Rebuilt Z24 Distributor Spindle Position help

[Desert720]

Hello fellow ratsun enthusiasts. I have had an eventful time rebuilding my z24, assembling it myself from a rebuilt short block and rebuilt head. All has gone fairly well and now after installing the engine and warming up for initial valve adjustment (hot) and checking timing I have found that my timing at idle is at 10 degrees minimum and unable to be twisted further as the adjustment slot on the distributor pedestal is contacting the distributor mount bolts. After reading and re-reading closely the similar posts in which datsunmike has offered his help and posted the image of the distributor drive spindle in its correct “11:25” position when viewed with the distributor removed and engine set at TDC #1 Compression Stroke I have my doubts of whether or not my drive spindle is in fact at this same “11:25” position. I very well may need to remove the oil pump, align punch marks and reinstall in order to better match correct spindle position. Perhaps I am a tooth off on the pump/dizzy drive worm gear as it rides on the crank? Thoughts please. Not quite time for the initial oil change but I will drain if necessary. Worried too much advance may be harming this fresh engine. Thank you all!

 

 

datsunmike’s correct drive spindle position:

 

My engine’s current drive spindle position:

[captain720]

Drive the front wheels on blocks to raise the front half, all the oil will run to the back of the pan and you can take the pump out without draining. My 2 cents is just take it out and turn it. You can actually make some marks and get a rough idea of how much timing you can get without starting it if you are willing to take the cap on and off a couple times so you can feel more confident that you won't pull too much and blow your new motor. One tooth doesn't equate to that much movement on the other end of the spindle so just try one. I have found that usually when it is on the right tooth you don't have to "go to an extreme" with the distributor motion. Do you have a timing gun?

[datzenmike]

It won't siphon out but you will always have a few drips when you lift away the pump. Have a large rag under the work space to catch it. Keep the pump in the same position so it doesn't spill and you have to refill it.

 

Each tooth is 18⁰ of distributor or 36⁰ of crankshaft movement.

 

Top to bottom point is only 20⁰ so actually a lot and may start one tooth out in either direction but the distributor may be adjusted full in one direction to compensate..

[Desert720]

51 minutes ago, captain720 said:

Drive the front wheels on blocks to raise the front half, all the oil will run to the back of the pan and you can take the pump out without draining. My 2 cents is just take it out and turn it. You can actually make some marks and get a rough idea of how much timing you can get without starting it if you are willing to take the cap on and off a couple times so you can feel more confident that you won't pull too much and blow your new motor. One tooth doesn't equate to that much movement on the other end of the spindle so just try one. I have found that usually when it is on the right tooth you don't have to "go to an extreme" with the distributor motion. Do you have a timing gun?

Great call on raising the front end. 
Yes, I learned on my last remanufactured engine that suffered a very premature death to now rely only on myself and my own mistakes. I paid a good friend and full time Ford dealer technician to swap over my accessories and install a crate motor thinking I was doing right by my truck in the long term by having him “do it right” the first time but after installing it basically slapped together it never ran correctly partly due to a then badly set up Weber which he did not touch nor did he bother to set the timing initially for me. Nail in the coffin was the engine getting hot at around 5k miles after I literally begged to pay him his hourly rate to loosen and re-torque the head bolts as per this forum at 500 miles. By that point he was well beyond done with me questioning his professional knowledge as he had never heard of an engine needing a retorque so soon and was not enjoying working nights and weekends to get it done. Ultimately by the time I had a sufficient level of concern with head gasket failure to overcome my timid-ness of doing it myself and going and buying my own torque wrench it was much too late 10k miles later I had major compression loss between cylinders. So long story short I now own the necessary tools for diagnostic/assembly, an FSM and the experience to know that the only person likely to care enough to do right by this truck is and always was me and me alone! 

 That said I couldn’t put a price on the wealth of knowledge and records of others mistakes to learn from and avoid that have been indispensable in this journey. Thank you again and the whole ratsun community 

[Desert720]

29 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

It won't siphon out but you will always have a few drips when you lift away the pump. Have a large rag under the work space to catch it. Keep the pump in the same position so it doesn't spill and you have to refill it.

 

Each tooth is 18⁰ of distributor or 36⁰ of crankshaft movement.

 

Top to bottom point is only 20⁰ so actually a lot and may start one tooth out in either direction but the distributor may be adjusted full in one direction to compensate..

Great insight here mike thank you. 
 So as I withdraw the oil pump and it’s spindle which direction would I rotate it to attempt to get that one tooth in the right direction? Will the pump need to be fully bolted in and then the engine rotated around twice back to tdc C in order to accurately assess if I indeed clocked the drive spindle successfully into the correct position or would I be able to know that immoderately after reinserting and bolting up the oil pump and drive spindle ? 

[datzenmike]

Start at TDC, make adjustment and look in distributor hole. The drive is a worm gear so it will twist as it goes in and it's hard to get right. Maybe have someone watch as it comes up into place. Another thing is to set the set the spindle into the pump like this bottom...

 

  

 

 

[Desert720]

4 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Start at TDC, make adjustment and look in distributor hole. The drive is a worm gear so it will twist as it goes in and it's hard to get right. Maybe have someone watch as it comes up into place. Another thing is to set the set the spindle into the pump like this bottom...

 

  

 

 

Ok great so if I understand correctly I should be able to judge if I have made the adjustment to the drive spindle correctly as I seat the oil pump( with properly aligned punch mark) into place against the front cover as the spindle and worm gear will mesh into their respective positions as soon as the pump is bolted in place and won’t require any revolutions of the crank in order to accurately check the drive spindle’s position and should stay more or less where they are after oil pump is torqued to spec and I put the rest back together to run engine and re-check timing with light?

[datzenmike]

The spindle is set in relation to TDC. If you are at TDC then you're good to move the spindle.

 

Lining the dots up and pushing the oil pump into place should be close. Like I said it's a worm gear and the spindle will turn slightly during engagement. Trial and error keep trying till you get the magic 11:25

 

 

I'd say this is pretty close.