Distributor/Timing woes...

[datzenmike]

Have you adjusted the slack side tensioner?

That should take up some slack but if there is still a lot; Its probably a Z24 chain. The Z20 and Z22 are the same deck/block height. The Z24 was about a 3/4 inch taller. This would make the chain nearly 2 inches too long. I bet your chain has about 3 or four extra links in it. Rock auto has the chain listed as 102 links on the 81 200sx Z20E. and 106 for the 86' 720 pickup Z24i.

 

Heck maybe the parts counter gave the last guy the wrong chain.

 

 

-Dime

 

Good call! After seeing the slack. Spades count the links. Prob from a Z24. Rookie mistake on their part. Or they 'rebuilt' it without taking the timing cover off and that was on it from before.

[banzai510(hainz)]

get it runnng first.

if you get your rig running top notch then call him and say if you need help putting a motor together call me!!!!!!!

 

Usually the lower crank gears dont wear as much. mostly the cam sprocket gets sharp.

[Spades]

It is all together, worked on it most of last night, came in and finished it before work this morning...it runs great! He was off 2 teeth on the crank sprocket and had tons of slack...which explains why I could never get it timed right...I am not sure if it was the slack that wore the crank sprocket down so badly, or because he didn't change the crank sprocket when he put the aftermarket cam sprocket and chain on. The guides were worn (most likely from the chain slop), but the reality of the situation is it only took some gaskets, a Japanese timing chain set and oil pump to finally fix it.

 

I am out my $1400, over $500 in fix it parts...but I have gained insight and lost the child like trust I had for people when they put their word and reputation on the line.

 

So, with the help of my dad, Hainz' video, co-workers, All Data, and Mitchell, the car is set up properly, and is running great!

 

I am hoping if I am polite, maybe Jock @ Bill's Datsun will at least pay for the timing chain kit and oil pump...I kind of doubt it though. I will send him a e-mail today, and call him tomorrow and see what he says.

[banzai510(hainz)]

He aint going to pay for shit.

when buying a used car the code is "AS IS"

 

Rebuilt is different than remanufactured

 

your old oil pump is fine so he isnt going to pay for that.

Maybe Jock is just a hired hand and not a datsun expert.

 

Choke it up to a learning experience and now you can do L and Z motors!!!!!!!!

 

In the datsun world never trust anybody, esp when dealing in used stuff!

I myself have been lucky and never ripped off.

[Spades]

 

Maybe Jock is just a hired hand and not a datsun expert.

 

 

I sent him an e-mail, we will see what he says. He is the owner, has been for 30+ years(I looked on their website, says he has owned it since 1977)...

 

Oh well, lessons learned...

[banzai510(hainz)]

I bet it was a awesome feeling when you put it together and started right up.

 

You said, this really was EZ!!!!!!!!

 

Now find another persons mistake(datsun) for 200$ get it running and sell it for 800$

[Spades]

I was just happy when it fired up just fine and ran good, and even though now I need to nibble away at the secondary linkage I built(with the timing,ect spot on, it no longer has a lean sag, just rich bog,lol)...it gets quite fun if the RPM's are high enough to handle the fuel.

 

once again, thank you everyone for the help with this issue...as soon as I finish tuning it, I can start on the bodywork finally!

[Eriks]

On 3/12/2010 at 1:54 AM, datzenmike said:

While the motor is at TDC remove the distributor and look at the drive spindle position. It should be just like the L series.

 

 

If not, drop the oil pump and spindle and re-position it so that it is like this.

 

..

 

It seems like I just experienced something like this, replacing my old L18 with a L20B. I used the L18 pulley and timing tab, and adjusted to 12 degrees as the handbook says, but engine ran much better at 30+. My initial thought was that the L18 pulley and tab was not compatible with the L20B. Then I notice that the spindle position is more straight up, appox 0 degrees. So now I assume the spindle position is wrong and causing the misfit in timing marks and actual timing. Would you agree? Or maybe I need to find a pulley and tab from a L20B also?

Edited October 18, 2018 by Eriks

[dimedriver]

Sounds like the oilpump/dizzy spindle is installed incorrectly in the l20. It MUST look like the picture you have quoted other wise the dizzy may not reach correct time. If you moved both the pully and the timing tab as a set from the old motor it is showing you the real timing. Also what dizzy do you have? Get the full number off the side and reffrence the list of hitachi dizzies. The list will tell you weather its a vacume advance or retard dizzy. It can also give you an idea as to what the intial timing should be set to. I would set my ignition timing while the engine was running north of 3000RPM at somewhere in the 30degree advanced range.  Again the list will help you figure out what it should uave been set to in the orginal application.

[datzenmike]

On 10/18/2018 at 4:30 PM, Eriks said:

 

It seems like I just experienced something like this, replacing my old L18 with a L20B. I used the L18 pulley and timing tab, and adjusted to 12 degrees as the handbook says, but engine ran much better at 30+. My initial thought was that the L18 pulley and tab was not compatible with the L20B. Then I notice that the spindle position is more straight up, appox 0 degrees. So now I assume the spindle position is wrong and causing the misfit in timing marks and actual timing. Would you agree? Or maybe I need to find a pulley and tab from a L20B also?

 

Mixing the engine and timing tabs means true TDC is questionable so distributor spindle position is also. You'll have to take a spark plug out and put a screwdriver in to touch the piston top as it comes up so you can watch for it's highest position. I can't see this being very accurate though just close. Yes definitely get an L20B pulley/timing scale if you can.

 

All L series distributors should be timed like the picture. A tooth off is 18 distributor degrees (36 crank shaft degrees) advance or retard. If you crank the distributor all the way to one side you might get it close enough to run but at the adjustment limit.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, dimedriver said:

Sounds like the oilpump/dizzy spindle is installed incorrectly in the l20. It MUST look like the picture you have quoted other wise the dizzy may not reach correct time. If you moved both the pully and the timing tab as a set from the old motor it is showing you the real timing. Also what dizzy do you have? Get the full number off the side and reffrence the list of hitachi dizzies. The list will tell you weather its a vacume advance or retard dizzy. It can also give you an idea as to what the intial timing should be set to. I would set my ignition timing while the engine was running north of 3000RPM at somewhere in the 30degree advanced range.  Again the list will help you figure out what it should uave been set to in the orginal application.

 

Never heard of a vacuum retard distributor.

 

Initial timing goes by the engine that requires it. An L20B is 12 degrees but it's distributor can be used in an L16 that needs only 10 degrees. You set the timing not the distributor. Initial timing never changes and is the lowest the ignition advance will ever be. In this case idle.

 

Vacuum advance adds advance depending on engine load. Light load high intake vacuum adds more advance. Heavy load low or no vacuum adds very little or no advance. This is on top of the initial 12 degrees set with the distributor.

 

Mechanical advance is strictly based on engine RPM. Higher RPM meas more advance. Generally by 3,000 all the mechanical advance is in. Datsun L series like to have a total advance (initial 12 and about 20-22 mechanical) of about 32-34. This depends on the distributor used and if stock or modified engine but generally in the low to mid 30s.

 

Now if out on the highway at cruise (light throttle) you may have 12 + 22 + 10-15 vacuum advance for close to 50 total advance and if decelerating down a steep hill even higher. As soon as you step on the gas, manifold vacuum drops drastically and vacuum advance drops or disappears.