Goon front suspension...

[Just Joel]

Looking at building my first goon and considering the front suspension in terms up upgrades and lowering the ride height. I’ve been reading quite a bit over the past week or so and it seems that a lot of people like the 280zx front strut/break setup. Based on this information, I'm currently trying to track down a set but in the mean time was considering cutting down my existing stock struts to accommodate a new set of 280zx inserts. Now, after further reading, I find that some are considering even shorter inserts over the 280zx's. My current plan is to go as low as I can without sacrificing ride quality. From what I've read that seems to be between 2" and 2.5" on the rear of a goon, so I need to figure the front will need to match accordingly. Should I consider shorter inserts than the 280's or are they going to be what I want? I'm well versed in all fazes of metal fabrication so the work doesn't scare me, I just want to make sure I do it right the first time. ;)

 

Also on a related note, I can find lots of info on high end adjustable shock inserts but I never intend to race this car and am more interested in a generally good ride and just enough improved handling to make the car fun to drive on a twisty road. With that said, will a standard set of KYB shocks and inserts perform well enough to achieve my goal? I understand that you get what you pay for when it comes to suspension but I just want to make sure I'm not over spending for things I don't necessarily need.

 

Thanks

Joel

Edited September 28, 2009 by Just Joel

[jesusno2]

Well take it from me if ya wanna do it right the first time throw the stock 510 stuff in the scrap metal bin! Find a set of 280zx struts cut the spring perches off buy some coilovers and camber plates and bumpsteer spacers. Or do what I did search for honda civic coil overs (cause their dirt cheap used) machine the collars out to 2 inch (if you have acess to a lathe) I have some weld rings for the zx struts if ya need some. That's the best way to setup the front. Lowering springs or cut stock springs or terrible and bottom out everwhere ya go and destroys the strut. The best insert for the money is the tokico blues. With that setup you'll be plenty low without chopping up a good strut. The rear of the goons is where problems occur. This winter I'm gonna be in the process of 4 linking my wagon to hopefully solve those issues.

[Just Joel]

Ultimately, yes... that’s the plan ;) But in the mean time, I’d like to let the air out a bit and decide where I ultimately want it... My current plan is to cut the springs to drop it an inch then re weld the coil buckets lower to level the rid. This should keep the ride from getting to stiff and lower in enough for now so I can try out the height.

 

Now, for the inserts... Are the 280zx shocks short enough or should I look into an even shorter/better option. Anyone have any specs that might help?

 

And has anyone had any experience with KYB's? Are they decent? Like I said... I'm not racing this car, I just want a better. more firmer ride than stock.

 

Thanks

Joel

[benzo]

for me I used 280ZX struts with ground control coil overs and tokico HP (blues) in front and tokico hp in the rear with 2 inch blocks. I would not go any lower unless you plan on doing some mods or going 4 link in the rear. KYB is good for the money and at this point anything is better than stock as the stock stuff is worn out. I would go Tokico over KYB as I know they can handle lowering better then KYB. I believe you can use a tokico shock insert from like a MR2 for the front and cut the housing to get more travel. this is better if you want a better ride quality. good luck with your choice.

[Just Joel]

I thought that was the point of using the 280zx struts? I understand that the MR2's are shorter still but how short do I need to go if I'm only lowering it 2 inches? I would think that eventually I can get too short of insert and not have enough travel...

 

I contacted my local distributor and they will warranty the KYB's for life so I figure I cant go wrong...

 

Thanks

Joel

[benzo]

you are correct as the zx struts do have more travel but some make it even shorter for even more travel. 2 inch low is not a lot but some look at it as it never hurts to have more travel to make ride comfort well and maximize handling.

 

tokico also offers lifetime warranty also. food for thought. also if you need tokico I supply them also as well as ground control

[WagDatto]

Benzo, what about shocks for the rear of a 'Goon? I've always heard "Camaro short stroke" but wtf does that mean?! Fill me in!!!

[jesusno2]

the 80's camero use the same shock as the goon their just shorter i belive. pretty sure the napa websight gives a lenght difference. im still using the stuck kyb rear shocks for the goon my car is fairly low i still have quite a bit of shock travel left.

[Just Joel]

But if you use blocks, the u-bolt plates don't move. Why would you need shorter shocks in the back?

 

Later

Joel

[Just Joel]

you are correct as the zx struts do have more travel but some make it even shorter for even more travel. 2 inch low is not a lot but some look at it as it never hurts to have more travel to make ride comfort well and maximize handling.

 

tokico also offers lifetime warranty also. food for thought. also if you need tokico I supply them also as well as ground control

 

You have mail ;) and are they warranted through the factory or through local dealers?

[LeX]

for the rear of a goon i heard good things about these..

 

 

monroe sensa-trac Part # 58568

 

since i'm blocking the rear didn't need a shortened strut.. will let you guys know how it goes. My rear is relatively firm but I get a lot of lean.. so seeing how these will do

Edited October 4, 2009 by LeX

[Just Joel]

I've seen those but fear the ride will get to stiff... What about an aftermarket sway bar for the rear to combat the lean? What brands are good?

 

Thanks

Joel

[benzo]

Joel. here is my email bull_ogna@hotmail.com. in the case of a wagon you are right as some have pointed out that if you use blocks you don't move the shock height but moving to a shorter stroke shock could not hurt as that may help with better dampening. as for warranties you can warranty from the factory or through a dealer given a dealer knows how to do the program. what I normally do is have the person who is warrantying shocks buy a replacement first and then have them give the worn out ones so I can send to the factory and when the factory clears the old ones for warranty they issue me a credit and then I issue a credit the end user/purchaser.

 

I have been so busy lately with wedding stuff I have not had a chance or enough money to try different shocks for my wagon. I will be testing out the 97-01 explorer fronts and camaros as well as others with similar mount points. It just takes time as I have to raid my friends warehouse and put all the shocks out and compare

 

I personally would not go lower than 2" on a wagon as the diff will hit the driveline tunnel. mine is hitting now. the only remedy would be to cut the tunnel and make another plate for more room but you have to see how much room you have for the rear seat to be in position. I also cut my bumpstops and that helped quite a bit for comfort without bottoming out. I personally have not seen cars that are super low handle any better. mainly for looks. to get good handling you need matched parts,good travel and good wheel and tire combinations.

 

i have a rear bar and that helped a lot. just takes a bit getting used to in the beginning as it does create more oversteer. I am using the addco bar and it is not bad. there are not to many companes that make a rear bar. One item I feel wagons can benefit from is a panhardbar. anything more I would say go 4 link but that is a whole new story and money to bring up.

[WagDatto]

Yeah, if I were only using blocks, I wouldn't need the shorter shocks. Currently, I'm using de-arched springs as well as 2.5" blocks. I had to cut the driveshaft tunnel to keep the diff from smacking the floor on accelleration. Soon, I'll be lower the springs more and removing my blocks again. Rough approximation is 4.5" lower than stock, though I haven't measured height of mine vs stock... If someone can measure stock 'goon height just in front of the wheel arch, I'd love to compare numbers!

 

Okay, so assuming Camaro shocks are what I'm going with, I'm assuming I need to know how much lower I am than stock, and just find a shock that fits the stroke I need?

 

Thanks and sorry for not checking back in, I read more than I write...

[72wagun]

...If someone can measure stock 'goon height just in front of the wheel arch, I'd love to compare numbers! ...

 

I did some quick measurements. Mine's pretty much completely stock.

 

Front wheel arch about 25 1/2"

 

Rear wheel arch about 25"

 

While I was at it I measured from the bottom of my diff to the ground. About 6"

 

And, also from front x-member to ground. It's hard to tell in the pic, but it's about 7 1/2"

[Just Joel]

Diff height wont change unless you change tires :P

 

Later

Joel

[WagDatto]

Diff height wont change unless you change tires :P

 

Later

Joel

 

Or wheels!

 

Thanks for the pictures, man. It's cold and dark out tonight but tomorrow morning I might try to run out with a measuring tape. Mine will be a hair off since my front fenders are flared fiberglass and the rear wheel arches are hammered to sin to clear my wheels... But crossmember is a good measuring point!

 

If you go out again tomorrow, can you measure a point on the body like right behind the front fender and right in front of the rear wheel arch? Then it will be a bit more standard regardless of flare, fender or anything else.

[72wagun]

Diff height wont change unless you change tires :P

 

Later

Joel

 

Right, since not everyone has the same wheels and tires. You're right it won't make a big difference in most cases. I figured the information might be interesting to some. If you just want to know how much your suspension mods have changed your ride height compared to stock, you can measure your diff height, and subtract it from your wheel arch height. Then subtract my diff height from my wheel arch, and compare the two. Subtract the two resulting measurements, and you know exactly how much your axle has moved closer to the body.

 

Or wheels!

 

Thanks for the pictures, man. It's cold and dark out tonight but tomorrow morning I might try to run out with a measuring tape. Mine will be a hair off since my front fenders are flared fiberglass and the rear wheel arches are hammered to sin to clear my wheels... But crossmember is a good measuring point!

 

If you go out again tomorrow, can you measure a point on the body like right behind the front fender and right in front of the rear wheel arch? Then it will be a bit more standard regardless of flare, fender or anything else.

 

I guess that's what you asked for in the first place. Now I see why you asked for it that way. I tried to get the camera pointing pretty much level at the tape becuase it is hard to get the tape tight up against the side of the car. The way the measurements show in the pictures is pretty accurate. I measured it a few ways.

 

Rear lower corner of rear door. bottom edge of door about 13 1/2"

 

Front lower corner of front door. Bottom edge of door about 12 3/8"

[WagDatto]

Thanks, that's crazy helpful! My car used to be that Pea Green color... Favorite stock 510 color! What size wheels/tires are you rolling on? I tried to hold the camera even, too, but it's hard balancing on one knee, holding the tape measure and trying to take a picture!!

 

15" tires with 50 series tires for me.

 

Rear door = around 9.75"

 

Front door = around 9"

 

Just for kicks, I did the wheel arches. I couldnt to the crossmember or the axle without laying down and straining, so I held off today...

 

Rear wheel arch = around 21.25"

 

Front wheel arch = around 20.75"

 

EDIT: So assuming wheel/tire size is the same, and we're on level ground (which is hard for me, since the garage is full this morning, so I was in the driveway on a slight slant... That roughly gives me ABOUT 4" lower than stock in the rear and 3.5" lower in front. Not bad!

Edited October 11, 2009 by WagDatto

[72wagun]

Yeah, Wagdatto, I saw pictures of the inside of your wagon before you painted it, and it looked just like mine! Yours looks good. That's about how low I expected it to be after seeing your build thread. Mine won't be getting lowered that much, but I got a set of 280zx struts that I'm going to put on and lower when I get the time. Anyway, right now it's all stock suspension with stock steel 13" wheels, and 165/80 tires.

 

Btw, Joel, sorry to highjack your thread. Have you looked at Mike Klotz's thread on struts? He shortened his stock 510 struts, put in 300zx inserts, and moved the spring perches down.

 

Here is one of the very useful pics from that thread:

 

The longer inserts are the stock 510 ones, the shortest one is for the 300zx, and the middle length one is for the 280zx.

[Spades]

for the rear of a goon i heard good things about these..

 

 

monroe sensa-trac Part # 58568

 

since i'm blocking the rear didn't need a shortened strut.. will let you guys know how it goes. My rear is relatively firm but I get a lot of lean.. so seeing how these will do

 

yeah...you wouldnt want those for a lowered wagon. they are overload struts. they give you more ride height and load capacity. i put them on my 72 cause I wanted more height in the back for bigger tires and a muscle car look.

 

if you are blocking it they would be ok, cause the only thing moving is the diff, but for suspension drops other than blocks, i wouldnt recommend it,lol.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Spades

[Just Joel]

Yeah, Wagdatto, I saw pictures of the inside of your wagon before you painted it, and it looked just like mine! Yours looks good. That's about how low I expected it to be after seeing your build thread. Mine won't be getting lowered that much, but I got a set of 280zx struts that I'm going to put on and lower when I get the time. Anyway, right now it's all stock suspension with stock steel 13" wheels, and 165/80 tires.

 

Btw, Joel, sorry to highjack your thread. Have you looked at Mike Klotz's thread on struts? He shortened his stock 510 struts, put in 300zx inserts, and moved the spring perches down.

 

Here is one of the very useful pics from that thread:

 

The longer inserts are the stock 510 ones, the shortest one is for the 300zx, and the middle length one is for the 280zx.

 

Oh yeah, read that one front to back a couple times... I'm trying to find info about the length of the MR2 inserts now, trying to consider how short they NEED to be. It seems that the 280zx inserts will probably be just fine for how low I want to go (about 2")

 

Later

Joel

[WagDatto]

I just ordered up the MR2 inserts today. I went with Tokico Illumina's, as I've heard nothing but good things about them. AGX's I've heard different reviews...

 

Part number is #3099 for the Tokico Illumina's. They're the REAR shocks for a 87-89 Toyota MR2. Nobody had really listed exactly what year/placement it was, so I did some digging and figured it out, so I can spread it around.

 

They should be here by Tuesday at the latest. Can't wait to get not only better shocks, but a better ride quality at this height, too! No more bottoming out my struts!!

[benzo]

Man if I had been reading into this more or knew you needed a exact part # I could of gave that to you or sold you a set. sorry man for not reading into this more.

 

the shocks should help a lot. have fun

[Just Joel]

What is the length difference with the MR2's over stock 510 inserts?

 

Thanks

Joel