Draynor Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 I picked up this mystery block from Eagle_Adam, Also came with a W58 peanut head. Whoever built this motor ground off the block identification area.After some research I found out this is a Z22e block. Then looking at it some more and tearing it down, Laecaon and I determined it is a Long Rod engine. While taking it aprt we found that 2 of the pistons had chunks of metal missing between the 1 and 2 rings. Also the crank journals aren't the best. Oil dip stick is already re-located, Kinda nice :cool: I got new 2" exhaust recently in prep for the LZ :D Engine Specs:Z22e blockZ22e pistonsZ20e 6" long rodsL20b crankW58 peanut headI ordered new pistons,rings,bearing,plugs,gaskets, and timing kit. Waiting on the pistons still. Still looking for a different L20b crank. Plan is to drill necessary holes in block and head gasket, hone, then assemble the motor. Deciding between R1 carbs or some SU's... All done :P There will be some more progress once some parts get here. 1 Quote Link to comment
Eagle_Adam Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 WOOT!!!!!! good to see this 1 Quote Link to comment
Draynor Posted December 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Ok so almost done with the engine. Ordered the wrong pistons, had to wait for new ones to come in.Crank back from polishing New Z22e pistons pressed onto the rods. Blocked honed. Crank and main bearings in. Pistons and rods in. Ring gaps were all in spec! No pictures, but the block was drilled. Head and KA oil pump cleaned up. Head on. Got timing kit on today and realized we had no cam gear bolt. Off to get that and a couple others tomorrow. The SU's, gasket kit and fluids. All ready to be swapped in, Hopefully this coming weekend! Sorry for the low quality pics, Will have some better ones up shortly. Quote Link to comment
Draynor Posted December 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Here are some higher quality pics! 1 Quote Link to comment
Eagle_Adam Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Lookn good man! Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Did you carefully measure the ring gap? The other pistons with the broken lands could have been from that... and over heating. Do you know what the piston dish is for those Z22E pistons??? They look identical to the Z22 ones from the 720 carb engine, but deeper. Quote Link to comment
Draynor Posted December 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Did you carefully measure the ring gap? The other pistons with the broken lands could have been from that... and over heating. Do you know what the piston dish is for those Z22E pistons??? They look identical to the Z22 ones from the 720 carb engine, but deeper. Laecaon and I put it together. Plastigauged the bearings and all came back in spec, right in the middle. Rings were checked for gap, and all came back in spec. As for the dish, I can't say for sure. They look like they have a little bit deeper dish than the stock Z22e pistons in my first post on this thread but not much, everything else all had the same specs. They have the same pin heigth as stock Z22e pistons 32.1.At first I ordered Beck/Arnley pistons and they were Z22s/Early Z22e pistons. Had to go back and order these current ones which are ITM late Z22e pistons, Ordered them for a 1983 200sx.Not sure why these pistons have more dish, But I am hoping it lowers the compression ratio just a little bit. Maybe it's just an illusion that they have more dish :huh: Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 As the Z22S and the Z22E used the same head, bore and stroke, I doubt the factory varied the piston dish much. Otherwise they would have various compression ratios and emissions problems. The truck (carb) piston dish is 9.32cc so I imagine the Z22E are close. Quote Link to comment
Draynor Posted December 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Yeah, I read somehwere that the Z22e are 9.32cc as well. Just weird cause the replacment ITM pistons I got have way bigger valve releifs in them. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 With closed chamber head that's 10.48 compression so yeah bigger is way better. It's 9.8 even with the open chamber head Quote Link to comment
Draynor Posted December 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 Premium fuel here I come... :rofl: 1 Quote Link to comment
Draynor Posted January 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Big thanks to "Laecaon, Eagle_Adam, Jassifrass, H5WAGON, and anyone else who helped along the way!"I was amazed of the power on the first drive! Even though there is a fuel delivery issue going on, it hauled ass on the way home! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :hairy: Will probably have some video up tomorrow! 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Later, maybe post a nice smokey burn out... 2 Quote Link to comment
Eagle_Adam Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 both vids ^^^ click to see em Quote Link to comment
Doctoraudio Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 So has this motor idea been dyno before?And here is my questions. As I am looking at the Z22E and the L20B engine. L20B produces 110 hp Z22E produces 103 hpIf you bored the L20B block and use the same Z22E pistons.Wouldn't you create more HP. Wouldn't the power band have a wider range of rpm? Quote Link to comment
Doctoraudio Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Sorry for the questions.I am trying to learn something! Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 The L20B makes about 95 RWHP The 110hp is from an engine tag when gross HP was advertized. As the 2.2 is 10% more displacement we can infer that it will make around 10% more hp so 103 is about right. Note that the Z head has poor performance potential at high RPMs so putting an L head on would surly have more power. 1 Quote Link to comment
Doctoraudio Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 This is the reason I was asking:Long rod 2.1L motor parts: L20B or Z20 crank, Z22E pistons, Z20E rods in a Z22 block or +2mm bored L20B/Z20 block.Would there be any positives of using the L20B block bored out 2mm over?And if there is what are the negatives? And then it says:If you are re-using old Z22E pistons, they will be 87mm. Engine displacement will be 2044cc.If you are buying new pistons, get Z22E pistons in +1mm oversize, 88mm and bore the L20B or Z20 block +3mm to 88mm or convert a Z22 block and bore only +1mm. Engine displacement with 88mm pistons will be 2092cc for a near true 2.1L motor. How thick is the cylinder wall is going to be after a 3 mm oversize bore?Wouldn't it be better to use the L20B block, to avoid having any issues with fitting the head to the block?I am sure, I can find a L20B block to build.Lastly, how bad do you think the mileage would be? Quote Link to comment
Eagle_Adam Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 YouTube links with sound Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 This is the reason I was asking: Long rod 2.1L motor parts: L20B or Z20 crank, Z22E pistons, Z20E rods in a Z22 block or +2mm bored L20B/Z20 block. Would there be any positives of using the L20B block bored out 2mm over? And if there is what are the negatives? The L20B and the Z20E or S are basically the same block. They both have the same bore and only some casting webs on the outside are the real differences. The Z22E or S are again basically the same as the L20B/Z20 except the bore is already larger and the casting altered to reflect this. Using a Z22 does not need any boring to run Z22 pistons unless worn beyond use. If oversize pistons are needed you have to option of going 0.5mm (0.020") the full 1mm over to increase the displacement slightly. If using the L20B you definitely will need to overbore but easily found stock Z22 pistons (in good shape) can be used. A full 1mm will have to be removed from the cylinder wall requiring at least two passes of the boring machine adding to the cost. A Z20E block is rumored to be siamesed, that is, there is a web of metal joining between the cylinders. L20B and Z20 cylinder walls can handle a 1mm bore easily enough but they obviously will be thinner by this amount compared to using a Z22 block. And then it says: If you are re-using old Z22E pistons, they will be 87mm. Engine displacement will be 2044cc.If you are buying new pistons, get Z22E pistons in +1mm oversize, 88mm and bore the L20B or Z20 block +3mm to 88mm or convert a Z22 block and bore only +1mm. Engine displacement with 88mm pistons will be 2092cc for a near true 2.1L motor. How thick is the cylinder wall is going to be after a 3 mm oversize bore? Well this is a good question. The L20B/Z20 bore is 85mm so to increase the hole diameter to 88mm you will need to remove 1.5mm or 0.060" from the wall all the way around. About two thumb nail thicknesses. I don't know how thick the cylinder walls are to begin with and in addition the casting could have shifted increasing the possibility of boring into the water jacket. L20Bs have successfully been bored to 89mm, that's 2mm removed form the walls. One and a half mm is do-able I think. Wouldn't it be better to use the L20B block, to avoid having any issues with fitting the head to the block? I am sure, I can find a L20B block to build. The L head will fit to the Z22 block perfectly. You will have to modify the head gasket and maybe add a couple of holes. Not rocket science with a hand drill and sealick can help with this. Lastly, how bad do you think the mileage would be? This is impossible to answer. Everyone drives differently. Not sure which motor you may be building is it L20B crank/Z20E rod and Z22 pistons? Because this barely increases the displacement at all. I would so no difference. If using an L20B block but installing Z22 pistons/rods and crank you are basically making an L2.2B and have increased the displacement 10% 1 Quote Link to comment
Doctoraudio Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Between the two threads Mike, I have learned so much.Thank you sir.I love the motor in my car now.That doesn't mean I am set on it. If I were to come up with any of these blocks, it seems to be more about getting the machining done.The Z22 would need less machining. Which is what I see at this moment of the most single thing cost.Now I see why they went with the Z22E block.It all makes since now.Like I said, I learned a lot!maybe someone else has more questions, but I am good now.Thanks again! Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Ratsun can never have enough LZ threads. Speaking of LZs...this ended up in my kitchen tonight... Not very far away from my pile of parts which happen to incl. a U67 head, L20B timing cover, and many other L trinkets. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Z22 from a 720? Interesting alternator, what's it from? Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Came from an 82 720. Yes. Z22. It was dropped off at my place tonight. I know nothing of the specifics. dat77sun pulled it from his rig to install a Chev 4.3. Developed a small knock; Burns oil. Rings, hone, bearings. Quote Link to comment
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