720 Dually Front Wheel Hub Swap or Adapter?

[bluexl]

Hey everyone. I am new to the forum and to Nissans in general. We have a 1984 Nissan 720 Sunrader Dually rear with the full floating rear axle on a 84 720 4x4 Chassis . We are wondering if there is a way to run a dually wheel in the front to avoid having to carry 2 different spares. The dually wheel is a 6x6.5 pattern and the front hub is the standard 6x5.5 pattern. Does anyone know if we can use a hub from a donor dually rear axle in the front to run the same sized dually wheels on the front of the vehicle? If not we did find some adapters. If the adapters are the only route to go, how thick of a wheel adapter would be needed? We found a  1.5" thick 6x5.5 to 6x6.5 adapter, but not sure if the 1.5" thickness will suffice. I am running 27x8.5R14 Tires.

 

These are the adapters we found: https://billetwheeladapters.com/6-lug-wheel-adapter-6x5-5-to-6x6-5-1-5-thick-833.html

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

 

[datzenmike]

The rear is a solid axle. I don't think there is a hub that the front 4x4 axle will fit through and it won't fit the steering knuckle.

 

I've always assumed the dual rim 720s had the same lug pattern as all other 720. This is a 4x4 so maybe thy found some other than Nissan rims to make it work. Maybe the rears need to match the fronts not the front's match the rears???

 

There's a guy here (wayno) who knows way more about the dual axles, having put them on several trucks. I'm sure he'll find and answer in the morning.

 

 

[bluexl]

 

20 hours ago, datzenmike said:

The rear is a solid axle. I don't think there is a hub that the front 4x4 axle will fit through and it won't fit the steering knuckle.

 

I've always assumed the dual rim 720s had the same lug pattern as all other 720. This is a 4x4 so maybe thy found some other than Nissan rims to make it work. Maybe the rears need to match the fronts not the front's match the rears???

 

There's a guy here (wayno) who knows way more about the dual axles, having put them on several trucks. I'm sure he'll find and answer in the morning.

 

 

Thank you for the response. I thought they were the same 6 lug pattern as well. It wasn't tille I tried fitting them on that I saw they were different and then researched the 6x6.5 size. I found 2 Nissan Dually wheels at the local Pick Ur Part and brought them home in hoping that this can be done. Hopefully Wayno will chime in. Thank you again. I sincerely appreciate the input.

[datzenmike]

I left him a message to check in.

[wayno]

The Nissan 720 cab/chassis dually never came with dually wheel brakes on the front like the Toyota dually did, possibly an adapter could be made to fit a dually wheel but I have no idea if it would clear the brakes.

I actually had a set of adapters made to put the Nissan dually rim on a normal H190 rearend so I could run dually rims on my 1980 Datsun 720 dually diesel truck with 3.3 gears in the rear, it is a 2 1/8" thick adapter and very heavy as it is solid steel, I expect I could do a test fit if your really serious about putting dually rims on the front of your truck.

 

I actually have an incomplete set of dually rims for the normal 6 lug bolt pattern, but USPS lost one of the rims and had no interest in finding my rim, I lost some respect for them, unfortunately the dually rims I am talking about that I also received 4 adapters with them also are 13" rims and they are basically a one off set and they are not 14", but they are made to put a dually rim on the front.

 

As I said, Toyota did make a dually wheel front brake assembly, if you could find one maybe it could be adapted to a 720 front suspension, I have only seen a few Toyota's with dually rims on the front and I did look at one in a wrecking yard being used as a wrecking yard truck and it looked different, as I recall it looked like a full floater rear axle brake drum like the 720 dually axles have.

 

I used the spacers once to make my 720 look better, but I took them off as I don't drive it much anymore.

 

 

[datzenmike]

Wayno what rims were used on the 720 with duals? Surely they were the same bolt pattern? What happens if you have a flat? You need two different spares?

 

Did it carry only a spare for the front and it's assumed a flat on the back could be handled by the other three tires?

[wayno]

2 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Wayno what rims were used on the 720 with duals? Surely they were the same bolt pattern? What happens if you have a flat? You need two different spares?

 

Did it carry only a spare for the front and it's assumed a flat on the back could be handled by the other three tires?

 

They used stock 720 rims with the normal pattern on the front, don't need a spare for the dually, if you get a flat the other will get you to the tire repair place.

The cab/chassis trucks didn't have a dually wheel spare that I ever seen, or a place to put it.

[bluexl]

13 hours ago, wayno said:

I actually had a set of adapters made to put the Nissan dually rim on a normal H190 rearend so I could run dually rims on my 1980 Datsun 720 dually diesel truck with 3.3 gears in the rear, it is a 2 1/8" thick adapter and very heavy as it is solid steel, I expect I could do a test fit if your really serious about putting dually rims on the front of your truck.

 

 

 

 

Wayno, I am looking into getting a custom hub centric wheel adapter made that will allow a 6x6.5 dually wheel to mount to the 6x5.5 front hubs, so I am very interested about the route you took with your adapter. I think a 2” thick adapter would work, but was thinking of going up to  2.5” to be positive that it would clear. If you are able to tell me if the 2 1/8” adapter clears that would be great.. My current concern is that this is going on a 4x4 and I was not sure if the 14” inner wheel which is about 13.5” at about the 2.5” depth mark would clear the lower part of the knuckle and the top of the control arm since the rim will have a pretty deep positive offset. I will also be running 27x8.50R14 tires.

 

Thank you for the advice and input and for taking the time to help with this.

[wayno]

OK, I did a test fit, it is not good, I am only allowed 4mb of photos in a post I think, so this might take a few posts.

 

Here is the adapter on my front hub, it will not go on all the way, it was not made for the front, installed it works out to around a 2.5" spacer.

 

 

Here it is with the wheel installed, it is kinda deep in there and I don't think it would look proper.

 

The brake caliper just clears just clears, I have 1990 Nissan D21 V6 dual piston caliper brakes on this truck.

 

 

You can see a little bit of light between the caliper and the dually rim.

 

 

Keep in mind that I paid over $800.00 to have the 2 adapters made, and I had to find an old timer that did it with his brain/mind, all the other places I approached wanted a computer file handed to them.

 

I will make another post about the other way I did it.

 

 

[wayno]

OK, here is the other way I can do this and use Nissan dually rims.

 

Here is my 4" spacer with a 5/8" spacer that I did not use.

 

Here is my adapter bolted onto the 4" spacer

 

Here it is with the dually rim on it, I did not set the truck on the ground and move it so the negative camber would disappear.

 

 

This does work out to about what the Toyotas looked like with dually rims on the front, maybe sticking out a little more but I did not install the 5/8" spacer I had also.

 

I turned the steering wheel both ways and it barely clears.

 

And last of all you can see the way I did it works out to a 6.25" spacer, if I put the other 5/8" spacer in it would be around a 7" spacer.

 

That is a lot of spacer, them spacers I have were meant to do this, but not with my adapters I had made to be able to use dually wheels on the rear of my 720 truck with a H190 axle like I posted a photo of yesterday, but they were made for the 13 inch rims I have that have a normal Nissan 6 lug pattern.

 

Would I drive my truck with them dually wheels on it the way I just posted photos of, maybe up and down my dead end street within a couple blocks, but not with 2 adapters bolted together on the freeway going freeway speeds, no way, when stuff like this is done stuff gets loose eventually, I found out I had to check my adapters when taking long trips as i had one side work its way loose when I was towing my 520 home from Redmond OR when I bought it home, 4 hours each way, that was a long day and I was lucky the adapter din't fall off, but in the 10 years since they have never came loose again and I used to tow vehicles all the time with this 720 diesel truck(thousands of miles total).

 

I would find a Toyota dually truck(maybe a truck or mobile home wrecking yard) and figure out if that front assembly made for a dually wheel can be adapted or maybe bolt onto your Nissan frame using the Toyota control arms, a 7" spacer is a lot of spacer for a front end, they did it on the rearends a lot with the old dually adapters(8" spacers), but the front end I just don't know.

Edited February 3, 2021 by wayno

[bluexl]

On 2/2/2021 at 5:07 PM, wayno said:

That is a lot of spacer, them spacers I have were meant to do this, but not with my adapters I had made to be able to use dually wheels on the rear of my 720 truck with a H190 axle like I posted a photo of yesterday, but they were made for the 13 inch rims I have that have a normal Nissan 6 lug pattern.

 

Would I drive my truck with them dually wheels on it the way I just posted photos of, maybe up and down my dead end street within a couple blocks, but not with 2 adapters bolted together on the freeway going freeway speeds, no way, when stuff like this is done stuff gets loose eventually, I found out I had to check my adapters when taking long trips as i had one side work its way loose when I was towing my 520 home from Redmond OR when I bought it home, 4 hours each way, that was a long day and I was lucky the adapter din't fall off, but in the 10 years since they have never came loose again and I used to tow vehicles all the time with this 720 diesel truck(thousands of miles total).

 

I would find a Toyota dually truck(maybe a truck or mobile home wrecking yard) and figure out if that front assembly made for a dually wheel can be adapted or maybe bolt onto your Nissan frame using the Toyota control arms, a 7" spacer is a lot of spacer for a front end, they did it on the rearends a lot with the old dually adapters(8" spacers), but the front end I just don't know.

 

Wayno, this is extremely helpful. I started to research the Toyota Sunraders (mine is a Nissan) and I found that Custom & Commercial Wheels, the company that made the original Sunrader dront Dually Wheel adapter for Toyota Sunraders is not far from me. They also made the original dually Sunrader wheels.

They have a front wheel adapter. I tried including some photos that I took at their shop today, but I am not sure why my image URL is not working. These adapters weight 4.6lbs each, so not too heavy. They are hub-centric aircraft aluminum and have built-in tabs for the dually wheel (I tried to show it in the photos, so I will try to upload again). I will keep you posted as I work with the shop to make sure they will fit the 4x4 front end, but the center bore is 108mm, so I think it will work.

 

Again, thank you so much! This forum has been awesome!!!

 

(Got the URLs to work!)

 

 

 

[bluexl]

Also, thanks to datzenmike for making the connection on here.

[bluexl]

@wayno& @datzenmike,

 

Just wanted to update this post. Images below are of the adapters that Motor Sport Tech custom build for us. So far, they are working great.

 

I do wonder if the dually rearend will mate to a same year 4x4 720. Does anyone know if someone has done this?...Maybe that is another thread though.

 

 

 

[datzenmike]

wayno that front wheel looks so scary awesome. (in a good way)

[wayno]

I believe that all 520/521/620/720 truck frame leaf spring widths are the same width wise, the axle itself is wider as the years have passed but the perches are the same width apart.

The dually axle is a C200, the C200 only came with a limited number of gear ratios, I myself have only seen the 4.3 and 4.6 gear ratios, I heard there was a 4.8 gear ratio, that said I believe that you can put the 4.1 gear ratio in the dually axle as the later 4wd 720s also came with a C200 axle and they also had the 4.1 gear ratio, now I broke a shaft and ovaled the hole for the shaft in the carrier of my 4.3 in my dually and I found a 4wd with a C200 and I pulled the carrier and put it in my dually axle and it worked, so I believe the 4.1 will fit in the dually axle if you can find a good ring/pinion set, Nissan also told me there was a 4.1 ratio for the axle when I bought a set of dually axle drums from them(last ones in the USA), they also had dually axle lug nuts but they were expensive.

 

I have no plans on putting a dually rim on the front of my 720, I do not drive it anymore so I do not see the point, mine has a diesel engine anyway and need 3.5 or 3.3 gear ratios and that is why I had my adapters made, what did you pay for them adapters bluexl?

[bluexl]

3 hours ago, wayno said:

I believe that all 520/521/620/720 truck frame leaf spring widths are the same width wise, the axle itself is wider as the years have passed but the perches are the same width apart.

The dually axle is a C200, the C200 only came with a limited number of gear ratios, I myself have only seen the 4.3 and 4.6 gear ratios, I heard there was a 4.8 gear ratio, that said I believe that you can put the 4.1 gear ratio in the dually axle as the later 4wd 720s also came with a C200 axle and they also had the 4.1 gear ratio, now I broke a shaft and ovaled the hole for the shaft in the carrier of my 4.3 in my dually and I found a 4wd with a C200 and I pulled the carrier and put it in my dually axle and it worked, so I believe the 4.1 will fit in the dually axle if you can find a good ring/pinion set, Nissan also told me there was a 4.1 ratio for the axle when I bought a set of dually axle drums from them(last ones in the USA), they also had dually axle lug nuts but they were expensive.

 

I have no plans on putting a dually rim on the front of my 720, I do not drive it anymore so I do not see the point, mine has a diesel engine anyway and need 3.5 or 3.3 gear ratios and that is why I had my adapters made, what did you pay for them adapters bluexl?

 

This is great info @wayno. I had no idea all those gear ratios exited for the Nissan diallies. Ours is a 1984 Sunrader (Mini RV) and it came with the dually rear setup. I wnde what the gear ratio on ours is.

 

The adapters were $200 each side, so $400 total. They are aircraft grade alluminum, and hub & lug centric.

 

I always wondered how I would ever find a set of drums if I were to need them, so hope NOT to need them. LOL.

 

 

[wayno]

I have a few dually axles, one is a parts axle now or an axle I could try to fit a set of 4.1 gears into, but I am not motivated to do such a thing as my work truck needs the 4.6 gears although I can use 4.3 gears if I want to smell clutch every once in a while, that truck weighs 3900 pounds now, but it weighed 3400 pounds before I made it a dump truck.

 

I paid over $800.00 for my adapters I had made by an old school machinist(no computer) as the other places I tried looked at me like I was crazy, they needed a computer program to make such a thing, I suspect they could not find their way home if they had to use a map, the same machinist made me a custom center link at the same time so I could make a power steering assembly for my dually 521 work truck over 11 years ago.

 

Did you get the lug nuts with the adapters also, or did you have to buy them separately?

[bluexl]

I got lucky and found the 3 wheels (2 front wheels and one spare) as well as the lugnuts on a 720 RV at my local junk yard. It had rained for a week a few days prior, and the RV just happened to be located in the one part of the junkyard that got flooded. We used some lose tires that still had air as rafts while we manuevered to get the 3 wheels, but we had to come back once it dried up to find the lugnuts. Luckily all 12 of them were there burried in mud, but they sure did clean up pretty well as you can see from the pics. The axle and drums were gone by the time I came upon it. It still had some great condition 84' tan seats that I now wish I would have pulled, but at the time I knew NOTHING about Datsun/Nissans. Now I still know next to nothing, but I'm learning. The old school machinists were definitely artists thats for sure.

 

I am not sure what the Sunraider weighs, though I did research it at one point when I was buying the Maxxis tires. I can't recall it at the moment, and it varied based on the gray/black tanks and propane. I will have to look it up again and retain the info.