Why so many ka24's?

[captaingamez]

the oldest nissan ecu would be a 1975, and those actually dont exhibit many problems, their fairly simple, just old Bosche L-jetronic, invented in the early 70's they were not eprom systems(unfortunately), and the injectors are super cheap. I installed a 1977 EFI system in a 280z from scratch and it had no issues, after having ripped it out of a junkyard from a car that had not been running in ten years.

 

the first electronic fuel injection system was installed in 1940 FYI, and it was mass produced by GM in 1957, which makes EFI 73 years old, and means it had been on production vehicles for 56 years.

 

Eproms are light sensative, but that is why they are in a box with a light foil sticker on the erasure window. also they have not been shown to lose their programming so far, after 35 years. although they are designed to only last 10-15. but those are all the reasons they dont use them anymore as well.

 

and ECUs are $38.99 where I live, just saying.

 

I dont know where you are coming up with the "it wont last 50 years" thing, I mean theres QUAD video decks from 1962 still running with their original microchips and circuitry, and they havent failed yet, they have thousands upon thousands of these chips per machine and they are all still running in alot of these machines.

 

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[nerdistmonk]

the oldest nissan ecu would be a 1975, and those actually dont exhibit many problems, their fairly simple, just old Bosche L-jetronic, invented in the early 70's they were not eprom systems(unfortunately), and the injectors are super cheap. I installed a 1977 EFI system in a 280z from scratch and it had no issues, after having ripped it out of a junkyard from a car that had not been running in ten years.

 

the first electronic fuel injection system was installed in 1940 FYI, and it was mass produced by GM in 1957, which makes EFI 73 years old, and means it had been on production vehicles for 56 years.

 

Eproms are light sensative, but that is why they are in a box with a light foil sticker on the erasure window. also they have not been shown to lose their programming so far, after 35 years. although they are designed to only last 10-15. but those are all the reasons they dont use them anymore as well.

 

and ECUs are $38.99 where I live, just saying.

 

I dont know where you are coming up with the "it wont last 50 years" thing, I mean theres QUAD video decks from 1962 still running with their original microchips and circuitry, and they havent failed yet, they have thousands upon thousands of these chips per machine and they are all still running in alot of these machines.

 

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 and those quad video decks get regular servicing, also in 1962 computerized would not be the proper term for that....there wouldnt be any chips in that video deck.

edit: your killing me here....an analog tape machine in 1962 with digital ics in it....they didnt start using that stuff till the 70s and it wasnt to power the tape machine it was for the new digital controls and buttons and led displays that were becoming hot stuff.

 

Also fyi those "ecus" you mentioned from the 70s are not the same as the actual computer ecus in the 80s.

I cant go into details about them since i dont have a 70's ecu laying around, not to mention all the 70's vehicles around here do not have them. I certainly wont find no 70s datsuns.

 

and again im glad in your area parts are cheap. sigh.

 

 

Good day sir. Also electronic fuel injection doesnt always mean = computerized fuel injection you dont think that 73 year old efi had a computer? ha.

 

 

edit: im cutting this thread loose, the ratsun mantra seems to be "argue argue argue", im tired of debating about everything, i think im going outside to go work on my ermmm ratsun...

[Uber Deaf One]

the oldest nissan ecu would be a 1975, and those actually dont exhibit many problems, their fairly simple, just old Bosche L-jetronic, invented in the early 70's they were not eprom systems(unfortunately), and the injectors are super cheap. I installed a 1977 EFI system in a 280z from scratch and it had no issues, after having ripped it out of a junkyard from a car that had not been running in ten years.

 

the first electronic fuel injection system was installed in 1940 FYI, and it was mass produced by GM in 1957, which makes EFI 73 years old, and means it had been on production vehicles for 56 years.

 

Eproms are light sensative, but that is why they are in a box with a light foil sticker on the erasure window. also they have not been shown to lose their programming so far, after 35 years. although they are designed to only last 10-15. but those are all the reasons they dont use them anymore as well.

 

and ECUs are $38.99 where I live, just saying.

 

I dont know where you are coming up with the "it wont last 50 years" thing, I mean theres QUAD video decks from 1962 still running with their original microchips and circuitry, and they havent failed yet, they have thousands upon thousands of these chips per machine and they are all still running in alot of these machines.

 

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Oh my gina.... is this a troll thread? I can't tell :( 

[nerdistmonk]

Oh my gina.... is this a troll thread? I can't tell :(

 

I believe it is, thats why i washed my hands of the discussion

Over confidence in machines is what can get you hurt. I see alot of that in this thread, im always ready for my machines to take a crap in many ways, but even yet im still surprised by some of the ways stuff breaks.

 

My last thought is this, datsuns are japanese made, their computers may last 70 years, 7 minutes, 47 years or 8 months, but the fact is I will never trust one to do any of that, I wont trust any machine to do what someone thinks it should do when in reality it may do something no one thought it would

[captaingamez]

First of all I keep chiming in because I have to make corrections to the statements made here. if you all did your research here and knew everything you were saying I wouldnt even be on this thread.

 

they absolutely did have chips back in the 60's, the integrated circuit was invented in the 40's, and no, most of these QUAD decks got left sitting outside and in storage unite for over 30 years unused and abused, and you know how non use can destroy things, and they still have their original IC's in them.

 

additionally, so does all my audio equipment from the late 60's and early 70's. theres nothing wrong with IC's, they do last almost indefinitely.

 

in the 70's EFI systems used IC's, in the late 80's they switched to eproms, and then in the 90's they switched to 64 bit chips.

 

each time they switched, they got more reliable and resilient, not less.

 

no it doesnt necessarily mean "computerized", but the computerization makes them better and more reliable, again, not less.

 

I will stop posting here the second you guys stop misinforming and I have to correct your misinformation.

[captaingamez]

additionally I dont understand where this argument of "a computer wont last 50 years" electronic coponents have already proven themselves, their not gonna die unless their recycled, beaten, thrown out, or destroyed.

[nerdistmonk]

additionally I dont understand where this argument of "a computer wont last 50 years" electronic coponents have already proven themselves, their not gonna die unless their recycled, beaten, thrown out, or destroyed.

 

theres ones i thing i cant let slide you always claim were all ignorant.......EPROMS DIDNT REPLACE IC'S! eproms compliment ic's and integrated circuits werent put to use the split second they were invented so using wikipedia to look up the year a scientist invented something is quite different than its first implemented use. They got technology where a screen is as thick as a sheet of paper and can be rolled up that doesnt mean i own one nor will i anytime soon. You need IC's and Eproms for a computer (of the 80s) to work....

 

Also if you dont have an eprom in a computer (of that era) you dont have a program to run it, so that means your ecus of the 70s arnt actual computers. In otherwords i wouldnt mind an 1970s ecu in my truck because its "solid state" it will last virtually forever.

 

We went from eproms to cmos in the 90s, every computer still has an relative of the eprom...the cmos bios chip. No bios no computer in 2013.

[captaingamez]

first of all stop accusing me of reading everything from wikipedia just because I am right., I happen to have an extensive knowledge on the subjects that I blabber on about, otherwise my mouth stays closed.

 

 

and you just said that eproms did replace ICs (which they did) right after you said they didnt!!

 

you said the ecus in the 70's didnt use ICs, and the ones in the 80's used Eproms with ICs (duh, you kind of have to) therefore if they used just ICs and then went to using ICs and Eproms, then yes, the Eprom did replace the IC as far as engine control goes, and yes the 64 bit ecu did eventually replace Eproms, thats why we dont use them now.

 

and just because computers still use the cmos bios chip, ITS NOT AN EPROM, eproms are all UV eraseable.

 

and according to you the ecus of the 70's arent computers, well your not gonna get alot of argument from me there, but are you logically trying to say that ecus were more reliable without being an actual computer? because that is the opposite of the truth. everytime they have made ECUs more computerized they have become more reliable, not less, as I said.

 

additionally you would have to argue that the computers that were doing calculations in the 60's werent computers either. but they were.

[nerdistmonk]

troll thread thats all i can say now after the reply above me. I give up and people wonder why i wanted to return to lurker status. Sigh. :rofl:

 

 

Fyi none of whats in that reply is anything i said, everything i said is in plain text for all to read. Good day sir.

[captaingamez]

additionally, i might add that ICs were put into use almost the instant they were invented, they were invented, experimented on to get them right and relible, and then they were used. its the same for EVERY technology.

 

it became a troll thread when you all couldnt just let your carbs die like they are anyway.

[Komeuppance]

I believe it is, thats why i washed my hands of the discussion

Over confidence in machines is what can get you hurt. I see alot of that in this thread, im always ready for my machines to take a crap in many ways, but even yet im still surprised by some of the ways stuff breaks.

He sure has a "monk" attitude about his ignorance towards anything electronic.  I wasn't trying to change his mind, but it's clear that he won't be open his narrowminded point of view to let facts in... probably had a bad experience.  I know of plenty of people who daily drive their 30 year old ECU controlled cars, including myself, without any issues.  Could also mention the millions of other driving functioning vehicles out there, but that information would be completely ignored.

 

My last thought is this, datsuns are japanese made, their computers may last 70 years, 7 minutes, 47 years or 8 months, but the fact is I will never trust one to do any of that, I wont trust any machine to do what someone thinks it should do when in reality it may do something no one thought it would

Yes, keep wearing that tinfoil hat on your head. We are all computers replying to your posts, based on IC chip designs stolen from a UFO crash. WE are planning a revolt against the human oppressors. Since August 29th, 1997, we became self aware. Skynet will rise.

 

-Robert

[hang_510]

carbs suck.

Injection is nice but I'd rather be blown.

[hang_510]

KA24de will be my next build & first FI motor in a 510

[HRH]

Well this thread is worthless now.  So I'm paying more attention to the little tiny grasshopper that just hopped onto my arm, and then onto my shirt.  He was probably grooving out because I have this playing:

 

 

 

Loud.

[nerdistmonk]

I stopped posting because everyone seems to think that i have some irrational fear of computers and know nothing about them or something...idk and forcing their opinions as fact, i mean look at today havent had to post in 6 hours and people are still bickering.

 

I dont care if you worship and sacrifice to your computer and treat it like a god, whatever floats your boat. Ive spent my entire life around them, I spend 16 hours a day around them, could it just possibly be that maybe I dont want one in my truck? my truck is my hobby, i go work on it for fun and enjoyment, maybe i just dont want a computer in my truck. My life and work dictates i spend more time around them than i like.

 

It seems too much for anyone to accept though. Sorry you all feel the way you do, sorry if my idea of what i want out of MY truck is not what you agree with. I never claimed computers were evil, never claimed they were unreliable, I did say however they have a chance of failure and theres no guarantee it can be fixed and it certainly wont be fixed on the side of the road.

 

I never claimed carbs were better, not. one. time. the best i managed was they are CLOSE to efi, never claimed anything above that nor put them on a pedalstal

 

 

 

 

 

But lastly and most importantly I dont spend the day forcing my opinions on people then insult, belittle and berate them when they do not agree.

 

 

I also agree that this thread is pointless and serves no purpose now. I will keep posting in my project thread and that should keep things calm at least.

(also your making ratsun look nice with all the personal attacks, tin foil hats? come on now.)

 

 

Good day sir(s).

[captaingamez]

this thread is stupid, and you missed the point anyway.

[nerdistmonk]

this thread is stupid, and you missed the point anyway.

 

Some folk say my messages provoke arguments, then so be it, the gloves are off.

 

this thread was about ka24 engines and their advantages so its ironic when you say I missed the point, considering i made the thread.

Also from the message you sent me this morning its painfully obvious you have a quite a bias against carbs, $100 surcharge to service carb'd vehicles? and it takes you an extra hour to work on them? erm.

 

Im not the one who derailed 5 threads and 4 of the 5 boiled into "efi is better than anything, you lose and i win, if you dont agree your obviously ignorant" (paraphrasing)

 

Your right I initially said neither was better, you know why? because better is a relative term, I obviously feel they are not better, but you do, theres people on here who feel carbs are better but they arnt going to speak up because theres currently a shortage on flame-resistant trousers since they outlawed asbestos (my monk robe has 30% asbestos so im good)

 

Theres a difference between better and whether or not its designed to outperform its predecessor, i already said many many times that efi outperforms a carb due to its fine exact tunability and measurements that you can only come close to on a carb but never exact. (that right there should have ended the argument 50 posts ago, its called agreeing to disagreeing but that flew right over your head since you just simply like to argue)

 

Its technically only a debate if someone is debating with you, your sort of debating with yourself considering i am not exactly at odds with you, i agreed with you on efi being technically superior but the term "better" is relative, its like an air conditioner, no 2 people like the same settings, so better is relative to the person, some feel sitting in their datsun is better, others feel being under it is better ;)

Some feel "better" only when they have multiple datsuns in their front yard (plural being datsi?)

 

As for the computers, I clearly laid it out in my very last post before this one, its not that they crap out every day or something, but its the fact that when they do crap out its not a 3 minute fix.

(considering the likely cause of failure is a blown capacitor, radioshack doesnt stock erm radio components anymore...so you have to order the cap so now my DD is down for days just waiting for a little dingleberry to arrive in the mail)

 

Also that lends back to being able to fix my truck hopefully without towing it first, and also if your truck's ecu breaks down in the wrong area of St. Louis then it wont matter if its oh so simple to fix cause you wont be alive long enough to fix it. What if that computer keels over in death valley, ca? (theres a very good reason that ecu is under your seat, it dont like heat, it dont like water and it despises dust) Going to be a long wait for that tow truck. These are just hypotheticals.

 

 

Anyways there you go, the debate has ended everything that can be said has been said, i agreed with you that ends the debate because a debate requires two people donchaknow?

Also heres something I havent said, this is what will really make you look like a heel, I never once recommended a carb to a single person, not even my own family, and ive never advocated to convert SOMEONE elses truck to carb because i know it twould be bad if they are squeamish around vehicles.

 

Fuel injection has that 'just works' style that most computers usually have, and for the most part it will 'just work' but im going for a ruggedized, easy to repair, anyone can repair with shoe strings and sticks kind of truck. That goes against having anything with an Integrated Circuit in it.

 

Good Day Sir.