72 2-door Project

[datsunfreak]

my engine is .50 over. And a couple pistons have some scarring on the tops. Does anyone know what brand these pistons are?

Also, how much bigger does boring .50 over make the engine?

 

 

 

The .50 overbore means it was bored 1/2 a millimeter over. 

 

Due to the fact that it had an A87 head on it, and flat top pistons, I'd bet it was an "import" engine. I've seen at least 4 engines from ATK (imported from Japan in the 80s) that all had that head and those pistons. Often ATK rebuilt the engines, and it seems they overbored every single one of them to .50 to save time (and money). 

 

FYI, the stock US head should say "210" on it, not "A87". 

 

Also, you need to confirm that the block has "L16" stamped into it if you haven't already.

 

As for externally how to tell if it's an L16 crank or an L18 crank, I don't know the numbers but I might be able to measure mine (have both sitting here) and help you figure it out? Or look at the numbers on mine and see if that tells you anything. 

[Rushin510]

Thank you for the information, I really appreciate it! So, I'm guessing my bores are basically .020 over American. I'm trying to collect information so I can buy the right rebuild kit (and curiosity, too). My block does say L16, and my car is numbers matching, if you can believe that!

 

If you get a minute and could measure the journals, that'd be great! I mean, if the cranks are stuffed away in an attic somewhere & hard to get to, don't go out of your way.

 

I was just so surprised when I opened the engine and found the flat tops, and the head. I had no idea the previous owner or whoever, had that done, or as you suspect, it was an import engine. If I remember correctly, I bought it from the second owner; a neighbor kid who was only a couple years older than me, maybe 19-20, and had no mechanical ability as far as I knew.

 

My car also has a 69 SSS grille on it, which I thought was weird considering it's a 72. The stainless cleaned up nice once I removed all the spray paint, though.

[Rushin510]

Here's the replica Simi Nissan plate I made. Close enough to the original. :)

 

[datsunfreak]

My block does say L16, and my car is numbers matching, if you can believe that!

 

I was just so surprised when I opened the engine and found the flat tops, and the head. I had no idea the previous owner or whoever, had that done, or as you suspect, it was an import engine.

 

Unless that's the original block, it's not "numbers matching".   ;)

 

And if the numbers do match, then someone replaced the head on it somewhere along the way.  :thumbup:

 

And for a 510 to be "numbers matching" just means it has the original block, which is more common than you might think. 

 

 

My car also has a 69 SSS grille on it, which I thought was weird considering it's a 72

 

Just as an fyi, that's not a SSS grill. It's the regular 1969 grill. 

 

The '69 SSS grill usually looks like this:

 

 

 

Although they are quite similar. 

[datsunfreak]

If you get a minute and could measure the journals, that'd be great! I mean, if the cranks are stuffed away in an attic somewhere & hard to get to, don't go out of your way.

 

I can measure them in a few days. Both are sitting on engine stands at our shop.  :thumbup:

[Rushin510]

Thanks! The numbers stamped into the block match the ones on the tag in the engine bay. So, you think someone had that engine done rather than it being an import?

 

The one pic of the grille I found that looked like mine was mislabeled as an SSS. I'm glad you've chimed in on my build, you have a lot of great information! I appreciate your help in solving my mysteries.  :thumbup:

[datsunfreak]

 

Thanks! The numbers stamped into the block match the ones on the tag in the engine bay. So, you think someone had that engine done rather than it being an import?

 

Yeah, somewhere along the way it probably needed a rebuild and rather than repair the head they replaced it with either an import head, or a US L18 head, then they bored the block 0.5 mm over.

 

There are two different A87 head castings. The US L18 head was stamped A87 but had open chambers, where the import L16/L18 head was stamped A87 but had closed chambers. 

 

A photo of the bottom side of the head would tell which one it is. 

[Rushin510]

The chambers looks like lima beans to me.

 

I bet you're exactly right. That might explain the valve bite in the top of the cylinders. I bet the original head had a problem, maybe timing or something and barfed up the cylinders. They rebuilt the engine and replaced the head with this one. That's the first thing that's made any sense to me with this car so far! lol!

[Rushin510]

According to this thread: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/30580-l20-cam-in-l16/page-2 , I also have an L20b cam in there? It has an A stamped in the end, iirc.

[datsunfreak]

According to this thread: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/30580-l20-cam-in-l16/page-2 , I also have an L20b cam in there? It has an A stamped in the end, iirc.

 

 

 

 

L18 and L20b cam are the same, so that coupled with the closed chambers tells me it's most likely an import L18 head.  :thumbup:

[datsunfreak]

The chambers looks like lima beans to me.

 

That is the "closed chamber" head I mentioned. It's a higher compression than the regular A87 head.

 

Regular US-market A87:

 

[Rushin510]

That's definitely different. Thanks for the confirmation. 

 

I dropped my block off at my machinist this morning. He suggested I have it bored the next size up from the .020 it is now, since I have to buy new pistons anyhow. Will this cause any problems with compression or anything else?

I asked him to check his sources for Z pistons, too. He might be able to get them for a better price.

 

Yesterday, I took my fenders off (maybe I shouldn't have :crying: ) and discovered this treasure:

 

I started to cut some of the rust out, but my last cutoff wheel pooped out.

 

 

I'm guessing the only place I can find a new fender support dealie on a donor car? I don't suppose there is a source for new ones. I figure I'll have to make one myself, since I've NEVER seen another 510 here.

 

But, the silver lining...I learned that I have a roadster clutch and on top of that, it's not wrecked! :)

 

 

 

[datsunfreak]

 He suggested I have it bored the next size up from the .020 it is now, since I have to buy new pistons anyhow. Will this cause any problems with compression or anything else?

 

It shouldn't. 

 

 

I'm guessing the only place I can find a new fender support dealie on a donor car? I don't suppose there is a source for new ones. 

 

I hate taking fenders off for this very reason. It's almost better to not know it's there.   :rofl:

 

Never seen them new. Most people just patch them as need be. 

[Rushin510]

Thanks. Yeah, I agree! That's what I was afraid of. I'm going to use what's there for reference to fab a new one, cut out the bad area, then, I have to weld in a patch along the side right there to the strut tower, then I'll have good metal to weld the "new" support to. I'm pretty sure it's going to suck.  :sleep:

[datsunfreak]

 

, then I'll have good metal to weld the "new" support to. I'm pretty sure it's going to suck.  :sleep:

 

 

 

Just as a "while you're there" sort of thing...

 

The wagons came with an extra brace near that spot. Any time I'm welding on a sedan in that general area I go ahead and add the brace.  :thumbup:

 

[Rushin510]

I didn't know that. I'll add it; can't hurt, right?  

I stopped by our local sheet metal shop today to pick up some materials, and to my husband's relief (he's buying the materials), the guy wasn't there.  I'll have to try tomorrow, shhhhh... ;)

[datsunfreak]

I didn't know that. I'll add it; can't hurt, right?  

 

 

Not one bit.  :thumbup:

[Rushin510]

I got tired of trying to dodge the raindrops to weld the floor, so I pulled the car into the garage today. The window seals leak so, the car was never drying out enough to weld. I had to bring it in.

 

Once I got it in there, I removed the doors, dried out the floor and got to work on some patching. I didn't get a whole lot done because I spent most of the day cleaning the garage. 

Anyhow, here are a couple pics.

 

Ahhh...nice and dry.

 

One of the patches welded in and another section being cut out. Big fun.

 

These clearly aren't the most beautiful welds on the planet, but they're ok and will be POR-15'd & seam sealed, then covered in sound deadener stuff, pad and then carpet. They will surely get better as I go, as I have lots of welding to do.

[Rushin510]

Today, I got the big patch on the driver's side floor welded in. I'm glad that part is finished, but I have to do another one almost exactly like it, only smaller, on the passenger side. 

 

I also got the rear passenger side floor POR-15'd.

 

Slowly but surely...

[Just Joel]

 

The '69 SSS grill usually looks like this:

 

 

 

Although they are quite similar.

 

Just to clarify, this is a 70' coupe white line grill. The 69' version is cast and has unique headlight surrounds ;) but neither of these are considered the typical "sss" grill.

[datsunfreak]

Just to clarify, this is a 70' coupe white line grill. The 69' version is cast and has unique headlight surrounds 

 

I know, but I couldn't find a photo of the other one.    :rofl:

[datsunfreak]

Here's the cast grill in question.

 

 

As you can see it is at least very similar to what I posted.   ^_^

[r0p0doe]

Keep up the good work, havee you set a deadline to get it back on the road?

[Rushin510]

Thanks!

 

When I took it out of storage, I just intended on pulling the engine, replacing the freeze plugs and clutch master/slave & getting it on the road for summer. I figured I'd tear it down over the long, awful winter and have it in decent condition by next summer. But, once I realized how rough it was, I couldn't really do that, unfortunately. Especially when I saw the extent of the engine damage with the broken pistons.

 

I guess it's turned out to be a blessing in disguise, because I didn't know how bad the car really was and it could only get worse if I didn't do something about it. It's just heartbreaking to keep finding rust on my formerly rust-free car, but again, if I didn't do something, all I'd have left would be tires and glass sitting there!

 

I'm still hoping to have it near completion by next summer, but I'd LOVE to hear the engine run again this year. We'll see, I guess. The machine shop still has the block, so I need to get a hold of them today to see if he found some .030 over flat top Z pistons for me & where we're at with it. My husband said I should just have them build the engine, but then I'd miss out on building my engine! ;)

[Rushin510]

Can someone tell me if this is the stock setup for my 72? I can take better photos if need be.