 200 lbs more than the stock L16! Go for it. You will have to change the release bearing collar as the one on your dogleg was for the 200sx 200mm clutch.

Edited November 30, 2009 by datzenmike

[Nice140Y]

I am a newbie so I am trying to absorb and understand this as fast as I can. So, please bear with me.

 

So, what you are saying is that this fly wheel setup will work, but I have to change the release bearing collar? And that's it?

I can leave the same release bearing in there, or is it better to get a new one.

This one seems fine.

 

Just curious, this fly wheel was only made that one year?

 

 

 

 

Damn Hainz, that's some trivia shit right there! Only on the Oct. '73 to Aug. '74 620 with L18 motor had the 5 bolt 225mm flywheel. If the 200mm is chewed go with the 225mm. The Nissan number is 30210 P0100 and was used on all 620 trucks through '79 and early 720s to '82. It has a clamping force of 550 lbs which is 200 lbs more than the stock L16! Go for it. You will have to change the release bearing collar as the one on your dogleg was for the 200sx 200mm clutch.

[LenRobertson]

Enrique - Just to be sure I understand what you have - you have two flywheels, both 5-bolt, one with a 200mm clutch (disk and pressure plate) and the other with 225mm clutch? If the 225mm looks in better shape, that would probably be the choice. Are the flywheel weights the same? Generally a lighter flywheel is supposed to rev up quicker, but may be one of those things you won't really notice with normal street driving.

 

There are a couple of different height clutch pressure plates for 200mm and 225mm clutches - 31-33mm height, and 43-45mm height. Set your pressure plates on a table or floor and measure up to where the TO bearing contacts the fingers, and see what heights you have. If I have correct info, the TO bearing sleeve in your dogleg 5-speed is designed to work with a 31-33mm height. If both your pressure plated measure 43-45mm, you will have to get an original 510 sleeve, just like hainz said. But I don't know what height your 225mm clutch is. If it happens to be 31-33mm, the TO sleeve you have should work (I hope). Hainz or datzenmike does this sound right to you?

 

Don't forget the pilot bushing in the tail end of the crankshaft. If there is one in there, it may not be the correct size for your 5-speed input shaft nose. And it's likely 40 years old anyway. You should probably get a new one and stick it in. I paid under $4 for one from my local auto parts.

 

Len

[banzai510(hainz)]

Damn Hainz, that's some trivia shit right there!

 

 

I learned this from Bleach(kevin) I just remembered it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nice140Y]

Hi Len,

Thanks. That is making things clearer for me.

Yes I have two complete sets (flywheel, clutch and cover) one is 200mm and the other 225mm.

I want to use the 225mm becuase it is in way better shape.

They seem to be the same weight. I can confirm that. I won't be racing this car anyhow.

I am sure the 225mm plate(cover, right) is taller than the 200mm. 45mm sounds about right. I can confirm that also.

If it is 45mm, i would need to get a new bearing sleeve? an original 510, Is that correct?

Are all years the same?

I will aslo inquire about the pilot bushing. Any part numbers Mike (parts master) lol

Thanks guys. I will check all this stuff and get back to you.

I feel like I ma getting there now.

[datzenmike]

Enrique - Just to be sure I understand what you have - you have two flywheels, both 5-bolt, one with a 200mm clutch (disk and pressure plate) and the other with 225mm clutch? If the 225mm looks in better shape, that would probably be the choice. Are the flywheel weights the same? Generally a lighter flywheel is supposed to rev up quicker, but may be one of those things you won't really notice with normal street driving.

 

There are a couple of different height clutch pressure plates for 200mm and 225mm clutches - 31-33mm height, and 43-45mm height. Set your pressure plates on a table or floor and measure up to where the TO bearing contacts the fingers, and see what heights you have. If I have correct info, the TO bearing sleeve in your dogleg 5-speed is designed to work with a 31-33mm height. If both your pressure plated measure 43-45mm, you will have to get an original 510 sleeve, just like hainz said. But I don't know what height your 225mm clutch is. If it happens to be 31-33mm, the TO sleeve you have should work (I hope). Hainz or datzenmike does this sound right to you?

 

Don't forget the pilot bushing in the tail end of the crankshaft. If there is one in there, it may not be the correct size for your 5-speed input shaft nose. And it's likely 40 years old anyway. You should probably get a new one and stick it in. I paid under $4 for one from my local auto parts.

 

Len

 

Sounds good Len.

 

Always replace the release bearing. They're only $23 and you don't want the old one buggering up in 2 months time and have to tear the tranny out... again.

 

Install a new pilot bushing in the opening in the center of the crankshaft. All L and Z series ones are the same. I have a Z24 pilot in my old L20B motor... same. Looks like a 1" piece of 1/2" copper pipe and taps into the end of the crankshaft.The 'nose' of the tranny (just ahead of the spline) fits into it.

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/L%20Z%20Heads%20and%20Motors/motorpilotbushing005Large.jpg[/img]"]

 

Len I found two 225mm p/ps and they were 45 and 45.5mm tall. I also have a 240mm and it was 46.3mm if that helps.

[LenRobertson]

Enrique - Do you know if your dogleg came directly out of a '79 SX? Did you take it out yourself? If you bought it from someone else, especially if it may have been installed in another Datsun, there is a chance the TO bearing sleeve may not be the original one. At the bottom of this page is a chart of sleeve dimensions: http://dimequarterly.tierranet.com/tech/clutch.replacement.html You really need to measure the length on the sleeve you have to try to see if it is the original SX sleeve. And to make life more interesting, it looks like there was a mid-'79 change in sleeves. But maybe someone already changed an original 510 sleeve into it.

 

The crankshaft pilot bushing I recently bought is actually a Timken part PB-22. I got it for an L20b crank, but I think it will fit an L16. If you are near a city with a bearing supply house, they may have it under that part number. Or a decent auto parts store can probably order you one for an L16. There are a couple of tricks to changing the bushing when you get to that point.

 

If you don't have one of the plastic clutch alignment tools shown in the above article, it is probably worth getting one. My favorite pawnshop had a pile of them. I got one labeled Nissan for $1. Probably can get a new one for several times that price, but you should have one.

 

Len

[Nice140Y]

Hi Len and gang,

I have some measurements and photos.

My plate that I'd like to use is 225mm OD 148mm ID and 4.5mmin height so according to the chart it should be a 30210-N3100 out of a '73 240Z or a '74 260Z

 

The To bearing sleeve looks like it's a 30501-N1601

 

However, i just realized that the clutch does not quite mesh into the fly wheel.

I am posting photos to show this.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2009 by datzenmike

[Bleach]

Jason sold me a super cheap 5-bolt 225mm flywheel when I was in need. I didn't know at the time just how fortunate I was to get it at all.

 

It grabs a lot better than the 200mm for sure.

[LenRobertson]

Yes, I think the TO sleeve you need is the 30501-N1601. Probably easiest to find one from a '73 or older 510, although the chart shows 610 and 620 with L18 using 43-45mm pressure plate height, so I suppose a sleeve from one of those will work. But measure what is in your trans to be sure it hasn't already been changed to the one you need. If you can't find a sleeve where you are, try a Wanted ad here on Ratsun. Maybe someone has one they will give you for the cost of postage.

 

In your first clutch pic, it looks like maybe you have it upside down to the flywheel. The second pic looks like the correct orientation, unless the disk has springs on both sides. But I'm just about to fall asleep, so I might be missing something.

 

If you have any way to weigh the 225mm flywheel before your install it, I'm curious what the weight is. Doesn't really matter, if it is a hassle to weigh it, don't bother.

 

Len

[Nice140Y]

Good Morning Len,

This is a picture of the other side of the clutch (flat side)

Which side faces the plate? The springs can be seen from both sides.

Yes, I measured the sleeve and it matches the dims. for that part number, but i sthat the one I need for the bigger clutch (225mm) remember that this sleeve nad bearing came with the smaller clutch and transmission.

I have sent an email to find out if the transmission was previously installed on a different Datsun to see if maybe the sleeve and bearing were already changed and I may not need a new sleeve, just a new bearing.

 

Is there a way to see if thi swould work by measuring and trying to place them in the bell housing before actually taking off the old automatic transmission to match it up?

 

 

 

Yes, I think the TO sleeve you need is the 30501-N1601. Probably easiest to find one from a '73 or older 510, although the chart shows 610 and 620 with L18 using 43-45mm pressure plate height, so I suppose a sleeve from one of those will work. But measure what is in your trans to be sure it hasn't already been changed to the one you need. If you can't find a sleeve where you are, try a Wanted ad here on Ratsun. Maybe someone has one they will give you for the cost of postage.

 

In your first clutch pic, it looks like maybe you have it upside down to the flywheel. The second pic looks like the correct orientation, unless the disk has springs on both sides. But I'm just about to fall asleep, so I might be missing something.

 

If you have any way to weigh the 225mm flywheel before your install it, I'm curious what the weight is. Doesn't really matter, if it is a hassle to weigh it, don't bother.

 

Len

[LenRobertson]

The flat side of your clutch disc should go toward the flywheel. Try it and see if the pressure plate looks like it will bolt down okay.

 

I'm pretty sure the TO bearing will be the same for 200mm or 225mm clutch. It is possible your TO bearing is usable, and you won't have to replace it. You said you might be able to contact the previous owner of the trans and get some history on it. Maybe you can find out if the TO has been replaced in the last few years. However, if the bearing has much wobble, or sounds dry when you spin it by hand, better to go with a new one. Of course, I've worked on farms most of my life, and we usually run bearings until they start smoking, or the balls fall out. Maybe not the way you want to treat your 510. I'm sticking a dogleg in my 510 right now. The TO bearing looked good enough to me that I'm going to run it. Look forward to my public confession next summer when it starts howling and I have to put a new one in.

 

There should be a way to measure the position of the front of the TO bearing relative to a straight edge across the front of the bell housing, when the slave cylinder is fully extended. If I get time, I have a 4-speed from a '72 510 I can measure. It should use the same sleeve you need to use, and the pressure plate height should be the same. What I'm not sure about is exactly where the extended position on the slave will be. Maybe when I look at it I can figure it out.

 

Len