Short Block Health Check?

[datzenmike]

 

GOOD

 

VERY BAD

[Sealik]

 

 

 

 

That is not good

Pull TC cover....replace chain, tensioner and or.

Confirm TDC

 

[atkinson40]

Thanks Mike and Sealik

 

I had a redeeming thought as I lay in bed this morning. 

 

This is the motor that when I brought her home from the JY and pulled of the oil pan I found this.

 

 

A big ol" hunk of chain gaurd in the bottom of the oil pan. 

 

Now I had god enough sense to compare the chain gaurds that on the motor to the other motor I have.

 

No pieces missing.  They looked new.  Someone replaced them.  The tensioner also seemed to work OK.

 

I wedged the "Blue Tool" down there and kept it there the whole time.

 

 

So soething happened in the past to this motor to cause the cahin to chew up the guide??

 

When they fixed it, they didn't remove the pan and pull out the broken guide.

 

Thery also maybe didn't fix the original proble that caused the chain to chew up the guide.

 

And that is maybe where I'm at now.  I'll pull of the cover and inspect. 

 

It's wasn't anything obvious to a newb like me when I put it together

 

Thanks kevin

[datzenmike]

You just have slack on the tension side either the motor was backed up or the cam moved ahead. If everything is together turn the motor clockwisw areound and set to TDC compression on #1 and it will ne gone. If there is slack like that on the other  side.. then I would be worried. You can see in your picture that the cam is no longer at TDC.

[atkinson40]

You just have slack on the tension side either the motor was backed up or the cam moved ahead. If everything is together turn the motor clockwisw areound and set to TDC compression on #1 and it will ne gone. If there is slack like that on the other  side.. then I would be worried. You can see in your picture that the cam is no longer at TDC.

Thanks Mike

 

Slack goes out and everthing lines up as in before pictures. 

 

Both gear and cam notches line up almost perfect.  The cam notch is a tiny bit ahead.  Maybe a quarter of the notch.

 

I'm still trying to find the source of the racket that is coming from under the valve cover.

 

I only here it when the engine is running,  Its pretty loud. 

 

I can't hear or see it if I pull the valve cover and just spin the engine w/o starting it.

 

I pulled the oil pump and see the following.  Seems like the tensioner is out way to far relative to your image??

 

 

   Thanks Kevin

[Sealik]

Chain is stretched.....should be replaced

Most likely causing the "racket" you are hearing.

 

[atkinson40]

Chain is stretched.....should be replaced

Most likely causing the "racket" you are hearing.

 

 

Thanks Sealik,

 

I have another chain.  I can compare them.  If both are fail, buy a new one. 

 

I see that this engine doesn't have the post right above the crank shaft gear between the chain like the old one did.

 

The post is also in Mike's image, but not in the below image.  What is this post?? 

 

Also there is a slot at the top of the slack side guide.  Is this supposed to be an adjustment?

 

Thanks kevin

 

[Sealik]

You will need to install the other 'old' chain and see how far the tensioner is sticking out.

Confirm the guides/gears are not excessively worn etc.

 

Should just buy a whole new assembly.....but

 

Just for reference....here's mine at TDC.

Notice the woodruff key on crank pointing straight up.....relative to engine

Bottom of guide (slack side) on left..... is positioned in the left hole......top of guide is pivoted until all slack in chain is removed

 

 

 

 

EDIT

Top of my guide was pivoted over after pic was taken....

[atkinson40]

Thanks sealik

 

I was too much of a newb to know about the adjustment.

 

Is it possible that adjusting that will fix the slack in the chain?  I'll pull the cover and figure out WTF.  Thanks kevin

[Sealik]

It will help...but it might not remedy the issue though, looks like you have a bit of slack there.

Assemble with 'new' chain and check it out.

 

Be sure to post pics before you put TC cover back on.

[atkinson40]

Pulled the cover.  Thsi is what I found. :blush:

 

 

I swapped it out with the other chain and it's about the same. 

 

Did the adjustment on the guide, and as you said it helped some, but not enough.

 

Will order a new chain tomorrow.  Take a couple of days to get here.  Time to McGiver my new seats in. B)

 

I had a thought.  Before I took the other engine out, the symptoms were poor compression.

 

And, if you pulled the plug wires of one by one, #1 to #4.  #1 made a big difference, #2 a little less, #3 a little more less.

 

All the way to #4 not making much of a difference at all.  I wonder if the chain being all stretched out would cause this?

 

If it's timed to TDC, then #1 may be OK, and the farther along in the roration of the chain you get,

 

The stretch would make the upper end timed worse and worse in relation to the lower end.

 

This kinda fits the pulling of the plugs sypmtoms above??  I think??

 

Thanks Kevin

[Sealik]

You should pay a few more bucks and buy the complete TC assembly.....who knows how many miles are on the rest of the components????

Stretched chain will not affect compression...only head and crank timing.....<.. chain slap/noise possibly

There won't be any difference in the 'numbers' between #1 through #4.... " in the rotation of chain"

[datzenmike]

I see that this engine doesn't have the post right above the crank shaft gear between the chain like the old one did.

 

The post is also in Mike's image, but not in the below image.  What is this post?? 

 

The post is called an oil peg. It sprays oil on the chain and/or sprocket. Some have this many do not as enough oil comes out of the tensioner and the spray from the cam above.

[atkinson40]

You should pay a few more bucks and buy the complete TC assembly.....who knows how many miles are on the rest of the components????

Stretched chain will not affect compression...only head and crank timing.....<.. chain slap/noise possibly

There won't be any difference in the 'numbers' between #1 through #4.... " in the rotation of chain"

 

Thanks sealik,

 

I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself.

 

Before, with the other engine,  as it was running.

 

I could pull the plug wires off one by one, and there was a decreasing affect on the engine. 

 

Up to #4 when there was almost none. 

 

I thought the stretched chain may cause an increasing "mis-time" between head and block to cause this.

 

Specifically if the valves of #4 are not opening at the correct time due to chain stretch??

 

The post is called an oil peg. It sprays oil on the chain and/or sprocket. Some have this many do not as enough oil comes out of the tensioner and the spray from the cam above.

 

Thanks Mike

 

I see the hole in the peg on the other motor.

 

 

Thanks kevin

[atkinson40]

Got the timing chain kit and installed it.  Big difference in the tensioner gap.

 

Do I leave a bigger gap by loosening the left rail to give the chain some slack?

 

Doesn't seem to be any slack at all if I push the guide all the way over.

 

 

Got the seats and a center console installed. B)   I be stylin'.   Needs some cleaning.

 

 

Wil finish and start the beast Thur or Fri.

 

Thanks Kevin

[Sealik]

Were there 'bright links' on the timing chain to confirm head/crank timing............ at TDC?

If not.....Assuming you counted the links and or looked at the cam sprocket notch /thrust plate config?

 

The bottom of the left guide is in the correct hole........just pivot the top over untill it is snug

 

Fire in the hole............

[atkinson40]

Up and running.  Timed right.....but #3 cylinder still doesn't seem to have any power. 

 

Pulled the wire from the plug and can hear it going tick, tick.

 

Pulled the plug and it was dry.  More trouble shooting to come.

 

Thanks kevin

[ggzilla]

Inspect the #3 runner of the intake manifold. Do you see a fitting that is not connected?

[atkinson40]

Inspect the #3 runner of the intake manifold. Do you see a fitting that is not connected?

 

Thanks ggzilla.  I finally got the PCV stuff hooked back up.

 

I don't see anything not hooked up on the #3 input runner. 

 

There was a tube/hose that went off to the brake boost. 

 

I plugged it to make sure it wasn't leaking and causing a problem.

 

I'll hook it back up before I drive it.

 

#3 Still has no affect on the engine when I pull the wire to the plug.

 

 

I know the #1 wire on the dizzy is not conventional, but I beleive it's relative.

 

So long as #1 corresponds to TDC and the order is correct, I beleive it should be OK??

 

 

 

I'm going to pull the plug wire while it's running and then shut it off.

 

Then I'll pull the plug and it should be wet with gas,  If not, its not getting enough gas?

 

Right now if I leave the wire on and shut it off and pull the plug, the plug is dry.

 

If it is wet, then I'm going to check valve lash and then compression.  Maybe check plug type, heat range..

 

Thanks kevin

[datzenmike]

Go right to valve lash. Set the cam so both cam lobes are up or at 10 and 2 o'clock. In this position they will be fully closed. Now just grab the rocker and try to wiggle it. As long as it will wiggle slightly there is at least some lash.

[ggzilla]

It looks correct for firing order.

If #3 is not firing:

* inspect the spark plug gap

* Inspect the spark plug porcelain for faint cracks

* Measure the resistance of the plug wire. It should be similar to the others. If it is not, replace the wire. Shorter wires have less resistance, usually around 1,000 ohms per inch.

[atkinson40]

Thanks Mike and ggzilla,

 

Got back from my bike ride and started her up.

 

I pulled the #3 wire off the plug and let it run for about 15-30 seconds.

 

Pulled the #3 plug.   Dry as a bone.  This means no gas??

 

I can check for blockage by pulling the plug.  Turning the engine over until the #3 intake valve is open.

 

Hooking up a shop vac to the plug hole and seeing if there is vacuum at the carb intake.

 

I can even check this against a cylinder that is working to see if I get comparable results.

 

First I'll check the valve lash.   Thanks Kevin

 

PS:  ggzilla,

 

I've swapped the #3 wire with a known good one and swapped the plug with #2 cylinder to no affect.

 

I've also rotated the cap around so that different cylinders end up on different cap posts. 

 

Problem stays with #3.

 

Thanks Kevin

[Sealik]

You didn't have a rag and or jammed in No 3 runner....forgot to remove...?........ :D

How did you rotate the cap....?...It only fits one way

[datzenmike]

You could always swap the #3 plug and wire to a different cylinder. See if problem moves too.

 

Did you do a compression check?

[atkinson40]

You didn't have a rag and or jammed in No 3 runner....forgot to remove...?........ :D

How did you rotate the cap....?...It only fits one way

 

I don't think I left a rag in. :blush:   As I was falling off to sleep last night, I wondered if maybe I got the carb/intake manifold spacer in wrong and it was somehow blocking off #3??

 

I didn't rotate the cap.  I rotated the position of the wires around the cap to put the vacumm advance in the position I wanted.

 

Thanks kevin