L20B Problems with timing? and Im ready to push it off a cliff!!

[banzai510(hainz)]

Thats a fucking Awesoem looking 510 wagon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ok was this thing running good before the timming chain swap?

These things dont jump a tooth unless the whole tensioner is off. Personally never seen it happen.

 

IM not a EFI spec guy , I know nothing about them

However lets work on the Tmming. If you got your spindal at 11/28 then thats great. Now when you drop the dizzy on and it locks down does it line up on #1 plug wire(also rotor prongs line up on star) and you are about middle of the adjustmnt plate.???? If so then its good.

Now if the rotor locks down in between plug wire 1 & 3 plug wire tyhen you most likely have a mismatch timming mount on your matchbox. As 2 versions of the matchbox are out there. What happen people just grab the dizzy and not the whole mount(pedastal) and put it on the other tyep and it dont line up. One way to fix this is move the oil spindal 1 tooth in the direction you need to go to line up on #1 plug wire. Now this would have have only been after your timming chain install as you did it per the book. But maybe the privios owner caught it wasnt running right and had it off a tooth and you put it back to stock not knowing you had a mismatch set.

 

This will be caught with a timming light as you have to crank the dizzy all the way down(retard) to get say 12deg BTDC .

You should be able to go from Zero to 25 BTDC with timming light EZ.

 

If the proplem happen before the timming chain I dont have clue beside ck the dizzy for side wiggle wear on the shaft

Now if the rotor

[rayven14]

Thanks Wayno, If I had to do it all over again there are lots of things I would change, like wire routing and fuel lines and I'd probably try to mount the FPR on or very near the fuel rail.

 

Doomdatsun, yes valve clearance is set at .08 across the board (hell now I forgot) but either way theyre all the same. A very trusted source told me to set it up that way for a very "tight" motor. So far it sounds absolutely amazing... at least at idle and up to 3G's.... I've actually gotten it as high as 5 - 6 grand so Im leaning toward the TPS or AFM at this point. Got a member coming over later to help me out as well

 

Hainz, nope, this car and engine have never run since I bought it three years ago (I've been building it that long) I bought the block in Vallejo, sourced a head here, got parts there..... you get it. Also the rotor points directly at the number one plug on the cap and the distributor is set up almost dead center of the timing adjustment. As far as the dizzy goes, I just had that rebuilt friday night by another very reputable member.

 

Again the car starts up with barely a blink of an eye, it idles nice and quiet, exhaust is cool, hardly any vibration... you would think "Eureka" but sadly no... get it up in the RPM range and NO BUENO!!! I made the adjustments to the AFM and waiting to get some of that AFM- MAF cleaner spray junk to clean up the TPS and see what happens. At this point it almost has to be electrical/TPS or AFM or the ECU although I have another one of those laying around.

 

Although once I purchase the new TPS and maybe a AFM and the same problem happens .... Im pushing it off a cliff... SERIOUSLY!!!!!

[datzenmike]

Changing parts that don't need changing is a waste of money/time.

 

The fact that it starts and runs says that everything is set right. It runs out at 3K..... so what happens at 3K that might cause this? Well it needs lots more fuel, so are those the right injectors? is the throttle position sensor adjusted properly.... there should be a switch that tells the ECU "forget the pre programed fuel map. This guy has his foot to the mat... bring on the GAS!!!"

 

There is also an idle switch that is part of the throttle position sensor. Maybe it's stuck and the ECU thinks you are still at idle?

 

Maybe the 'flap door' sticks at some point

[rayven14]

Datszen Mike, thats a damn good question.

 

Yes this is true, I dont want to change parts for the hell of it. But, the TPS is the cheapest starting point and it goes up from there.

 

As far as the injectors go, theyre factory. Maybe theyre dirty, worn, faulty or otherwise not delivering fuel as they should? However the cheapest I've found were listed at 39.99 (Each) Im not willing to spend that kind of money on a "may be the problem"

 

I checked the flap door on the AFM when I adjusted the "wiper arm" assembly, tried that out today and still No Bueno.

 

Funny thing is if you ease (slowly) into the throttle everything seems to work fine, but once you allow the system to return to idle its all over the board until it levels itself out..... Im thinking TPS and that comes in later this week, tuesday I think.

[datzenmike]

I think the cover comes off the TPS? I have a broken one so maybe not.... There are two sets of contact points inside... one closes at idle the other at full throttle. There is adjustment on the outer case for setting it.

[Sealik]

Mark the position of the TPS relative to the throttle body.

Loosen the 1 or 2 7mill screws holding it into place....rotate it either way and see if there's an improvement, I think it should be basically centered though

3 positions of the TPS can be tested for a certain amount of resistance...idle..(cruise/30 degrees ?) and WOT I believe????

Also....as the flap in the AFM is opened, resistance drops or increases (?)

[rayven14]

Very Freaking interesting.... SO! I figured since I took the darn AFM apart,... why not the TPS and guess what I found? Ok I'll show you... see OIC's

 

 

Turns out that Sealik is right, there are simply to positions on the TPS. One is idle and the other is wide open throttle. In this case there is no such thing as the TPS not working, its either open or closed on either end. So... I cleaned up the contacts and put it back on the car but its still doing the same song and dance. All this of course leads me in the direction of a bad ECU or in the wiring. Ill check tommorrow to see if I have signal at the wire terminal that feeds the TPS. In addition to all that I saved $40 bucks! :thumbup:

[datzenmike]

Process of elimination... on to the next.

[banzai510(hainz)]

THis FI set usues soem sort of ballast resisitor right?

I remeber seeing a guy having them. Its a stock set up.

[Sealik]

THis FI set usues soem sort of ballast resisitor right?

I remeber seeing a guy having them. Its a stock set up.

 

Dropping resister?

Drops the voltage to the injectors to around 5 volts(?) just in case of any spikes in the electrical/charging system

 

Can see mine here, mounted at a slight angle on the rightside of the firewall

 

I would now check/confirm all the grounds...there is/was also one in the EFI harness that attaches to the motor

IF good and no change..........................Swap ECUs

Make sure the ECU you are using does not require the O2 sensor

[rayven14]

Sealik,

 

Whoa whoa whoa, a ground that attaches to the motor? why does it matter where I attach the ground wire? a ground is a ground. currently I have all my grounds in one location, its inside the passenger compartment right next to the ECU at the body. I will triple check the connection to make sure its snug.

 

I do not have any provisions for an o2 sensor.

[rayven14]

Okay got one for you cats, how important is the altitude sensor? from best I can tell not so much. However I do have that one loose wire from the ECU, so, I was wondering (based on the diagram) if I could simply supply that one wire with a 12volt source? Power comes off the battery, through the EFI relay and to the Altitude sensor (which of course grounds off and supplies power to that terminal in the ECU. What Im proposing would simply bypass that sensor and supply the ECU with 12volts to that terminal. However! with the altitude sensor Im wondering if there is some type of resistor or other loading/unloading device that supplies the ECU with power. Any ideas?

 

Im thinking this may be the source of my problems? or at least my problems with the car. :w00t:

 

Or I can spend more money and source an altitude sensor.

 

[Sealik]

Altitude sensor is connected to the water temp sensor............. which you are not running....correct?

 

 

EDIT

Wait....that's just the grounds connecting the 2......

[FJDatto]

I'm going to take a stab at this...With the trap door AFM, I believe they can only be installed one direction, and that's with grid pattern up, or horizontal. You have it mounted vertically, and from what I understand, it will not work properly that way. Messes up the readings somehow.

[Sealik]

I'm going to take a stab at this...With the trap door AFM, I believe they can only be installed one direction, and that's with grid pattern up, or horizontal. You have it mounted vertically, and from what I understand, it will not work properly that way. Messes up the readings somehow.

 

Yeah....I mentioned that earlier.

Mine is horizontal (stock position)...but rotated 180 degrees with the 'clock' up....works fine.

 

Myself......I would hook up the altitude sensor, coolant sensor and rotate AFM 90 degrees

[FJDatto]

I must have missed that post...180 degrees probably won't make a difference since it's still horizontal. 90 degrees, on the other hand...I concur with your rotating AFM 90 degrees. Since that is free, it would be my first choice.

[datzenmike]

Ha ha didn't notice that. Absolutely should be horizontal so gravity does not affect the swing. Good one!

[rayven14]

Damn!!! I kinda wanted to keep ot out of the way but I'll relocate that someplace or another. That does make sense when you think about it, gravity would definately have more of an effect on it.

 

The coolant temperature sensor is hooked, but not the altitiude sensor. Amazingly enough I cant even find one at any of the bix box retailers.

[Sealik]

I thought you just 'hooked' the wires for the non existent coolant sensor?

[rayven14]

Sealik, yes I did have it that way initally. However, once it started acting stoooopid I went and picked up the parts I needed for optimal performance, just so happens it also gives me that finished look.

 

Tommorrow I'll try to move the AFM and I also discovered that the ECM/ECU that Im using is for an automatic... AHAAAAA, hence it snap crackles and pops at 3000RPM. I'll try to swap those out first then move the AFM if all else fails.

[Sealik]

The AFM has to be moved....other than the effects of gravity, guess what will happen when you hit a bump in the road?

[rayven14]

Damn you Sealik!!!! stop giving me more things to think about and more work to do, Im already overworked and underpaid.

[datzenmike]

The S110 EFI was rather rudimentary, I don't think there is anything much different between auto and standard ECUs. For one thing there are no electronics in the transmission that need to be considered. Automatics tend to run slightly warmer idling in gear than a standard.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Instead of pushing this off a cliff

Just push it off a trailer at my house i have set of 44 sidedrafts ready to go.

 

 

I think youll figure this out

[rayven14]

I hate carbs! not to mention the fact that Im trying to be a lil different and do something other than the standard carberator. No offense you like what you like and I like what I like... of course I will give you this much, I could have been driving the damn car a long time ago with a set of 44's.

 

Datzenmike: Hmmmm I dont know or have enough info to counter your statement but I will say that surely there must be some difference, they are completely different part numbers. who knows maybe its simply the idle speed?