510 won't go into gear.

[Acuna989]

MORE PROBLEMS

 

Everything was good again for about a week. Until shifting started to get further and further up the pedal. No I cant get the car into gear when its running. When the car is off it goes in with no trouble. Re-installed the clutch last night hoping I would find something, but came up with nothing. The only thing I haven't done is resurface the flywheel.

 

Current set up:

Transmission:

close ratio 280zx trans/ 80W90 gear oil

 

Clutch components:

OEM(Nissan) Roadster PP 30210-20111

OEM(Nissan) 510 sleeve 30501-N1604

OEM (Datsun) throughout/pilot bearing 200mm

Pilot bearing

Aisin Clutch disc

280 fork

 

New 280 Slave / Soft line

New Master cylinder/ Hard line

I've also bled the the system about 10 times

 

18lb Torque

 

[datzenmike]

Just replaced the slave with a 280 replacement from Orielys and bled the system. I'm able to get into all gears now except for reverse, where it immediately grinds. I don't have the reverse lockout hooked up yet. I was under the impression that it just prevents you from getting into reverse when the car is already moving...........Maybe the slave needs to bled more

.

The 280 trans didn't have the reverse check sleeve but the '80 and on 280zx did. The check sleeve only prevents you down shifting from 5th into reverse. As long as you are coming across the neutral gate from left to right you can pull it back into reverse.

 

If grinding entering reverse then the problem is not fixed. The reason you can get into the forward gears is because your synchro rings are being used as a clutch. This is not what they are designed for and this is not at all good for them.

 

The clutch disc is obviously still dragging against the PP or the flywheel. It could be damaged or coming apart or the pressure plate could be damaged or coming apart. (assuming the clutch master and slave are working and bed properly)

[Acuna989]

.

The 280 trans didn't have the reverse check sleeve but the '80 and on 280zx did. The check sleeve only prevents you down shifting from 5th into reverse. As long as you are coming across the neutral gate from left to right you can pull it back into reverse.

 

If grinding entering reverse then the problem is not fixed. The reason you can get into the forward gears is because your synchro rings are being used as a clutch. This is not what they are designed for and this is not at all good for them.

 

The clutch disc is obviously still dragging against the PP or the flywheel. It could be damaged or coming apart or the pressure plate could be damaged or coming apart. (assuming the clutch master and slave are working and bed properly)

All the parts are brand new. Above are the pics I took last night after re-installing everything. I used a clear hose placed in a bottle of clutch fluid to bleed the system and didn't see any air the last four time I bled it. The car can barley go into 2-5th with a ton of resistance and my foot to the floor while the car is running. 

 

Its just weird that it would work perfect for a week and then just crap out. The first roadster kit did the same thing after installing it, maybe its a bad batch or something.

 

I guess my only option at this point is to resurface the flywheel but even that doesn't make sense cause if the flywheel was damaged or worn in any way it wouldn't work right off bat after the initial install. This is driving me NUTS lol 

[Acuna989]

So my game plan as of right now is.

 

1. Adjust the master cylinder plunger to the pedal. ( I can probably get another 1/4 inch out of it)

2. Adjust the angle of the transmission. ( I have a solid mount and it's adjustable )

3. Try a spacer between the fork and slave. (If this works I can drill a hole into the fork and use a 510 slave.)

3. resurface the flywheel.

4. Get a different pressure plate.

 

Anybody have any other ideas?

[datzenmike]

 Was the clutch master bled?

 

Adjust the clutch pedal free play. Should have about 2mm or 1/16" of loose pedal before the pedal becomes firm.

 

Transmission angle won't affect it.

Flywheel surface looks good.

 

Inspect the pressure plate. Is the disc side flat and parallel to the flywheel surface?

Inspect the clutch disc. Is it bent or damaged? Warped? 

[hobbes_the_cat]

Sounds hydraulic to me. One of my 510's over the weekend would slowly loose the ability to disengage the clutch. After bleeding the system it would work for a few runs then right back to no disengagement. I suspect a leak in the master is allowing air into the system.

Have you had some one watch the slave while you press the clutch pedal to make sure it is moving the fork? Did you bench bleed the master and slave cylinders? I have heard of people having constant problems when that is overlooked. 

[datzenmike]

Slave should move 1.18"

 

Was the clutch master bled?

 

Adjust the clutch pedal free play. Should have about 2mm or 1/16" of loose pedal before the pedal becomes firm.

[Acuna989]

The surface of the pressure plate and the clutch disc still look brand new. I didnt bench bleed the master before installing it so It might be an issue, however the throw on the slave looks to be about a little more than an inch. Here's a video of it in action if anybody's interested. http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a546/Datsun989/C8F9C5F0-7D06-48D4-B1A7-B4A65DBBBE2C-248-00000061501C40D9_zpsd8ebf8d5.mp4

[datzenmike]

Well I would say it's moving pretty good. Hydraulics seem ok.

 

 

 

 

 

If you put in 1st gear, then start the motor, then lift the clutch pedal..... Does it engage close to the floor? or part way up like usual???

[Acuna989]

It feels like its barley disengaging enough to start while in gear, so all the way to the floor. 

[datzenmike]

What I wanted to know was when you lift the clutch pedal where does it engage. At the floor or higher up?

 

I wonder if the diaphragm fingers have been bent by having the release bearing on wrong.

 

 

 

Is this bearing pushed on all the way?

 

 

Here are some of mine I've collected over the years.

 

 

Is it possible that the release bearing has pushed the diaphragm fingers in too far and bent them?

[hobbes_the_cat]

^^^ this sounds like a possibility. Or maybe the fork has been bent or cracked and is flexing. I have had one break right where it meets the pivot ball.

[Acuna989]

The clutch engages at the floor. The picture I took is kind of deceiving cause there's actually a riser that's highlighted in yellow in the picture below. The red represents the hub that retains the bearing. The green is the space I left during the install, the bearing seemed to spin easier not seated all the way down.

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing last weekend when I everything apart.  I had an extra 280zx fork that I compared it to and they were exactly the same.

^^^ this sounds like a possibility. Or maybe the fork has been bent or cracked and is flexing. I have had one break right where it meets the pivot ball.

 

I'm kinda thinking that these Pressure plates might be defective. I did purchase them through the same vendor. 

[Acuna989]

Any way the 280 fork and slave would ruin the Pressure plate? I know some most people choose to go with the 510 stuff because its adjustable.

 

Just read this thread http://community.ratsun.net/topic/50929-clutch-5-speed-question/  it seems me and "Stupid_Fast " used the same parts and did the installation basically the same. The only difference is he went through a different vendor for the parts and he used the 510 fork and slave instead of the 280 set up.  

[Acuna989]

I think I got everything squared away.  I extended the master cylinder plunger under the pedal out another inch. I can now shift gears smoothly and everything seems to be working as it should. I got super stoked after I figured everything was good and had to do a few celebratory donuts  :rofl:  Sometimes the answer is staring you right in the face. 

 

Thanks for everybody's help. 

[datzenmike]

You still have pedal play, right??? About 1/16"?????

[Acuna989]

Still have a good amount of pedal play. I actually have too much right now, need to dial it back a little bit. Im going to mess around with it this weekend and try to get the clutch to engauge more towards the top of the pedal. Plus bench bleed the master.