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Santa Fe, NM
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Fiat, Scion, Chevy 1500 '82 720
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Do I understand - "Choke On" is when that upper plate is horizontal and closing the chamber, right? "Off " is when that plate is vertical. I can observe this plate opening during warm up and the idle drops from about 1800 to 1200. I think this is what is supposed to happen. Will get some carb cleaner and spray as you recommend. I did alot of spray cleaning when I had the carb off and replaced gaskets. Maybe missed this port? Couldn't hurt to do it again. Might this high rough idle be attributed to vacuum leaks also? If so, where should I 'test' for leaks? Thanks.
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Thanks for the guidance, Mike. Do you have a preferred brand/source for replacement seals? I may attempt this if only to confirm or refute the presumption of faulty seals ... .....BUT, now, I am preoccupied with this high idle problem. As I stated previously , I can't adjust to an idle below 1000 without stalling out; steady but still rough. I'm thinking the problem is with the carburetor. Maybe the smoking tail pipe and rough idle is, in part, due to a very rich fuel mixture. Right? White smoke could be coolant or fuel? I find NO loss of coolant; just smelly white exhaust fumes. The plugs are definitely carbonized. The anti-dieseling solenoid is working. Seems like I need to trouble - shoot carburetion. (History note: The idle was too high when I obtained this vehicle. And must have been driven this way for years.) What are the typical causes of too rich a fuel mixture that defies adjustments? Where might this novice start looking for answers? (I mean before this Hitachi gets junked)
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.....I cannot rule out the possibility of valve seal failure or worn guides. There is definitely more smoking at cold start/restart and the plugs are black and oily. Maybe I overlooked something when reassembling the head. Maybe I was too aggressive while lapping the valves? I was very careful with the compound and kept the stems lubed with clean oil. Why NEW seals would leak is beyond me but the symptoms suggest such is the case. Maybe they got stretched out and deformed at initial start-up? WTF I tried to gain some insight by visually inspecting the seals with the rocker cover off -- No dice. No way to draw any conclusions this way. --- time for a tear down!?!? I must consider undertaking the process of inspecting and/or replacing these valve seals WITHOUT removing the head. I think I can do this using the 'nylon rope' trick to keep the valves from falling down the cylinders. However, I need some pointers as to how one insures that the position of the cam and pistons is retained since the rocker arm assembly must be removed and the engine will be hand cranked cylinder to cylinder during this process.
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✌️ Went another route, Mike. I jumped the battery to the solenoid - nothing. Also checked voltage on the connector with ignition 'on' -- 12.3V. So, I assumed wiring to the solenoid to be faulty. I have taken the thing out to inspect. And What the heck: The darn spring is outside, riding on the pin!!!! No wonder there was no 'click'. So I've reassembled the right way, I think. Now, on the bench, the pin does move in and out about 5 mm when applying 12 volts. WOnder of WonDers. The solenoid has been functioning, at least, partially. I guess I am glad that I don't need an 'unobtainable' part. I haven't reinstalled to see if there are changes in the idle adjustment. I'm not too optimistic. I was almost hoping to find the solenoid defective and stuck in the 'shut- off' position since this would account for abnormal idle speed. Maybe the cock-eyed spring was interfering with fuel flow? Will be testing soon..(if I see sunshine and 50ºF). More later. Thanks, datzenmike.
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Did this test but a loud beeping sound in the 'On' position is too loud for me to hear clicking. I will check again and test the electricals involved and Ohms on the solenoid. But, do I understand this: If the anti-diesel solenoid is faulty, setting an idle will be possible but the RPM level will exceed normal specs. Yes? No? This may describe my situation. (I hope not because I don't think I can get a replacement solenoid??) The idle is responsive to the screwing in/out at the two points on the carb., but I'm not been able to bring idle RPM down to less than 900 without stalling. There is no dieseling at ignition off.
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Thanks for the questions/reply, Mike. Here are my answers. Mike, I don't drive this truck except for test drives around the 'hood. Can't make any judgments on actual oil consumption rate. It burns and smokes enough to draw looks of disgust from my spouse. I can tell you that the truck sat outdoors for months, all fluids drained, as I worked on the head. I packed the exposed cylinders with clean shop rags and a little WD40 and covered the headless block with plastic sheets. I base the burning oil conclusion on: a) Plugs are blackened and oily. b). Grey blue smoke at idle and higher RPM from tail that stinks of oil. The on board gauge reads about 2/3 between 0 and 45 psi. I am guesstimating 30 psi. I can watch the gauge drop from almost 45 at cold start to that level when hot (hot= temp gauge almost straight up). This apparent rod knock noise is new to me. It became apparent after the clicking-ticking valve noise was 'tamed'. I am not sure whether it has just developed or has been there all along. I know I pushed them on tight upon reassembling head. Haven't done the warm up/stop/ restart yet. All I see is substantial smoking at cold start which diminishes as engine warms and idle drops. Puffs increase as I throttle up. The idle stutters and stalls below 900 . I've tried adjusting the idle/mixture screws without success at achieving a lower RPM. Idle holds @ 900 but is not what I would call, "smooth and steady". Warmed up engine. Removed exhaust plugs. Started at cyl.#1 with screw in gauge. Got readings for all four cyls. then squirted about a Tbls. worth of oil in plug hole to get 'wet' readings. Will repeat test to verify (or create more confusion)
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Hi, its a year later -- BACK under the hood. I had abandoned this outdoor project due to seasonal constraints and disappointing results; fired up this '82- 720- Z22 a few times in 2020 to see if the oil burning and clicking-ticking sounds had 'magically' vanish. - Of course, nothing changed. So, with favorable weather and renewed 'enthusiasm', I have given it another go-round. Signs are pointing to a worn engine that will require a mastery of skills that this novice grease monkey does not possess. But, before I conclude that this engine is 'toast, let me relate what I have accomplished so far. You generous mentors may have some insights. Some background: The odometer is @ 88.8K; seems like it should be higher. I know that it has had a hard life in the trout fishing environs of Gunnison, Colorado where at some point, the original 5 speed tranny failed and was replaced with a 4 speed. Pretty sure the engine is original. I drove in from Gunnison to Santa Fe without problems and subsequently put about 300 miles driving around town. Then, I started fussing with the mucked up mess in the engine compartment and made the ill-fated decision to do a 'tune-up' before a roadie to the Texas panhandle. That was my 1st mistake. The head gasket failed and thus my mechanic's adventure began. And so did my strict adherence to wearing nitrile gloves. (Would you believe that this little beast had an faulty connection at the exhaust manifold flange AND No tail pipe. Exhaust had been spewing into the engine bay for years!! And someone removed the catalytic converter (assumed dead) and put a second muffler there. Issue #1) Clicking and ticking/Valve lash: Set clearances following Datzenmike's recommended sequence which is slightly different from the Haynes manual. Wonder of wonders...the ticking noise is GONE and the idle is much smoother and I can adjust it steady to @900 rpm! Note - As I manually turned the crank for the adjustments, I could hear squishing, gurgling, hissing noises accompanying the movement of pistons. Is this expected?? Issue #2) Oil burning: Symptoms seem to be indicative of blow-by and/or stem seals (?) I replaced all the seals when refurbishing the head. -all these relatively new plugs look oily (some more than others); much to my dismay, these are oilier than the plugs that came with the truck. -smoke from the tail kinda grey-blue and smelly. More smoking at initial start up than when operating temperature is reached. I don't find any coolant loss. Bought a INNOVA 3612 compression tester to perform a Dry/Wet test. FYI- I did this test before completing the valve lash adjustment mentioned above. I pulled all the exhaust plugs after warming up. Smoke puffed out of #1! Here are the results: Dry Wet Cyl. #1 145 140 Cyl. #2 142 140 Cyl. #3* 135 143 *(I discovered later that #3 was most in need of lash adj. Could this account for the lower reading?) Cyl. #4 145 142 I don't know what to expect as 'normal' psi for this Z22. These number seem low but except for #3 seem consistent if that means anything. The truck does drive with power enough though I haven't left the neighborhood. Issue #3) Rod and/or bearing noise: With the valve/head noise quieted, I can hear some knock-a-knocking from down low, like in the oil pan...main bearings, rod knock?? ): .Now, I am at a decision point. IF, in fact, the rings and bearings are too worn, I will consider my work concluded, i.e., sell this vehicle to some ambitious younger person looking for experience with vintage internal combustion technology. I don't have a garage or covered area to pull the entire engine; accessing rings from underneath also seems difficult if not completely wrong. OR, if I can do something to improve the oil burning besides a ring job, I might keep the run this truck for my light construction and recreational desires. How do you feel about the use of oil additives to combat smoking?? How about a crankcase flush and 'heavier' oil. I had a Ford F-150 back in the last century that developed significant knock which cleared after I flushed and refilled several times.
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Don't think the oil pump is a problem. Primed when returned to the truck with new gasket. I am seeing psi about 35 psi @1000 rpm (about 1/4" to the left of 45 psi mark on the gauge). Getting back to the 'oil spill', I ran it yesterday watching for leaks. NO LEAKS. Warmed up, idling fair w/lash returned to cold setting. Sounds OK for now. Still - NO LEAKs. Just like the other day BEFORE backing out for a test drive which was aborted due to lack of power steering. I intend to put the pump on when its running better. A-HA. The lines to the power steering pump may still have some fluid in them. I don't know the mechanics here but I am guessing that by turning the wheels some fluid could be forced out of an open line. Is that possible? Indeed, I find that one of the lines did not have a plug in it and it is kinda pointing toward the cooling fan. Add to this the nagging fact that the color of the fluid found pooling in several places was not really looking like motor oil, new or old; it was reddish orange. Conclusion: I think that when I backed out and did some turning on to the street, power steering fluid burped out toward the fan and spewed into the engine bay. Does this sound like a plausible explanation. ?? I will proceed working under the assumption that NO MOTOR OIL IS LEAKING. I won't be back under the hood for a few days to run out in the street WITH the PS lines plugged. But I think this topic has come to a close. ON deck: burning oil Thanks for all your help !
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Hi, Hainz. Short history. I ran the truck for about 750 miles many, many months ago. As soon as I got it, I had the oil changed w/filter. That is the same 'generic' filter returned to the truck weeks ago upon replacing the oil . I know, I know. That may be a mistake . But I was intending to get a quality filter after an initial tune/run period; flush/drain refill w/new filter. The oil pump: Lacking experience, I did not secure the timing chain properly while working on the top end. Needed to take the timing cover off to get things right and replace the bent tensioner. During this process I did remove the oil pump and returned it containing some oil. Do you think it is not working or barely working? Oil pressure seems to be where it was before this whole rebuild started (according to the gauge in the console). WHAT is a usual oil psi reading? Get the picture...I have more time than brains or $$ on my hands. Thanks for the comments
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To be clear -- run it without the fan ?? (and also the alternator which is on the same belt) Never done that. I guess you can do it safely for a short period in idle. Lacking skill I'll always take any luck. Thanks
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Really appreciate you response, Mike. To answer - Yes, yes, and yes. I wish I could say you nailed it with your tip about the oil switch. Hadn't considered that at all. Alas,..... .....The oil pressure switch/sending unit is dry as a bone. I think this darn cork gasket is involved but I can't imagine it would lead profusely and send oil out with force. Proceeding to put the cover back on and start up to observe. Cleaned out most of the spewed oil and have placed some plastic over areas in the line of 'fire'. I will pay special attention to the oil switch area this time. Thanks.
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I did install both plugs, Mike though FELpro shorted me one. The set only had one so I used an old one up front. I did smear RTV and it is in place. No leaking there. THanks.
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Many thanks for the reply to my exasperating situation. I'm calmer today. Power steering has not been reinstalled yet. I'm still bugged by the color contrast between the oil in the head and what I see coming out and on the dipstick. But, that will be dismissed for now. Here is a scenario that provides a plausible explanation for the presence of oil in the fan and below the radiator. : Oil is being 'projected' on to the hood's underside, flowing downward due to gravity to the cooling fan, dripping between the radiator and fan (I do not have the cowling/hood installed) -- and THEN being spewed back in to the bay. Some oil is bound to be trapped in the fan's pocket. I can imagine this happening when the oil fill cap is off because the timing chain would sling oil up and out. But this cap is on tight. Oil must be squirting from somewhere else. And, if that "hood scenario" is correct, the oil has to be shooting upwards. No two ways about it. I must fire it up and observe; this time with plastic protective covers on the vulnerable areas. (And more coffee)
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WIll do...after I get a new cover gasket. For now, I'd like to relate today's observations which may have bearing upon this oily subject. I see oil around intake sparks #1 , #2, and in nearby recesses on the intake manifold. This 'fugitive' oil like most oil retrieved from other areas is light colored and looking fresh. All the oil seen in the head is as black as night. The oil on the dipstick is clear and golden. WTF? If oil leaked from the head, it would expect it to be black. Right? Why oh why isn't the oil in the head looking fresh? Oil pump not working? Oil pick up too gunked up? Clogged passages? Seems like there is an oil circulation problem here. View of spark plug #1 and #2 Black oil in head galley Also, the plugs from #1 & #2 are oily...... Oil in the combustion chamber. I can't deal with failing piston rings (there has been some oil burning during initial start-up). I'd like to find a way to diagnose the apparent oil circulation problem ; and maybe solve it. I'd like to get this truck running at least as good as it was before all this tear down. But first, I need to eliminate the cover gasket as a source of leaking oil. Off to the auto parts store to order some new cork with fingers crossed.
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Look down at the cooling fan with oily blades and a little pool on the low point.: Thanks, Hainz. That is what I thought. I may be over-tight. I'm wondering how many times one can take the cover off/on before the cork loses 'suppleness'. I have been Off & On at least 6 times so far. It does seem to be leaking around intake plugs #1 & #2 and down the block on that side. I may have to buy a new gasket after all. However, I am really puzzled by the oil puddle in the recess of the cooling fan facing the radiator ? If the cover gasket leaks, how could oil get to the front of the fan??