Turns over but will not run

[moryd]

I bought this truck in the winter and drove it till 2 months ago.  I finally had so time to play around with it today.  This is my first diesel truck, so I have no clue as to what I'm doing.  So with the knowledge I have, I'm guess that its not getting fuel.  So I spent this afternoon cleaning the fuel injectors and checking the rest of the fuel system.  Put it all back together and still nothing.  When I bought it I replaced all the fluids in it and all the filters I could find.

[datzenmike]

wayno is the guy to talk to about the SD.

 

http://community.ratsun.net/user/5657-wayno/

[dime'n daily]

have you checked the glow plugs?

[ggzilla]

Have you checked to see if its run out of diesel?

[wayno]

Welcome :)

I bought this truck in the winter and drove it till 2 months ago.  I finally had so time to play around with it today.  This is my first diesel truck, so I have no clue as to what I'm doing.  So with the knowledge I have, I'm guess that its not getting fuel.  So I spent this afternoon cleaning the fuel injectors and checking the rest of the fuel system.  Put it all back together and still nothing.  When I bought it I replaced all the fluids in it and all the filters I could find.

I have a couple questions, is everything stock, meaning before it started acting up and quit starting, did it turn off with the key, or do you have to use a choke cable?

Did you unplug anything and forget to plug it back in?

There are 3 electrical things that control the engine, one is the glow plug timer, it warms up the glow plugs automatically when you turn on the key, number two is the DPC module(black box near the ID plate on the passenger side inner fender), it controls the 3rd thing, the injection pump controller, that moves the injection pump to the position needed to start and stop the engine via the injection pump, if your DPC module or the injection pump controller are not functioning properly, your engine will not start. 

[wayno]

Sometimes the injection pump controller gets for the lack of a better word confused, sometimes I have had to unplug it while the key is on and then plug it back in, and then it resets, this has happened several times to other members on here.

Have you re-timed the injection pump, this will cause major issues with the IP controller.

The injection pump controller is below the injection pump and has an arm that goes from it to the injection pump arm.

Once you take the injection pump lines off the injectors, they empty of fuel, it then takes up to a minute or more before the injectors get fuel and the engine even tries to start, but doing this is very hard on the starter, you need to limit how long you turn the starter over, you do not want to get it hot, it will ruin it, and they are expensive to buy and rebuild, if it is so hot that you cannot hold your hand on the starter case, quit turning it over till it cools off.

[moryd]

Thank you for the quick response.  It's  almost completely stock and looks like original parts.  I just replace the air intake and took off the clutch fan, replaced it with an electric one.  Before this problem the truck start and shut with just the key.  The glow plugs are getting power (tested with a test light) and I can hear a click a little while after I turn the key to the on position. On a side note the battery looks as old as my first car and the power and ground cables in horrible shape.  And for the problem 2 and 3 I have no idea what kind of shape they are in, I will look for those the next chance I get.

 

 

Have you checked to see if its run out of diesel?

 

Just left the fuel station when it started to die.

[wayno]

Just left the fuel station when it started to die.

Are you sure you put diesel in it, that would be about the right amount of time for the fuel to cycle into the system.

There is also the chance that the fuel you bought had water in it, it died when you started it and then tried leaving the station?

So it was running when it died?

You will need another person to check this out, while a person is sitting in the drivers seat turning it over after you hear the click, you need to look at the arm on the injection pump, when the engine is being turned over, while you are standing on the passenger side, the arm on the injection pump should turn clockwise an inch or maybe a little less, if it doesn't move, then that would be a major problem.

If it doesn't move, then you need to disconnect that arm coming from injection pump controller below, the arm will then move to the run position, if it starts in that position, then you know your problem, the IP controller or the DPC module is having issues which is not an uncommon problem.

I can tell you to do all sorts of things to do and thoroughly confuse you, since it was running I would suspect the fuel itself, the only time I have had an engine die on me while it was running was because of a plugged pre fuel filter, or a cracked fuel line, and it is a bitch to get it started and keep it running when that happens.

I meant to ask, which injection pump you have, the first or second photo below?

 

If it is the second photo, then a lot of what I said above doesn't apply for this injection pump, it's a different setup with different issues.

[moryd]

Yeah I left the fuel station, got on the hyway and was just getting up to speed when it started to die.  This is not the first time it has given me problems on the hyway, normally I just back off the throttle and reapply it then its fine for the rest off the trip.  I have the first pump in your pictures there.

[wayno]

Yeah I left the fuel station, got on the hyway and was just getting up to speed when it started to die.  This is not the first time it has given me problems on the hyway, normally I just back off the throttle and reapply it then its fine for the rest off the trip.  I have the first pump in your pictures there.

Are you sure you have found all the filters?

Sometimes people like me put a filter back by the tank.

First I would rule out the electric part of the engine/injection pump, make sure that is working right first, then I would put a clear pre-filter in it back by the tank, then prime the shit out of it, if that filter doesn't fill up right away, maybe the pickup tube in the tank is plugged, or maybe someone bottomed the tank out and it pushed against the pickup tube.

If everything fills up when priming the system, and it still will not start, I would remove the injection lines and turn it over, the injection pump should squirt little drops of fuel into the air, if that doesn't happen, then the lift pump could be bad, or the injection pump has issues, or it is not getting fuel for some reason, I really don't know, doing this over the internet is hard, it's easy to miss stuff that I do automatically.

I can usually get them running, now they may not run good, but they run. :lol:

Do not use either/starting fluid!!!

[ggzilla]

They make diesel starting fluid, but it shouldn't be used on a glow plug engine.

 

Starting fluid wont fix the problem.

[moryd]

I finally got some one to turn it over while I watched.  I took a video but I could not see the screen and recorded every that  happened execpt for when the engine was being turned over.  The fuel pump did squirt fuel all the way to the hood.  After I move this weekend I will try and post a video of what is happening.

[wayno]

OK, so you have fuel, my friend down the road had an issue with his engine, he had been turning it over and it would not start, it would not even hit, I asked him if he was sure he had power to the glow plugs, he said yes, I told him to turn the key on while I tested with a volt meter, he had no power even though he thought he did, we jumped the power from the positive battery to the post of the first glow plug for maybe 20/30 seconds and started the engine, he had been fighting it for hours/days, which I am not sure I remember anymore.

How/Where are you testing for power to the glow plugs?

 

So when you removed all the injectors/lines/ect. and cleaned them, are you sure you didn't accidentally unplug the main glow plug wire(white with red line) going to the rear glow plug?

Test the glow plug power again by having someone turn the key on and you check the front glow plug for power.

Did I ask if you still have the fusible links, they are the black and green wires coming off the positive battery post in the photo below.

The black plug in the photo above is a problem area, in the past I have moved this plug and seen sparks from bad connections, you can actually see the main black plug is warped and melted a little.

All this doesn't tell us why your engine died after you left the fuel station, if it just died fast, just quit running, then I don't know what the issue would be, if it died slowly, which basically it would feel like it was missing till it just stopped, that would seem like a fuel starvation issue, I have had that issue before going down the freeway on more than one occasion, it would start missing, I would pull over but keep it running in neutral, it would seem to get better, but when I would try to get going again it would start missing again, my issue was a plugged pre-filter back by the tank, it starts with the engine missing.

Check the glow plug power at the front glow plug, check to make sure the injection pump controller moves the injection pump arm clockwise when you start turning the engine over, if it doesn't move it will never start, make sure all your filters are new, especially the pre-filter.

Does the light work in your dash telling you when the glow plugs are being warmed up, and when you hear the click does the light go out?

[Mike_Datsun_Oregon]

New to the Datsun stuff....So my Chevy took a turn for the worst. So I've took a deal on a $300 720, just to get to work. Anyway, it wont start now. I was driving and it died. a few more times and the battery died too. Then the starter. I now replaced the starter and everything was fine. But now it wont start at all. Gas is good, starting fluid doesn't help. Fuel pump is hard wired with a manual switch. Ignition is also hard wired with a switch. The last time it ran I was going up hill and it started shaking and died. smoked a bunch too. I topped off the oil, installed 8 new plugs, the new starter. I bought a Oil pressure sending unit. But found it doesn't go to the truck? Its large, and where it would go next to the filter, there's a small hex nut with the gauge hose in it. I can't find any broken fuses. The previous owner did do a lot of homemade wiring harnesses and such. Redneck fixes. But the think is, it ran before. Any ideas? Much appreciated. -Mike

[datzenmike]

Actually this is moyrd's thread and posting your problem here may generate conflicting and confusing answers. By all means you are free to start your own personal thread about this in the 720 section. Afterwards, I can move this over there or get rid of it as required.

 

 

 

So this has an after market oil pressure gauge? Does it work?

 

Better yet... How much oil did you need to top it up??

[moryd]

Thank you for all the help so far and sorry for falling off the map.   I finely had the chance to look at the truck again, this time with someone who has a little more knowledge (my dad).   We found that its probably the fuel pump.  The controller was going counter clock wise and that the it was the fuel pump primer that was pushing fuel not the when the motor was running. Wanyo had describe what had happen to me with my truck dying on the hyway  except this time it didn't say running when I stopped.  

[datzenmike]

wayno's our resident diesel expert.

[moryd]

I have gone and did some reading and a lot places where leading me to look at the dpc.  As far as I can tell, it is working as it should, moving form off to start to run when need.  I have also tried the reset for it, puting the key in the on position, then unplugging and plugging the connection to it. It still does not run. :blush: 

[datzenmike]

Try wayno over at http://nwdatsuns.com/