HRH Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Okay, so after getting the exact truck I wanted (4x4 ext.cab, 4 cyl)....I found it may not have been what I wanted. See the gas mileage thread started a while back. Talked with my Datsun guru on this as he doesn't think his '93 2wd ext. cab hardbody gets good enough mileage at 26 mpg. His old 720 shop truck gets 30, but that might be due to the LZ24 injected 13:1 compression motor. Has plenty of power, even as old and abused as it is. Too bad the truck is rusted to shit! Anyway, we basically came up with the conclusion that, though the KA24E is a great motor, the hardbodies are too damn heavy (mine's 3800), and the KA doesn't have the snot to pull it around. So short of dropping the V6 in (which gets better mileage than my 16.5 mpg avg with 30 inch mud tires), we need to beef up the KAs. So more compression equals more power, so when I pull the motor out this summer to address the leaking rear main or trans input (both of which I changed, annoyingly) I'll probably shave .060 off the head to liven it up. Think it's only around 9.1:1 or so, might even be 8.9:1. Of course, I was also thinking about improving the low end torque. Usually I go just the opposite, but in this case, I want a torque curve like that wretched Z20 motor in the previous 720. It was like a tractor from 1500 to 4500. After that it fell on it's face, but it's a small motor in a big 4x4, I'm not going to go fast with it. I would like at least 2 miles more per gallon though, and off road torque is much more desirable for this application. So shaving the head is cheap and easy, and well within limits with the dish of the pistons and the stock EFI system. May have to turn down the timing a little, but again, not a upper rpm cruiser. A slow and high mud tire cruiser. A reground cam also isn't too expensive, but what to go with? Does anyone know of a true RV cam for the KA? Something that came in a bus or van? Or should I just go with the extra compression and a mild cam, assuming with the extra compression the lower rpm will have more oomph anyway? I was actually curious to go take a look at the Z24 cam and see if it was a more RVish profile, and if it fits in. Probably doesn't, but just a thought. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment
BJW's FiveTen's Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 One word. Gears I know 30" tires should not kill your mileage, but they do. You would be better off with lower gears. Best mileage I ever got in my old 85 runner was with 5.29 gears and 33" tires 70mph at 2800. I use to work at ARB And at Randys Ring & Pinion,and it would surprise you the benefits of re-gearing for taller tires and or towing. Just a thought Thanks Bryce Quote Link to comment
greybeard Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 +1 on the gears, be careful cutting that much off your cyl. head, cam timing will change and have to be corrected. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Yeah, I thought about that, but the thing has 4.375 gears already and I think the optional tire size with that ratios was a 31 inch tire. The only other size I can do (cheaply) is 4.62s out of a V6 truck. Although now that I wrote that, that's interesting, a V6 with better power, but steeper gears. Hmmmm. What mileage did you get and what motor were you running in the Toy? Cam timing will change? Shouldn't change if just taking some off the head. Going to have to shim the cam towers but that's normal, and it keeps the same ratio. Quote Link to comment
sanitys Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 you can use the 240sx parts in the truck motor. There are a few slight differences but you can get around them. check out http://www.oandjperformance.com/ also http://www.ka-t.org has a vast amount of knowledge regarding the KA. Many of the posters have 500+ hp on the ka. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Yeah, not going to go turbo though. Just NA for the truck. Simple, inexpensive, less to break. I wonder if Nissan ever used the KA in a forklift? That might be an interesting cam.....hmmm. Quote Link to comment
BJW's FiveTen's Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Yeah, I thought about that, but the thing has 4.375 gears already and I think the optional tire size with that ratios was a 31 inch tire. The only other size I can do (cheaply) is 4.62s out of a V6 truck. Although now that I wrote that, that's interesting, a V6 with better power, but steeper gears. Hmmmm. What mileage did you get and what motor were you running in the Toy? Cam timing will change? Shouldn't change if just taking some off the head. Going to have to shim the cam towers but that's normal, and it keeps the same ratio. This was almost 10yrs ago now, but if I remember On the freeway long distance I want to say around 25, Around town I was averaging around 18-22, and I was a lot younger/stupid and was always on the go pedal. Loved how the tires barked with the spool in the rear. Quote Link to comment
sanitys Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Yeah, not going to go turbo though. Just NA for the truck. Simple, inexpensive, less to break. I wonder if Nissan ever used the KA in a forklift? That might be an interesting cam.....hmmm. there are people on that site that have na builds. If memory serves people go turbo due to the high cost of a building a NA motor. I guess it depends on your power goals. I plan on getting the o and j stage 2 cam, oversized valves, soild lifters and a port/polish as far as headwork goes. the car pistons use a different kinda wrist pin, but like i said its easily fixed. Id get more indepth but my memory isnt the best, must be that im getting old, ha heres a sticky from the site, you can ignore the turbo stuff, has all the cam/piston/etc info towards the bottom. These are the Prerequisites to building a SOHC Turbo. Together we will go through typical setups from mild to extreme to reach the power goals you desire. These are lists of typically used items that are easily attainable by the average person. All setups should have the Air to Fuel Ratio verified on a dyno with wideband or at very least on a track using an in-car wideband setup (NO watching the standard O2 signal and calling it good). If your using pump gas and seeing air to fuel ratios more lean than 11.8:1-12:1, some rethinking on the tuning/fuel setup will be needed. A narrowband guage(typical A/F guage from Autometer for instance) is not complex enough to be a real indication of the ratios inside your combustion chamber. Very Mild Build: around 180 rwhp Turbo Manifold Blow Off Valve Turbo (T25) Downpipe 2.5" is perfectly fine Pipe to connect turbo to throttle body Fuel Control: FMU (not recommended, but doable) Raises fuel pressure per boost to make injectors flow more than normal. DSM 450cc Injectors or Comparable (These injectors are low impedence, while the ECU requires high impedence. Making it necessary to wire in resistors to alter that so the ECU can control them. These can be found at places found at the bottom) Apexi SAFC2 Greddy Emanage Mild power adder, say you want around 200 rwhp. Turbo Manifold Blow Off Valve Small Intercooler (potentially get away with a side mount) Turbo T25/T28/14B, etc. Smaller T2 setups. Usually will be internally wastegated. Downpipe 2.5" is perfectly fine Replacing the Exhaust is starting to be very necessary at this stage, so I would start to shop for that as well. Fuel Control DSM 450cc Injectors Apexi SAFC2 Greddy Emanage Back off base timing at distributor or MSD BTM Average: 300 rwhp to 350 rwhp, you have to start to expect a little more lag. This is about the perfect "street car" limit. No race gas, just good honest street car fun that is fully capable of bring home a 12 second timeslip on a good run. Turbo Manifold T3/T04E .50 Trim compressor, .60 trim compressor housing / Stg 3 (aka TA31) turbine wheel, .48 to .63 A/R exhaust housing. Internal wastegate optional but not recommended. Downpipe can still be 2.5", but this is as far as I would want to push that. Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) It's time to upgrade to a larger front mount as the larger will push more air than the smaller sidemount can cool. Fuel Control 550cc Injectors SAFC2 to control your fuel injectors, along with the stock ecu. MSD BTM At this stage I would be running the BTM to control timing retard. Reflashed ECU-This can be a DIY thing with Eprom Tuning or a JWT. This is the largest JWT is capable of flashing for those that want it. Z32 Maf is required, as the stock Maf stops being able to read at around 260 rwhp. Wideband O2 Sensor should be installed for tuning. Block Internals This is where I would start to consider it necessary to replace you pistons. Above Average: 350 rwhp to 425 rwhp Turbo Manifold Blow Off Valve T3/T04E 50 Trim .48/.63 or slightly larger turbo, this is where I would start to make the switch up to an external wastegate. You have the option to reroute it back into the exhaust, or merely "dump" it out into the open. "Dump" is usually a mini exhaust in the form of 1.5" piping routed out to the open. FMIC Larger is starting to be necessary. Typical for setups from here on, are 12"x24"x3" for the core. Downpipe 3", at this point I would switch to the larger downpipe. You can probably get away with it at 2.5", but it will be causing a little bit of backpressure. Moving to 3" piping as quickly as possible is what you want though. Usually it is necessary to have the first bend 2.5" to clear the steering shaft though. Exhaust 3" Block Internals At this stage you'll want to "build" or fortify your block to better handle boost. Previous to this you can walk the line, but here and forward I find it necessary to do so. Forged Rods Forged Pistons Stock Crank Plus your typical rebuild items. Fuel Control Standalone fuel management is recommended at this stage in the game and is absolutely necessary at the next. These allow you control not only very large injectors, but the tuner to have complete control over both timing and fuel. 720cc Injectors. Wideband O2 Sensor is necessary for tuning. Wild Build: 425 rwhp to 600 rwhp. Lag is obviously going to be much more apparent, full boost isn't going to happen until around 4000-5000 rpms or so. Once spooled it will pull very hard. Turbo Manifold Turbo T3/T61/SC61 or GT35R seem to be the typical turbo's in the area. External Wastegate is your only option that should be considered. Blow Off Valve You'll want a good performing more expensive blow off valve to alleviate reverted air when the throttle body closes from pushing against the compressor wheel. FMIC the 24"x12"x3" Core's are still effective in this range. Downpipe 3" is still capable of handling these power levels Exhaust 3" or larger Fuel Control 720cc-1600cc Injectors Standalone Fuel Management Recommeded to switch to Map instead of Maf for reading airflow. Wideband 02 Sensor installed and wired into standalone for adjustments and monitoring. Dyno tuning is very valuable. Block Internals Along with the previously mentioned internals I would add these to the list Cam (per your discretion) Build your head as well Solid Lifter Conversion (not required, but not a bad idea) Valve Springs Valve Retainers ARP Head/Main Studs Cometic Headgasket or similar Absolute turbo necessities...amongst the aforementioned goodies above. Oil Lines (Picture of good return location) Boost gauge Here's lists of aftermarket products that are currently on the market Turbo Build Parts Turbo Manifold (Exhaust Manifold) JGS Precision Realnissan.com Import-AutoPerformance.com Nizzx.com BOV Tial Greddy RS JGS HKS SSQV Wastegates Tial JGS Turbonetics Block Internals Pistons: Can be accomplished one of two ways, by purchasing ones that are made for the E with their intended compression ratio. The other is to use DE pistons and subtract a full compression point to equal the difference between the E and DE head. (ie 9:1 DE pistons will be 8:1 in an E) Arias 8.8:1(E) Wiseco 9:1(DE) 8:1(E) JE Ross 8.5:1(E) CP 9:1(DE) 8:1(E) Rods: Any rod that will fit the bottom end of the DE will work with E as well. Crower Pauter Carillo Eagle (release tbd) Bearings Whatever your preference is for rebuilds. Mine is Clevite. Headgasket SCE gaskets Valves SI valves Cams PDM Racing Nissan Motorsports Colt Cams Hybridka.com JWT Technology I put together a text file a while back with cam information for the SOHC KA24E. I figured I'd go ahead and post it here to help out everyone who's always asking about cam specs. Format: Cam name / part number Description Specs Comments from manufacturer / retailer / forum Installation notes (if any) Link to information verifying specs or link to store to order cam ----- KA24E cams Price current as of 10/31/2004 89-90 240sx STOCK cam intake: 240 degrees duration, .409 in valve lift exhaust: 248 degrees duration, .409 in valve lift http://home.att.net/~mabuhaycarlos/Cam.html 90-97 Hardbody STOCK cam intake: 232 degrees duration, .382 in valve lift exhaust: 232 degrees duration, .382 in valve lift http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=58181 (from lovemysan2's factory service manual) HybridKA - KA24E Stage 1 GB4 $185 + core charge (?) Intake 270 duration, .443" Lift Exhaust 272 duration, .448" Lift note: core exchange required http://www.hybridka.com/sohccustom.htm 4x4parts - High Performance Cam $319.95 Billet, no core required 270 degrees duration, .402 in valve lift (same as R4 Nismo cam) "These cams will give you a 15% increase in horsepower. They are ground to specification for optimum setting. Specifically designed to increase midrange performance. .402"/270* lift and duration. Highly recommended to replace stock rocker arms which are sold separately. 12 required. All cams are ground from billet, not reground." http://www.4x4parts.com/public_html/shop/index.php3?page=shop/flypage&product_id=420&category_id=d83c52bffc119371a2f10b1a45e7c5d6&ps_session=c9f7a978eb39d1625fd6eb0725d8c89e PDM - C.406 $200 + $250 core charge Regrind, requires stock core Intake 260 degrees duration, .424 in valve lift Exhaust 268 degrees duration, .441 in valve lift "mild performance upgrade, that wakes up any stock engine with good emissions results, and good in automatics." http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/cam_corner.html PDM - C404.H $200 + $250 core charge Regrind, requires stock core Intake: 268 degrees duration, .441 in valve lift Exhaust: 272 degrees duration, .447 in valve lift "Strong performer, with good midrange pull to redline. O.K. with automatics. Our strongest seller with the most smiles!" note: requires cam towers to be milled .025 in http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/cam_corner.html PDM - C.404.HTurbo $200 + $250 core charge Regrind, requires stock core Intake: 268 degrees duration, .441 in valve lift Exhaust: 272 degrees duration, .447 in valve lift "Same strong performance as our naturally aspirated C404 cam, but designed with less overlap to ease with the exhaust valves on a turbo motor. Very good good midrange pull to redline." note: requires cam towers to be milled .025 http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/cam_corner.html PDM - C.411.H $300 + $250 core charge Regrind, requires stock core Intake: 300 degrees duration, .506 in valve lift Exhaust: 300 degrees duration, .506 in valve lift "Full race - not very streetable, and requires stiffer valve springs, computer re-programming and possible injector and fuel pump upgrades. Not a bolt-in cam, and not recommended for street use." note: requires cam towers to be milled .060" http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/cam_corner.html Gude Bullfrog - Performance Cam: Part # NSCS03 (909) 244-3533 intake: 228 degrees duration, .500 in valve lift exhaust: 228 degrees duration, .500 in valve lift "First time I called to speak to a rep, a female who assisted me was only able to quote me a price for the cam which was $577.50. Second time I called, I spoke to Bill himself. He told me there was a 15 HP increase in the high rpm range. Then HE quoted me a price of the cam for $750. ??? Then he turned into a salesmen and tried to sell me a head package (including the cam) for a 40 HP increase. Becareful with these guys, although they DO great work, just make sure all quotes are correct." http://home.att.net/~mabuhaycarlos/Cam.html Description: Strong from 4000 rpm to redline Power band: 4000 rpm to 6800 rpm Idle: Good http://www.gude.com Jim Wolf Technology - Part # A2409-N00S1 (Discontinued) (619) 442-0680 "Jim Wolf has discontinued their auto-cross billet cam. A 2nd cam for the SOHC 240 is in still in development and won't be avaliable till late September. Jim Wolf rep told me that the cam will sell around $400." http://home.att.net/~mabuhaycarlos/Cam.html Nissan Motorsports: (310) 538-2610 Nissan Motorsports - R6 "High Performance" $317.50 (866) 754-5500 (nissanparts.cc) intake: 248 degrees duration, .422 in valve lift exhaust: 256 degrees duration, .422 in valve lift "R6 is a milder cam designed to work with automatic trans" http://www.nissanparts.cc/catalog/?section=316 Nissan Motorsports - R4 "High Performance" $317.50 (866) 754-5500 (nissanparts.cc) intake: 270 degrees duration, .402 in valve lift exhaust: 270 degrees duration, .402 in valve lift "The R4 camshaft is a mild range/loopy idle for manual trans cars" http://www.nissanparts.cc/catalog/?section=316 "I talked to a female rep at Nissan motorsports. She told me the cams were currently out of stock, they sell for about $300 and at 6000 RPM there is a 20 HP increase." http://home.att.net/~mabuhaycarlos/Cam.html Nissan Motorsports - R5 "Race" $317.50 (866) 754-5500 (nissanparts.cc) intake: 288 degrees duration, .550 in valve lift exhaust: 292 degrees duration, .563 in valve lift "The R5 race cam requires the use of race pistons and alternate valve train components." http://www.nissanparts.cc/catalog/?section=316 Nissan Motorsports - KA24E billet blank $190.50 (866) 754-5500 (nissanparts.cc) "Cam lobes are underground. SOHC 12-valve engine only." http://www.nissanparts.cc/catalog/?section=316 Nissan Motorsports - KA24E cam sprocket $66.04 (866) 754-5500 (nissanparts.cc) "OE KA24 SOHC sprocket modified to use offset bushing for adjusting cam timing. Selection of bushings included. For use with OE timing chain only." http://www.nissanparts.cc/catalog/?section=316 Solid Lifter Conversion Kit Hybridka.com Typical Injectors Used on SOHC DSM (Eclipse/Talon/Laser) 450cc Injectors *Low Impedence* RX-7 T2 550cc Injectors *High Impedence* Denso 195500-2020 RX7 FC NA Top feed 460cc Low *86-87* RX7 FC NA Top feed 460cc High *88* RX7 FC NA Top feed 460cc High *89-91* RX7 FC turbo Top feed 550cc Low *86-87* RX7 FC turbo Top feed 550cc High *88* RX7 FC turbo Top feed 550cc High *89-91* RX7 FC NA Top feed 680cc Low *84-85* CA18DET 370cc Injectors *Low Impedence* Injector Resistors (To alter low impedence to work with a high impedence ecu) JWT Technology JGS Precision Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 webcamshafts.com http://www.webcamshafts.com/index_blank.html?pages/vehicle_search.html Quote Link to comment
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