onefine,fivedime Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 help!! long story short: oil pump went out, changed it. went to start it and it only turns over! it back fires while it does it too. i pulled and reset my dist. and it still doesnt work. i went as far as pulling out the oil pump again and turning the rod that connects the dist and the oil pump. nothings working. as i crank it it turns over and backfires out of the carb =(. the one thing that i can tell isnt right is while cylin.#1 is at TDC and the notch on the crankshaft pulleyis @ 0 the rotor is facing #1 but the point is not resting @ open. its about @ the middle of the area.(hope that makes sense!) is there something im not doing right?? any help would b great thank you! Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Remove valve cover and turm motor so that the intake and exhaust lobes (bumps) are facing upwards at about 10 and 2 o'clock as viewed from the front of the motor. Rocker arms should NOT be on either cam lobe. Set the motor on TDC using the timing mark on the crank pulley and the timing scale bolted to the timing cover just behind it. Remove distributor and look down hole from the driver's side fender. The distributor drive spindle slot should be not quite vertical... it should be at about 11:28 . If it isn't, drop the oil pump and re-position it until it is. Helps if you have a friend. Because of the helical gears it does not go straight in and turns as it is installed so you may have to make several attempts. You will also notice that the drive spindle has a slot to engauge the distributor that is slightly off-set to one side. This off-set should be to the front of the motor in order for the distributor to allign with the #1 plug lead on the cap. Once the drive spindle is set at the 11:28 position the distributor and oil pump can be bolted down. The rotor should be pointing to (or within adjusting range) of the #1 plug wire on the cap. Edited June 19, 2009 by datzenmike 1 Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 well said MIke ,now copy that somewhere onefine 5dime, pull the dist set crank to zero and instll oil pump. should come out as the photos. ps get rid of the points when you can Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 it runs now! thanks alot banzai for the video! i didnt know that the indention on the gear spindle and the one on the pump need 2 be lined up. everything is set up right, cylinder#1 TDC, timing mark on the crank pulley @ 0, oil pump indetion lined up, primed w/ oil b4 instalation and rotor pointing @ cyln. #1 wire w/ point in the open position! =). ...fires right up! ..problem now is that its making noises in there!!(oh no!) =( it sounds like s$@T is gettin thrown around in there, oil is full and oil light is still on... sorry if thats a crappy explanation but anyone have an idea on whats wrong?? did i forget 2 do something? is my motor done??? =( (panic mode).... Quote Link to comment
datto510 Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Are the oil gallery plugs in place? I put together a motor and didn't relaze the oil gallery plugs werent there, had to remove the engine and damn near dissasemble the thing to put the plugs in.:mad: Live and learn, right? Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 dam that sucks dude! but ur definately right! ive learned quite a bit these last couple days! umm... im not sure were those are (sorry ive had a 510 for a while but had never done much to the motor other than replace an alternator,water pump points, change oil) but they should be all ive removed since the trouble started is the dist, oil pump, spindle, and oil cap (lol) Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 oil light still ON???????? Do you think its pumping oil? One way is to remove sender and start car or crank motorr over and see if oil shoots Maybe change oil filters out. Wire going to sender is good> I think it shoyld have 12volts with key on. if ther was no oil pump the motor will start ticking loudly. Quote Link to comment
datto510 Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 dam that sucks dude! but ur definately right! ive learned quite a bit these last couple days! umm... im not sure were those are (sorry ive had a 510 for a while but had never done much to the motor other than replace an alternator,water pump points, change oil) but they should be all ive removed since the trouble started is the dist, oil pump, spindle, and oil cap (lol) If you havent had your motor apart its unlikely its your gallery plugs. I didnt read your first post thouroughly. I suspect somthing is going on with tho oil pump, clogged maybe? Was the oil pan off? Is there a good sealing gasket on the pickup tube? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Take the pump out and fill with oil and install. This will prime the pump and help it to lift the oil up the pick-up tube and start working. Make sure oil pump is seated against the timing cover and the gasket isn't torn and leaking air in. Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 b4 installation i filled oil pump w oil, cycled it a couple times, and made sure it had it when i put it in. .. oil pan didnt come off...umm a response from a dude who saw my help ad on dimequarterly said 2 pull the plugs and ign coil wire out and crank it till the light went off (2 get that oil moving) tried it a couple times but im kinda worried about f"n up a batt or starter. i dont need any more problems on my hands..... another dude said that maybe the noise is the chain tensior? what would the syptoms be for that? ... dam idk.. sidenote: thank all of you for the help youve been! u guys are great! id still b out side cussing @ the oil pump if it wasnt for all of you! =) Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 How about putt the coil center wire fromt he dist. then crank over engine if it gonna shot oil its gonna shot alot. or the oil filter . it will come out from there also. But be ready for a clean up. I wonder if something is blocking the oil??????????? no way another pump is bad. Persoanlly Iam running a used pump on a rebuilt motor on my beater 510. I buy new now but these rearly go bad. if theres no oil somethings are gonna make noise. I dont know how long you ran this. Maybe stuff went bad inside motor already? You seen my vid Look at the rockers if look like its seen a hard days night! Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 help!! long story short: oil pump went out, changed it. ! Oil pumps hardly ever fail. What was the problem with it? Low pressure, no pressure?Was motor making noise with the old pump? Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 you know what ... to be completely honest i changed out the oil pump based on a whole 'lotta assuming.. it fit too perfectly... was on my way 2 work and halfway there i was coming to a stop, as the revs were coming down it made this noise that sounded kinda like the fan hitting the shroud. the my oil light would come on and go off, so when i got 2 work popped the hood and checked the shroud, of course it was tight. so i revved it and the loose rattling sound from near the bottom of the motor. couple days back i had degreased the bottom of the motor (dam motor leaks oil from almost every orifice on it and still ran like a champ!) and i had noticed that the oil pump was still clean (which was wierd cuz thats the first thing that gets covered in black) so i ASSUMED(dammit, i know what happens when u assume) rattley noise from close to bottom of motor + clean oil pump + oil light =broken oil pump. so i looked around for the better priced oil pump and autozone sold me a $91 for $58 because it had been sitting so long the were gona pull it from the shelf. the box was beat to hell and the gasket was ripped but i just went ahead and made a new one. oh.. its a "melling" then, i quadruple check to make absolute sure that something wasnt just loose. the oil light was staying on the whole time and the sound stayed the same,didnt get louder or anything.. this noise is nothing like the one b4 i changed it, its freakin horrible.. i inspected it b4 i paid for it, nothing was messed up it looked brand new.. is it a possibility that the pump went bad sitting on a shelf? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 The noise could have been a bad timing chain or guide. Pump will be good. But the drive spindle could be chewed up. Did you look at the spindle end that fits into the pump? Maybe drop the pump and pull the spindle out... set at TDC first so it's easier to keep timed. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 The Melling pump will be a cast steel unit. Very heavy but very strong. If your motor is running ZI wll assume the spindal is good as its turning the distributor. Did this run out of oil at one point? Open the valve cover and ck the slack side guide and tite side guid to make sure they are not loose. I use oil gauges now in all my vehicles as a light will come ON when it already TOO LATE. it might be TOO LATE for you already. Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted July 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 greats news everyone! i got it to run! ...bad news is it broke again and got worse! =(. 2 get everyone updated my friends grandpa busted out some mcguyver skills and showed me that i wasnt getting oil pressure(with the "new" pump). he then disassembled it and found that(im gona describe it 2 the best of my ability) the "nose" on the regulator valve was too long and while it rests on the oil pumps wall it was in the open position. so it wasnt pumping s%#$!.. so did some grinding and viola! houston we have pressure! so thinking everything was fine and dandy i went to adams track last thur. nite and drifted the ish out of my datsun! =) (i always suck the first 1/2 an hr.) and on 3/4 of the way home my oil light came back on and it started to sound like my belt was loose. well that quickly turned into what i think was my lifters screaming bloody murder. so fri. morning i pulled the pump out, got a replacement and of course it was doin the same thing as the first one. assuming the mcguyvering is what caused it to break i tried to get it running anyway...not happening...did the modifying again and it started and ran, reved it up a lil and the mass murder of my lifters quickly went away.. well i drained all the crap out of it and in gona put new oil/filter on. what i was wondering is would any of you guys know what the hell is going on in there? is this problem going to come back? Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted July 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 geezus f"n christopher! ...answered my own question.. put new oil/filter, new oil sending unit, ran it for 10 min and perfect! no light no noises. drove it around the block a couple times and then the light would come on @ lower rpms. (2 and under) then, light stayed on and noises are subtle but starting to sound familiar....*sigh* what the hell is goin on? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Think of your oil pump as your heart. If you had heart problems would you run a marathon????? Get this fixed before you go 'driftin' or you'll fry that motor. The regulator valve piston is closed and is pushed open against a spring as the pressure rises against it. As the spring compresses the piston moves back and opens a passage back to the oil inlet and the oil simply recirculates and the pressure stabilizes. That's it. It can't be open to start or there would be little or no pressure at idle. They aren't made this way. A new one can't be wrong either so something is wrong here and I don't think it's the pump. You should not have to modify it to make it work!!! Has the motor been apart? Has the pickup tube been off? Could it be loose or the screen plugged? Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 ive never for as long as ive had this motor taken off the oil pan. or any other important parts for that matter. i had 2 modify the oil pump because it had absolutely no pressure b4 i did. i even got a replacement b4 modifying. (thank god for warranties!) but no luck< modifying it was the only thing that worked so far. ...dammit im lost lol! Quote Link to comment
playsnmud Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I think your bearings(cam, rod or main) went out, if the bearsing are toast you will lose oil pressure that way also, like mike said oil pumps rarely fail. If this was my motor i would just open it up and go through it Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 yeah..well what im trying to do is determine how bad off my motor is. if its a lil fix i would like to fix it and keep driving it because in trying to sell my other car and using it as a daily driver is helping me u know? if the motor needs to come out and apart im just gona pull it and get ready for the KA swap. im just not giving up on the l series till im sure.(plus im EVENTUALLY gona rebuild it and put it back in my other 510) Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 datzenmike ur definately right! i pulled the pump out and apart and the lil. regulator valve was too far in! =( dammit! in an idiot!...so im getting a replacement and ill first try it again w no modification. if that doesnt work ill pull it apart and put up pics of the problem area. so u guys can see what i keep f'n with. i also have another question... i had someone tell me its not holding constant pressure cuz i didnt pack white lithium grease on the gears inside the pump b4 installing/runing. it doesnt make any sense to me why that would make a difference. but am i supposed 2 do that? i wanted 2 ask u guys b4 i do anything drastic like that. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) if putting a oil pump in dry with no oil in it there is no vacuum to suck the oil in the sump. The gears just spin inside. One should put think oil or some say grease inside the oil pump till you see it come out of the otherside of the hole in the pump. But You said you did this so I cant see it as a proplem. MY first motor I built I used a old oil pump that Datzenmike found in the yard mowing the lawn and it still works good Edited July 12, 2009 by banzai510(hainz) Quote Link to comment
onefine,fivedime Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 last week i got the car running only to find out that my piston rings and head gasket are blown (i was doin a smoke screen out the exhaust pipe james bond status).... =( the L series is dead.... now its time to pull it out and prep for the KA swap. u guys were all super helpful! and expect more posts when i start running into problems w the ka lol! thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment
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