'76 and '77 280Z (2 into 1 build)

[Steve521]

I just recently acquired a '76 and '77 280z and am super excited to build 1 good one out of the 2.  I posted the story behind these in the stories section called "Re-introduction and stories" if anyone wants to hear how I acquired them.

 

After some conversations with my brother (the one who owned them before me), I finally know all I can know without teardown about both of the cars.  Yes I will be posting pics as soon as tonight.

 

The '76 was orange from the factory but has had a quick and not very thorough blue repaint.  It has a black interior and unfortunately a sunroof.  It is also a factory A/C car.  Unfortunately the car was wrecked in the right rear that buckled the quarter panel a little and tweaked the main body structure but only to the back of the door.  It was hit in the bumper area so all the main tail light area is fine.  I am REALLY wanting this car to be the donor car for my project but there are so many unknowns at this point.  If it doesn't have too many rust issues, I think it would be smart to have the body structure straightened and have a new rear quarter put on it.  Everything is together on this car and from what I understand, the only reason it was sold to my brother as a parts car was because it was wrecked.  It may still have a good engine and trans. in it.  I guess I probably should ask him if he ever heard the car run ... haha.

 

The '77 is a dark green (factory but very bad original paint) with a tan and black interior (no sunroof).  It is not an A/C car but is a 5 spd.  It is a pretty straight but seems quite rusty body with the exception of a good size dent in the R/F fender.  My bro told me that he bought the car quite some time ago running/driving and drove it for a while.  He said it ran really strong and that the engine has been rebuilt and the car has had suspension work done.  Unfortunately this Z doesn't run either but supposedly if I put the newly cleaned and resealed fuel tank in it and a new fuel pump that's provided, it should run and drive again.  Apparently he had a friend with a shop ready to put the tank and pump in but they closed down ... possibly one of the reasons I have the Zs now.

 

The plan:  After much thought, I've come up with the plan to get the green '77 running by re-installing the fuel components needed to do that, then somewhat leave that car alone until I can start really sripping down the '76 to inspect it for rust and any other possible deal breaker issues.  If the '76 is a good enough donor car, I will put the engine and trans from the '77 in it if I feel that the engine in the '77 could be better then I will see if I can find someone that is affordable to pull the body structure/frame back out to specs.  Both cars are complete (at least mostly) so it's just a matter of determining which one is best to build. 😉

 

I guess I'm going to a 3rd party photo hosting site to get some pics up so you can see them.  Any input is welcome on this build!

Edited May 4, 2023 by Steve521
Rewording a couple of statements and changed title to include "280 Z"

[sick620]

We need those pics! You can post pics here with the add files button. It’s easier to do that on iPhone in my experience because it lets you do an automatic resize and upload them. Otherwise on pc you have to use Microsoft paint or some other program to resize them usually before you can post em.. i suggest figuring out how to do it on here vs a 3rd party site, but I’m still bitter about photobucket messing up all the project threads on here by deleting everyone’s photos or adding watermarks over them. 

[Steve521]

Thanks!  Getting to it now 🙂

[Steve521]

Will load more but here's a few pics.

[datzenmike]

Dem bumpers gotta go dough.

 

I'm no good with body work so I would pick the best body and pick the best mechanics and swap them in. It's just wrench turnin'.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The 280Z bumpers were disgusting, but in racing form, the body kits they used made them look cool.

 

I realize this is a ZX, but you get the idea.

[Steve521]

100% agree with the bumpers ... can't stand them!  They will not stay on for long but since I'm not driving them now and one will be covered up, I'll probably focus on other aspects of the tear down and inspect first.  Gonna see if I can maybe get the green '77 started this week.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Yes, running, then driving, then cosmetics.

 

A car that's been sitting for a long time - start with the electrical so the engine will crank and fire, then pull the plugs and crank it until it has oil pressure. Then move to the fuel system (completely new hoses and flush, new filter, blow out the lines, etc), then see if it will run. Should probably change the oil and filter too.

 

Once they run, I let them sit at idle to cycle the cooling system (to make sure the thermostat opens and closes). Once that is established, I let it idle in front of the shop while I do something else.

 

Then I work in systems -

1 - suspension

2- brakes

3- exhaust

etc

[Steve521]

12 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Yes, running, then driving, then cosmetics.

 

A car that's been sitting for a long time - start with the electrical so the engine will crank and fire, then pull the plugs and crank it until it has oil pressure. Then move to the fuel system (completely new hoses and flush, new filter, blow out the lines, etc), then see if it will run. Should probably change the oil and filter too.

 

Once they run, I let them sit at idle to cycle the cooling system (to make sure the thermostat opens and closes). Once that is established, I let it idle in front of the shop while I do something else.

 

Then I work in systems -

1 - suspension

2- brakes

3- exhaust

etc

 

Thanks for the advice and yes that is the plan for the green car.  I've been reading up on and watching videos on all the Z diagnostics for no start and running rough plus I work at Nissan where I could ask 2 of the techs that used to work on them when they were being serviced/repaired at the dealership.  I have about 30 years of technician experience but haven't worked on many classic vehicles let alone Datsuns so I definitely appreciate any input because it definitely helps!  I'm taking a slightly different approach to the blue/orange car though because since the green one is sooo rusty, I'm hoping the blue one won't be as much so I can use that car to do my build.  I'm going to leave everything that has to do with running and driving the car in it but basically tear down anything that gets in my way of seeing rust issues (i.e. interior pieces).  I have to determine whether I have a good platform to build on before I do too much imo.  Thanks again for the help. 🙂

[Steve521]

So, pretty much the first thing I did on the blue/orange car other than scrub the dirt off of it after getting it home is get the passenger window up.  We rolled it down when we loaded it on the trailer and then it did not want to go back up even with someone trying to help.  So nothing exciting in the pics ... just door panel tear down, loosen every possible guide, regulator, etc. and practically force the window up ... won't be rolling that window down anytime soon.  The green car has no window (broken) on driver's side so that's why it's in the garage but mainly because it was the first car towed home. 😉

[sick620]

those cars are in pretty good shape. Look forward to watching this. 

[Steve521]

Sorry, no more pics yet but there will be this week.  I wasn't able to play around with getting the '77 running this weekend because it was my youngest daughter's Bday and Easter on the same weekend but I did have a good friend that worked with me in the parts dept. at Mazda when I worked there, come over and look over the cars to give me a second opinion on what direction to take with them.  As we started looking over the green car, we noticed that even though there is a lot of outer body panel rust, there isn't much structural at all.  Looks at this point, seem to be deceiving for the green '77.

 

He helped me think about the fact that the blue Z would be a reconstructed title, and it would cost me a lot to have the rear body damage pulled and to put on a new rear quarter panel on it along with any rust repair needed.  I started thinking, yeah and the green car does not have a sunroof which I don't want, already has, from what I've been told by my bro, a good strong rebuilt engine and some suspension work done to it not to mention, pretty much all the outer panels that need replacing including a good hatch, both front fenders, etc. and a decent black interior which I would prefer are on the blue '76.  I could also possibly use the shorter shifting 4 speed for my 521 as well (maybe).    And finally the '76 would provide, most likely, anything I need for re-installing the newly cleaned out and sealed fuel tank in the green one.  So far, it's making more sense now to build the '77 and use the parts from the wrecked '76.

 

Anyway, I am off on Thur. (extra day off) so I will be closely inspecting the '77 and posting pics by that evening.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I would also want the car with no sunroof, but I also know what it takes to repair rust.

[Steve521]

Sorry, still no pics ... just too tired tonight to upload them but I have been very busy with the Zs.  I cleaned out all the junk from the interior, removed the louvers so I can sand and paint them satin black, put the back of the car on ramps so I can access any parts I need from the fuel tank, removed and cleaned up the uncracked intake air tube and put a new car cover over the blue one.  I removed the front bumper from the green one, removed the spare tire to assess how much rust I'm dealing with back there, tried to start the car with just some carb cleaner, removed the wide open ripped air intake tube and got the whole car up on stands in the garage because when I tried to start it, it did (ever so slightly want to fire) so since I found a new delphi fuel pump in the car and have some of the parts for the newly cleaned and sealed fuel tank, it's time to put it all together and see what happens.  Many pics coming tomorrow of what was talked about here. 🙂 

[Steve521]

So I was reminded of an important lesson today which I should have already thought about ...  Do your research on a car your not familiar with before you take it apart.  I literally pulled the whole fuel tank out of the '76 blue car with hoses in tact since some of the ones for the green car have been cut and found that absolutely nothing is the same between the 2 tanks. 😐  I also pulled the fuel pump assy. from the green car so I can put it together with the new delphi unit that was in the car.  The sending unit is missing for the green car but other than that, I might have to replace some hoses to the tank for the green '77 when I put the tank back in.  As promised here are some pics of these adventures. 😉

Edited April 16, 2023 by Steve521
re-worded a few things

[Steve521]

Continued from last post ... more pics

 

Upon closer inspection of the front bumper, it looks like the core support or some other part of the front structure might be damaged due to the bumper brackets not being centered from the dent on the R/F.  Now, to find a sending unit so I can reinstall the gas tank for the green car.

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

One old trick to suck the stock bumpers in a bit more, was to puncture the "shock absorbers" behind the bumpers and push them all the way in, then tack weld them in place. We used to do this on VW Rabbits, BMWs, even my '82 Buick (if memory serves...)

 

For cleaning, which is very important to me, I have developed a few methods of getting rid of years of grime. Believe it or not, gasoline. Soak that cruddy crap in a 5 gallon bucket of gasoline for an hour. Scrub it gently and presto. Wear a mask and do it outside.

 

For painted surfaces, like under the hood, spray everything down with Purple Power, let sit for a couple minutes and pressure wash. I even do interiors this way. It also works wonders on dash and HVAC components. If your carpet is usable but dirty, hang it up and spray it, then pressure wash it, then let it dry in the hot sun for a day or two.

[Steve521]

Well, I worked all through the weekend on getting the '77 green Z running.  I managed to get it to run about 5 seconds several times but it would not stay running no matter what throttle position it was in.  I will load pics tomorrow after work.  The tank, new aftermarket fuel pump and fuel filter are now installed. 🙂  Oh and the back bumper is removed as well.

[Steve521]

Here's some pics of the work I did last weekend.  As a do it right or don't do it at all type of person, my mind was somewhat tormented by having to do some half way jobs because at this point, I'm just trying to get it running and driving before I start restoring it little by little.  For example, I cleaned, prepped and painted the top of the fuel tank but not the bottom.  Anyway, as stated in the post above, it ran for about 5-8 seconds several times so I need to check the fuel pressure first to see if it's getting enough fuel.

I'm still fighting the L/R bumper bracket but know what I need to do this weekend to make that happen. (yes I will be removing the 280z flap) 😉

[Steve521]

Haven't posted in a while but I do have an update (pics to follow ... this weekend).  I have finally after a few weekends worth of work, cleared out and organized my garage so I can have clean and open space to work on the Z.  Now the green Z won't start at all even with spark and good fuel pressure.  I have it diagnosed as far as the fact that there is no injection pulse (there is power to the injectors but they are not grounding (probably through the ECU)).  I have found out that even though the '77 and the '76 are within the year range that makes both EFI systems pretty much the same with one exception.  The '76 blue Z is a California emissions car and the '77 is a federal emissions car.  That does make the the swap of just the ECU to test it not possible but there's hope to get the '77 running with very little money spent.  Last weekend, I figured I should try to start the ' 76 Z so I did with just some starting fluid.  With full engine oil, it did run but rattled just like a bad rod knock but I tested for injection pulse and it was present!  This means that since the EFI system in these cars is stand alone, I will just pull all of the California emissions system (sensors, injectors and wiring) from the '76 and install them on the '77.  I know the '77 runs on starting fluid and I know now that I have good fuel pressure because I installed an inline gauge so hopefully this EFI system swap will get it running!  Like I said though, I'll post pics this weekend ... probably tomorrow. 

[Steve521]

A little late on getting the pics posted but better late than never.

 

Adding to my last post, I've pulled both the EFI wiring harnesses out of both Zs and in comparison there are a few differences connector wise (enough that I don't want to try and figure out how to make the '76 harness work for the '77).  I found a couple "not great" grounds and such when pulling the '77 harness and the harness looks really good (no damage) so I guess, as much as I hate diagnostics, I will clean up all grounds/connections, re-install the original harness and hit the troubleshooting schematics/diagrams.  When I saw that both ECM's have the same part #, I really just wanted to plug in the known good one from the parts car '76 but since there are so many more pins on that one, I decided not to.  I will re-install the harness this weekend and start the diagnostic process and hopefully have some answers soon.    

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Making progress!

 

I like to give the harness a good wash. For the majority of the harness, I'll spray it down with Purple Power and then scrub it a bit before hosing it off. In the cabin harness is usually clean enough to not require scrubbing, but engine bay parts are almost always grungy. Then, for the terminal ends, I'll spray those with Krud Kutter metal etch. This gives them a new coat of clean by removing all the green scale buildup. Be sure to hose that off and even neutralize the acid if you're worried about it.

[Steve521]

Thanks for the tip!  I will probably get the harness put back in today after close inspection and cleaning as needed then start testing.  I so badly just want to get the '77 running so I can start planning the rest of the repairs for the car.  My bro said that the car ran really good up until it didn't run at all.  My gut tells me its an ECM problem because after a lot of research into the fuel injection system, one of the most common issues is the battery terminal grounding against the body which sometimes fries the ECM and or other components and well, there's no battery hold down in the '77 and nobody had done the reversed terminals trick.  We'll see after diag I guess ... I just hate performing diagnostics. 😉 

[Steve521]

It's been a while but I've been busy helping others with their cars, working on the Zs and working at work.

 

This is a big update but unfortunately, I have to post pics tomorrow night which I will because I have them 🙂

 

As you can see from the previous post, I needed to hit the diagnostics road.  Well, I found the problem and the '77 car runs and drives now.  (have only driven about 3/4 of a mile to the gas station but it ran and drove pretty good/smooth).  What I found was that there was no power to the ECM at ECM connector terminal 10 which I found later is because of some wiring problem between the ignition switch and just before the main relay.  It's supposed to have 12v so I used my power probe to give it 12 volts which made it run.  I still have to trace the wire problem but for now I have a wire jumped from the ignition switch to the connector before the relay.

 

The other project I worked on was replacing the driver's side broken window by trying to use the one out of the '76 blue car.  Unfortunately, I continue to run into the fact that '76s and '77s are very different in parts even though they look so similar so the glass wouldn't work.  Anyway, since I plan on putting all of the body panels that unbolt on to the '77 green car, I went ahead and bolted on the '76 blue driver's door even though it doesn't latch currently because the latch mechanism is of course completely different between the 2 cars.

 

Pics will be uploaded tomorrow night.

[Steve521]

Here are the pics!  I don't really have any of the diagnostic work.  The other thing you'll see in the pics that I didn't mention is the wheels I test fit.  These wheels were given to me by a friend that I was going to put on my Miata.  They came with too large of a tire (BF Goodrich comp T/As) for the Miata so I was looking into a different size for that car.  The wheels were pure gloss black when I received them but not painted good so I'm working on stripping them down, painting the whole wheel satin black except for the lip which I will polish.  Anyway, with spacers, I believe with the BFG tires, they should fit the Z at least for now and look pretty good.  The lug pattern is right but the wheel would hit the strut and not go over the hub without spacing.  My next move is to try to figure out how to mount the door lock striker mechanism from the '76 to the '77 and finish diagnosing and repairing the "no power to the relay" issue.  Oh and I forgot to mention that I realized that I remembered that I had a broken door handle on the blue '76 driver's door after I reinstalled the window so I had to take it all apart again.  Of course the regulators are also different between the '76 and '77 🤨