A block timing chain questions, ect.

[wayno]

I have an A14 in a 210, and was lead to beleave that the timing chain was put on wrong, so I am trying to figure out if this fact is true from the outside first, my first question is at TDC, where is the rotor supposed to be pointing if I am standing on the passinger side looking strait at the distributer? Strait towards the drivers side away from me would be 12am, towards the rad.(right) would be 3pm.

[ggzilla]

On A-series engines (unlike L-series) the timing chain alignment has zero to do with the distributor alignment. The distributor is not indexed to the cam timing.

[wayno]

I am just trying to find out if I am 180 out on the dist. as it doesn't have a cam to look at, you know, 10am and 2pm on the lobes, in otherwards, how do I tell if the cam isn't 180 out when the balancer is at TDC?

[ggzilla]

1. Turn the crank until the pulley is pointing to the 5 degreee timing mark 5 degrees (or 7 or whatever timing you wish to use).

 

 

Note that A-series doesn't have a balancer, just a plain crank pulley.

 

 

2. Now it is at TDC. But unknown if it is #1 TDC on compression stroke or on exhaust stroke.

 

3. Remove the oil cap. See if you can wiggle the first two rocker arms.

 

4. If not, rotate the engine 360 degrees, and confirm that the first two rockers have play. This indicates TDC on the compression stroke.

 

5. Now, with the pulley timing pointer at the correct mark, remove the distributor cap. The rotor should be pointing at the #1 spark plug terminal.

 

 

What is necessary is that the rotor point to wherever the #1 terminal on the cap is. You can rotate the distributor a long ways if necessary. Or you can move the wires around the cap to the next spots over.

 

(optional) If it doesn't line up with the casting mark as shown in the photo, you can pull the distributor and insert it back in the correct position. This is not necessary, but makes for a more standard install.

 

 

6. If the distributor timing teeth do not line up exactly, loose the hold-down bolt and rotate the distributor until the teeth line up.

 

 

 

That's it. You can double-check the timing with a light once the engine is running.

[ggzilla]

If you suspect it is 180 out, can just move the wires 180 and see if it fires up. The symptoms of 180 out are minor backfire while trying to start.

 

The manual recommends removing #1 plug, hold your thumb over the hole and crank the engine until your thumb is blown off. It probably it will over-rotate some but you can turn it back by hand. This is how TDC-Compression is found on most gasoline engines. You can even do this for the L-series say if the valve cover is still on.

[wayno]

Thankyou ggzilla, I was 180 out the whole time, I didn't wait on the chain though, I pulled the front off and it was installed correctly, the key groove on the crank and the dowel hole on the camshaft gear lined up perfectly, both lined up at aproximately 5pm, it was a pain to get that chain cover back on, but it is back on. When I pulled the valve cover, the first thing I noticed was all the rockers were tight except for one, that may be one reason why they couldn't get it to run.

[ggzilla]

Good show. Good thing you checked it out.

[wayno]

1. Turn the crank until the pulley is pointing to the 5 degreee timing mark 5 degrees (or 7 or whatever timing you wish to use).

 

 

Note that A-series doesn't have a balancer, just a plain crank pulley.

 

 

2. Now it is at TDC. But unknown if it is #1 TDC on compression stroke or on exhaust stroke.

 

3. Remove the oil cap. See if you can wiggle the first two rocker arms.

 

4. If not, rotate the engine 360 degrees, and confirm that the first two rockers have play. This indicates TDC on the compression stroke.

 

5. Now, with the pulley timing pointer at the correct mark, remove the distributor cap. The rotor should be pointing at the #1 spark plug terminal.

 

 

What is necessary is that the rotor point to wherever the #1 terminal on the cap is. You can rotate the distributor a long ways if necessary. Or you can move the wires around the cap to the next spots over.

 

(optional) If it doesn't line up with the casting mark as shown in the photo, you can pull the distributor and insert it back in the correct position. This is not necessary, but makes for a more standard install.

 

 

6. If the distributor timing teeth do not line up exactly, loose the hold-down bolt and rotate the distributor until the teeth line up.

 

 

 

That's it. You can double-check the timing with a light once the engine is running.

 

This post helped me a lot, it taught me a few things, thankyou. This engine has not run in probably 6 years, but I will try tomarrow if I have time. I am used to stopping my work on vehicles when it gets dark(for the neighbors), but it gets dark so early now that I broke out the lights, sometimes I wonder what they think when things don't work, and I start thinking out loud. lol wayno

[wayno]

Ok, instead of starting a new thread for every question, I will ask here first, how do you test a matchbox distibuter to see if it is good, I tested all the wiires going to the distributer, and they all have continuity/are good, but no spark yet, I tested the coil with my ohm meter like the manual says, and it had continuity also, still no spark. Basicly I am hot wiring the engine, it turns over fine/normal sounding. How do you test the matchbox?

[ggzilla]

testing the matchbox is done by hot-wiring it.

 

* 12V to the stem of the Tee AND 12V to the coil + terminal

* coil negative to the top of the Tee

* crank the engine

 

 

If you get no spark, remove the distributor cap and watch to ensure it is turning when the engine cranks over

 

Test your coil by clipping 12V to POS terminal, and momentarily touch a ground wire to NEG terminal (CAUTION: unplug the matchbox first). If you don't get a spark then the coil isn't working. Best to fit a coil lead from coil to the top of the engine or otherise within 1/4" of bare metal, so it doesn't shock you.

[ggzilla]

If you want to dig in, there are a about hundred Matchbox bench tests from the Factory Service Manual. See Matchbox Testing

[wayno]

I unpluged the matchbox and tested the coil as discribed, I got a minor spark touching the wire to the neg. terminal. I am not sure I know how to read ohms correctly, I checked the ign. coil secondary circut and got 50 with the anolog ohm meter set at "Rx100", does this mean the coil is bad since it is supposed to read 8,200-12,400 and I am getting 5,000?

[ggzilla]

You should get a big fat spark. Not a minor weak spark.

 

50 x100 = 5000 ohms. Is the primary reading OK? Try another coil, even an non-EI coil and compare the test results. Non-IE coil will run for 30 seconds (don't let it get too hot by running it too long).

[wayno]

Lets make sure I tested it correctly, what I did was take a wire(matchbox disconnected) and connected it from the pos. side of batt. to the pos. side of the coil, then I took another wire and went from the neg. side of the coil to the neg. side of the batt, and got a minor spark, is this the correct way to test it?

 

 

[ggzilla]

That is one way to test the coil. The coil Sparks when you cut the power (remove the ground wire).

 

So hold it to it 1/3 second, then remove. It will spark a bit where you touch the wire, but the spark to look for is at the center lead.

[wayno]

OK, I connected power to the +side of the coil, I took the lead out of the distributer and put it near ground, then I used a wire from the - post battery terminal to the - post of coil, held for a couple seconds and removed it, and the coil wire jumped a spark to ground, it wasn't an awesome spark, but it was white.

[ggzilla]

Is the distributor shaft turning when the engine is on the starter?

 

Matchboxes are extrememely reliable, I haven't heard of any going bad unless the pos and neg were switched. I'd suspect any other part, especially the wiring & wiring connectors.

[wayno]

Is the distributor shaft turning when the engine is on the starter?

 

Matchboxes are extrememely reliable, I haven't heard of any going bad unless the pos and neg were switched. I'd suspect any other part, especially the wiring & wiring connectors.

 

Yes it is turning, as that is how I found the proper TDC on the crank. The coil jumped a spark to ground, so the coil is good? There is no ballast resister in my wiring harness that I can find, there are/were 3 wires not conneced to anything just under the coil coming out of the harness, one was a big black ground(fixed), one is a black/white stripe with a shielded male connector, and the third is a thin black wire with a shielded female connector. I made my own wires to the matchbox, and that isolated any wiring problems the harness may have had. I have a few matchbox units around, are they interchangable? Can a dist. cap go bad?

[ggzilla]

If the coil sparks, it will probably start.

Look for the next cause of the problem. Is spark getting to the plugs?

 

 

Datsun 1978-up USA models didn't use a ballast resistor. Black/white stripe is probably coil + feed. Thin black wire is probably for a capacitor for noise reduction.

 

 

Yes, a distributor cap can go bad. But you can tell by looking. Shine a flashlight inside and see if there are any faint black carbon tracks that go from one terminal to another or to the edge of the cap. Make sure the button in the center is still there.

 

Or swap another cap on, you'll probably find it makes no difference. If there is a damp grime on the cap, wash it with soap & water and let it dry. I've never come across a bad cap that didn't look bad.

[wayno]

The cap looks new, as do the plug wires, i just can't seem to get any spark, I took the wiring harness out of the picture, there is less spark now when I hot wire the coil, seems the park lights would come on when I hot wired it before. Are the guts of all the matchbox electricals the same, I have a few L block ones around. I put a sparkplug in #1 sparkplug wire and ground it out on the alt. and turn the engine over, but nothing happens, I need to get this to run for one minute, then I will tear the engine&tranny out of the car and get rid of the body.

[ggzilla]

yes the guts are the same

[wayno]

I just don't get this guys, I just changed out the guts(box on the side of the distributer) of the matchbox and still have no spark, but when I turned the engine to TDC and put a plug in number 1 wire, and did the test to check the coil I got a spark on #1 wire/plug. What is going on, what am I missing? Has anyone heard of a "pickup coil assembly" going bad?

[ggzilla]

Yes, the pickup can go bad.

 

I wouldn't try switching the guts -- waste of time.

 

What I would do is turn the A15 in your pickup to TDC, pull the distributor and try it in the new engine.

[wayno]

I do have an A15, but it is in a 1953 MGTD at the moment, and it is not really accessable at the moment, although it is good, as I started it the day before yesterday. Is there a test for the pickup module?

[ggzilla]

Yes there is a test. Use an ohmmeter, and verify there is continuity between the two pickup wires. And verify neither has continuity with ground.