noob questions, IRS/s13 subframe

[Stupid_fast]

Hello, after seeing some threads and reading some information, I really want to swap an S13 subframe into my 510 wagon for handling performance and simply the experience and skill learned while doing it.

 

This is not a daily driver car, its a ratty rusty non-straight bodied 510 that I'm using to learn on and hopefully create something that is a reflection of my skill level and learning experience.

The first time I decided to buy the car I had never changed oil before, I bought it with the engine trans separately and built it up over time into its running form with no knowledge or idea of what it actually involved. I hope to make the rest of the project a bit more planned and organized.

 

 

I was reading the thread about mounting in the 510 subframe/IRS to the wagon, and gathered from that info its just as hard to swap in the S13 rear subframe.

I know the rear frame of the wagon will have to be reinforced to mount the S13 subframe, and then the shock/coilover mounts will have to be made.

All the mountings will need careful measurement, and cautious decisions on the best setup on the subframe.(solid bushings ? shorten it? S13 wheelbase is only like 2 inches longer than 510)

The wheel tubs(?) will need to be modified and raised a bit probably, for the best results. I'd love to fit 9" wide rims in there comfortably.

After the subframe/diff is mounted, the measurements for the driveshaft can be done an I can have one made.

The problem is I do not have the skill experience or knowledge to do this, and I would like help finding how I can gain the knowledge so I'm not walking in blindly or end up with a chopped up rear end and no way to go back!

 

 

The basic ideas and requirements are known, but I want to make sure it is done right. I don't want a cobbled together sub frame that I am scared to push hard, I want something that will survive abuse. Weekend driving, track, autocross, drifting, the good handling characteristics of the s13 into a 510.

The S13 has good aftermarket support, limited slip differentials, coilovers, ect. I'd love to have all of this tuning potential into the rear suspension.

 

I am going to be taking a welding class in the next few weeks, and hopefully start practicing with smaller projects, welding up coilovers, ect.

I will also need the knowledge of how to properly reinforce the chassis, and create the strut mounts. I know there are some books on this, I am going to order one soon, any recommendation?

I really want to do this project elegantly and professionally to make something that is race-worthy. I'd hope to document and get lots of pictures and information so that other datsun guys can do the same thing. IMO nothing cooler than a slammed wagon with camber.

I am not planning to start this until I have the necessary knowledge to complete it, however long that will take I am willing to wait.

 

 

I understand a lot of you will ask why, or you are ruining that datsun, sell it to someone who wont wreck it, ect... The reason why is why does anyone do anything? I know your point of view and how ridiculous my idea may sound, but there is only one way to learn for me and that's getting in there and getting it done. I am NOT taking a perfect survivor and modding it to death only to turn up in a junk yard 6 months later. This is a project, I have a garage I am willing to buy all the tools and invest the time to make it really nice. I just really cannot do it without the knowledge and help of all the people here, who have already helped me endlessly with other much smaller fixes.

I have been researching this and looking at as many other examples as I can find, but they are rare.

 

 

I don't make much cash, but most of it goes towards my Datsun. I am saving up and hoping with careful budgeting to spend around $2-3k's on all the parts and tools(I only have basic socket set, wrenches, jack stands/ floor jack.), is that a realistic number? I am hoping to create a schedule and budget my time and get it done over the winter season as I wont want to drive much anyway.

 

 

Well, anyone got something to share? Thanks.

 

 

TL;DR? I WAN DRIFT HERRAFRUSH WAGOON!!! (*sarcasm)

 

 

IRS wagon...

 

 

edit, here is a S13 subframe into an AE86.

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010/03/12/guest-blog-romas-tamulevicius-my-toyota-ae86-build-thread.aspx

[Laecaon]

This wagon, while not complete, has s13 IRS in it. You might ask for some more detailed pictures. Currently his car is not at his house though.

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/25436-1970-goon-sr20det-pojected-to-drive-me-crazy/

[izzo]

Ask hobbes the cat on here. I think he still has an irs subframe that was in a wagon. Might get lucky and save some work

[Laecaon]

Ask hobbes the cat on here. I think he still has an irs subframe that was in a wagon. Might get lucky and save some work

 

But that wagon was not S13...

[hobbes_the_cat]

And that wagons chassis is long gone. R.I.P.

[Stupid_fast]

This wagon, while not complete, has s13 IRS in it. You might ask for some more detailed pictures. Currently his car is not at his house though.

 

http://community.rat...drive-me-crazy/

Thanks, that's something of what I was looking for.

 

 

But that wagon was not S13...

Still useful info on how to swap in ANY IRS.

 

And that wagons chassis is long gone. R.I.P.

That's exactly what I don't want to happen to mine, I want it tough enough to use as a drift platform.

 

 

 

Thanks.

[Stupid_fast]

edit, why did this just post twice? sigh.

[Laecaon]

Icehouse has done a IRS into a wagon. http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12363

 

Troyt has an IRS race wagon http://community.ratsun.net/topic/11884-wagoon-race-car-project/

 

Heard rumor of a S13 IRS in a wagon from australia, think I saw a picture once.

 

The parted out goon has a build thread here... I forget the name... http://community.ratsun.net/topic/13067-70-wagon-irs-swap-project/

[Laecaon]

My biggest question on this whole thing is, is there a way to put in IRS without disrupting the cargo space, rear seat. I am not a fan how 72Datdat runs that cross brace, ruins functionality of the car to me. Troyt has a full cage, because racecar. The dead goon was never finished... And I dont remember enough pics in Icehouse's thread.

 

Here is another one...

http://www.drdatto.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=2067782

[Stupid_fast]

Icehouse has done a IRS into a wagon. http://www.the510rea...php?f=3&t=12363

 

Troyt has an IRS race wagon http://community.rat...ce-car-project/

 

Heard rumor of a S13 IRS in a wagon from australia, think I saw a picture once.

 

The parted out goon has a build thread here... I forget the name... http://community.rat...s-swap-project/

 

 

My biggest question on this whole thing is, is there a way to put in IRS without disrupting the cargo space, rear seat. I am not a fan how 72Datdat runs that cross brace, ruins functionality of the car to me. Troyt has a full cage, because racecar. The dead goon was never finished... And I dont remember enough pics in Icehouse's thread.

 

Here is another one...

http://www.drdatto.c...albumid=2067782

 

Some good links, thank you.

 

Did that white goon get totalled, or did the rear end rip itself apart when he tried to drift it?

 

I had some ideas in my head about what I have already seen, I was thinking about running the brace under the floor.. having beefier strut towers, maybe a removable strut bar on top... With strut towers the cargo/trunk area would be more narrow than stock goon but similar to that of a 240z. Maybe even a bolt-on rear strut brace so that its removable for transporting stuff.

Same reason I've been turned away from rollcages, I would love to install one that was really close to the frame and didn't hurt interior space by much.

 

The problem is I know I cannot do this with my knowledge level, viewing the existing builds is giving me a rough idea of what is required so that's definitely helpful.

I'd love some advice on where to gather the knowledge needed to successfully complete this project. Thanks!!

 

Offtopic, on my searches I've noticed a lot of people claim the 510 is a short wheelbase causing it to be twitchy for racing, drifting... but looking at the specs its pretty much the same wheelbase as the 240sx or AE86... less than 5 inches difference. I've always wanted good fun street handling which I can achieve on stock suspension, but I'd rather be more ambitious and do something that's more of a learning experience.

[hobbes_the_cat]

the green car with the sedan IRS was pretty well thought out, just not finished. what he did blended in well. I looked and it would have been pretty easy to re mount the original rear wagon seat too. I think the idea of a removable rear strut brace is a good idea.

[datsunwizard]

I am in the long long process of doing an IRS wagon, but with my own design, not 510 or Sxx. Check it out here,

 

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8375

 

 

Main goals where not to go into the cargo area with any struts or coil-overs,(IMHO wrecks the purpose of a wagon to carry stuff), "A" arm IRS not the semi trailing arm like the 510 sedan, LSD and 5 lug. Not going into the cargo area has been one of the hardest parts ( there are many) so far. The distance under the cargo floor to the lower suspension members is not very much. I love your desire to learn and build stuff correctly, but this is a real big project.

[Stupid_fast]

the green car with the sedan IRS was pretty well thought out, just not finished. what he did blended in well. I looked and it would have been pretty easy to re mount the original rear wagon seat too. I think the idea of a removable rear strut brace is a good idea.

 

Thats good to hear, definitely a great source of information.

 

 

I am in the long long process of doing an IRS wagon, but with my own design, not 510 or Sxx. Check it out here,

 

http://www.the510rea....php?f=3&t=8375

 

 

Main goals where not to go into the cargo area with any struts or coil-overs,(IMHO wrecks the purpose of a wagon to carry stuff), "A" arm IRS not the semi trailing arm like the 510 sedan, LSD and 5 lug. Not going into the cargo area has been one of the hardest parts ( there are many) so far. The distance under the cargo floor to the lower suspension members is not very much. I love your desire to learn and build stuff correctly, but this is a real big project.

 

That's an amazing rear setup, looks like those pics will be really useful thanks.I'm definitely going to do a setup a lot more simple than that using the S13 stuff, still going to be a huge project for me. Yep, that's definitely a good goal .. I'm unsure if I need all that cargo space though. I don't think I'd mind just the strut towers and removable brace. I definitely want LSD but 4 lug and smaller calipers are what I'm going for. I'm hoping to get this started over the next year or so. Thanks.