1959 dream engine? (new thread title)

[fisch]

Interesting info on the B-series twincam. VIA wiki. The dates sure line up right. And I like that the carbs are on the passenger side.

 

"A high-performance Twin-Cam model was added for 1958. It used a high compression (9.9:1 later 8.3:1) DOHC aluminium cylinder head version of the B-Series engine producing 108 hp (81 kW; 109 PS) (100 bhp (75 kW; 101 PS) in the low compression version).

 

The temperamental engine was notorious for warranty problems during the course of production, however, and sales were poor. Ironically, the source of the problem was only discovered after production had ended and many restored Twincam cars are running more reliably today than they ever did during production. The Twin-Cam was dropped in 1960 after 2,111 had been produced."

 

I wonder what the problems were? I will have to dig more. So did anyone ever put this on an a-series mag?

 

[MAG58]

I've suffered the slings and arrows of entirely too many BLMC motors to count.

 

Once you figure out whether or not you want to keep the little dude and what you wanna do with it, we'll get on the ball. Depending on the head design, I may have a 45DCOE Weber and gooseneck manifold sitting in the garage for it.

 

And I don't really think so on the MGA twin cam head. Guys like Morspeed have made the K1200 head pretty simple and you can get silly power with them, so they seem to be the trend.

[fisch]

Ha ha! more on the MG a twin cam.

 

"It was a leaking, piston-burning, plug-fouling nightmare of a motor that required absolute devotion to things like ignition timing, fuel octane and rpm limits, less the whole shebang vomit connecting rods and oil all over the road. Many years after the engine was taken out of service, it was discovered that the problem lay in the carburetors. At certain rpm, resonant frequencies would cause the fuel mixture to froth, leaning out the fuel and burning the pistons. I've never had any such trouble with my iron-block, pushrod, lawn tractor engine. I'm just saying."

[Icehouse]

Why reinvent the wheel, just get a Hayabusa engine in there if you want a high reving engine. I think Hybrid engines are cool but the dual over head cam 4 banger has been around since 1913 and these guys are saying there isn't a good enough one so they have to mix and match parts?? Just my opinion.

[b210in]

how about a carbed fj20, still a nissan and a lot of uniqueness.

[Braden]

how about nissan turbo diesel?

[fisch]

Once you figure out whether or not you want to keep the little dude and what you wanna do with it, we'll get on the ball. Depending on the head design, I may have a 45DCOE Weber and gooseneck manifold sitting in the garage for it.

 

If I could get the stock engine anywhere near 90-100hp I'd love to keep it in the bay! But being 37hp I thought that would be pretty hard.

 

Ooooo 45dcoe! Yummy! Does the goosneck manifold angle the carbs up so they can clear the master cylinders?

 

I'd love some measurements on the FJ and Turbo diesel! I just assumed from looking at photos that of the FI engines the CA would fit the best. But am not sure. The measurements of the CA16 was almost a match! So it seemed like a logical choice.

[MAG58]

Why reinvent the wheel, just get a Hayabusa engine in there if you want a high reving engine. I think Hybrid engines are cool but the dual over head cam 4 banger has been around since 1913 and these guys are saying there isn't a good enough one so they have to mix and match parts?? Just my opinion.

 

Because putting a honda, vaux, or any standard (by today's terms) 4banger in a Mini would require making a custom subframe (though some companies make them now), sectioning the body, stretching the nose 2-4 inches, and then the rest of the headaches that come with the lovely all popular engine swaps (including partially tube-framing the front with any horsepower since you just cut off the front stressed member of the body). Bike motors are even more of a bitch since a system has to be rigged to create a reverse, and if you want it rear drive you get the opportunity to do major surgery to both ends of the car, and not like cut a hole and add some of skib's 500hp duct-tape surgery either.

 

At what point is re-drilling a block, bolting the bitch up, and throwing a timing belt on it no longer re-inventing the wheel when those tasks are ahead of you?

 

 

THAT SAID.

The gooseneck is elevated to clear the speedo in a mini.

 

My A series 1275 runs a VERY mild cam, a VERY mild tune in my SU and probably 8 degrees of static timing, and still makes 80hp (Hey, it's good for a 1400lb car) with a 1200-6k power band. I'm sure if you find an 1800cc crank (I'm pretty sure they're pretty common given the fare they were stuffed in) and rods and have a bitchin little motor that would probably make easily 4+ times what your little 1000 makes. And mine still gets 33mpg beating the ever loving hell out of it through town.

Edited December 1, 2009 by MAG58

[datsunhead]

keep an eye on your oil pan to i beam distance.its the tightest clearance trying to fit an l18 into your 59.also limits suspension travel when your i beam crashes into your oil pan.found that the hard way.

[fisch]

keep an eye on your oil pan to i beam distance.its the tightest clearance trying to fit an l18 into your 59.also limits suspension travel when your i beam crashes into your oil pan.found that the hard way.

 

Good to know! Were you running a l-18 from a 620? The L-16 oilpan from a 521 is suppose to have more clearance. Wonder if it would help?

 

If I did go CA, I would have to see about a rear sump oilpan. I think I read there is one. Or have one fabbed?

[Dime Dave]

Scott,

All this talk about engine swaps with 4X or more power increases and nothing about upgrades to the brakes and suspension kind of scares me.

 

I would venture a guess that the OE suspension on the 59 in pristine condition was at its limit with the 37hp stock engine . Putting much more into the car and it will be like like mounting a Hayabusa engine on a Razor scooter. (sketch that one out for a laugh)

 

I would look at an A14/15 Datsun engine.

 

My 1200 racecar has an A15 and without the restrictor it make 156whp. I would think a street version could get to 100whp without too much trouble.

 

My A15 long block weighs 176# so it would be a good swap into your car.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Dime Dave

[fisch]

Thanks Dave. I appreciate the warning! And totally worth discussing. You know more about this stuff than I ever will. We are just exploring the possibilities.:D But on that thought train, I actually have a deal in the works with Mklotz to build disk brakes for this '59! So stopping shouldn't be a problem.

 

I do worry that the rearend won't be up to it, but there are options out there. I have to dig deeper, but cosmetically it looks like later truck differentials might swap. We could also get into narrowed currie stuff.

 

The frame is partially boxed already from the factory.

 

The front suspension looks like it was built for a tractor! (And it will probably handle like a tractor too!) Solid Ibeam axle with parallel leaf springs and a swaybar. The car was designed to survive the pot hole stricken back roads of post war tokyo. It actually won 1st in class at a pretty massive rally race in australia back in the 50's. But I think Purple had to sleeve his tie rod when he was running the stock suspension.

 

I can't imagine it will ever hang in the corners very well. But do you think it would be any worse than any nostalgia hotrod? Especially if we keep the weight of a new engine pretty light? (I am not a crazy driver. I don't really speed more than 5-10 above the limit, but I do like to get up to the speed limit as quickly as I can.)

 

And I wouldn't kick an a14 or 15 out of bed either! I had no idea they could be so peppy!

 

-At the moment I am liking the notion of hopping up the engine in the car. I didn't realize it had any potential till MAG said something.

 

-In a dream world the BMW head-swap would be crazy cool, but it looks like that is a 5k endeavor from what I have been reading.

 

-For a modern drivetrain, I like a CA turbo. It is a really light engine (the lightest post 80 turbo?) that seems to be about the same size as what is in the car.

 

If I could find a nice A14 or 15, I'd certainly think about it! I think purple runs a A15 in his.

 

Of course we are still in the dream stage. It will be a while before I am ready to commit!

[fisch]

Ok so this is interesting. They are making crossflow heads that fit the british b-series engines. They are used alot in MGBs. There is a chance that this head will bolt up to the c-engine block in the '59 since it is based on the b-series engine!

 

However in searching for books on how to rod your b-series engine, I found one that mentioned that it covers every B EXCEPT the old style 3-bearing crankshaft b-series. According to the manual, guess what I have? A 3 bearing crankshaft.

 

Do you guys know anything about why they might not mod the 3 bearing?

 

I've joined a british forum to start learning, and have asked those guys some questions. AngliaGT is a member over there so it was nice to see him!

 

Mag, I've ben thinking about that DCOE, what should I look for on the head to know if the gooseneck manifold would work?

 

Some pics of the cross flow. Could be a neat way to retain most of the original engine. If it would work!

[MAG58]

They're just not as beefy as the 5 main motor. For your horsepower goals you shouldn't worry about a 3 main motor. At lots of RPM's (7k+) some of the stroker guys show that the B-series motors could have some crank flex, but I doubt you're gonna run a snarling monster of a motor in your lil' datto. And to see if it'll fit, I just need to know what kind of spacing is on the head (not sure if it's different from a BLMC flange). And paruzing some ebay auctions, it looks like you can score the 1800cc crank and rods/pistons for 200 bucks or less. Not bad for nearly double the displacement?