A14 rocker arm stuck- wha happened?

[the nice machine]

just when i thought i had my B210 dialed and ready for the summer...

okay i got this car a few weeks ago, it had a blown head gasket, i changed it and adjusted the valves and everything was fine. i had never adjusted valves before, so i took my time and made sure i understood how everything works. by the time i was done i felt pretty comfortable with valve adjustments on this engine. i've been driving it this week (about 150 miles), everything was running perfect.

today i was on my way to the store (20 miles away) and i start hearing a valve tick. okay it wasn't really a tick, it was a valve SQUEAK. it was slighlty ticking but mostly squeaking. on my way home the squeaking sound stopped and went back to normal. a few miles later it started again. so i got home and opened it up to readjust the valves, when i got to rocker #4 it wouldn't move. there was no play at all. so i loosened the adjuster screw and figured out that the rocker arm is stuck. really stuck.

it has already been a long day so i am going to wait until the morning to take the rocker assembly apart and try to figure it out. has anybody had this happen? it almost seems like the rocker shaft is warped or something. i'll get into it tomorrow. anyone got some advice on this?

[ggzilla]

Very unusual. From the photo, the whole rocker shaft looks dry. There should be considerable amount of oil on it.

 

Start the engine with the cover off. It will get oil all over the place, but you'll see if it's getting oil to the rockers. If it does, but not to that particular one, you might be right that the shaft is bad.

 

If little oil gets to any of the rockers, there is something else wrong. Like the wrong head bolt in the oil passage position.

[the nice machine]

hmmm... i was double triple extra sure about putting the oil passage bolt in the right spot.

and there is plenty of oil in the engine. i might have to drink a pot of coffee and go to the garage tonight. i think my landlord that i bought it from has another shaft somewhere so it's probably not the end of the world. i'll check and see where the oil is coming out in a minute here. thanks again.

[Kisor]

If its seized on the shaft its probably not salvageable. If the small oiling hole on that rocker was clogged it probably just ran dry and killed it's self.

 

When I got my A14 it was freshly rebuilt...... 12 years ago. LOL!! And sat on a pallet in a storage unit. Needless to say the rocker shaft and any exposed steel was rusty, not horrible but I took it all apart and used a 3M "scotch brite" pad on all of it.

 

Isn't there a tapered shaft bolt on the rocker assy also? The oil comes into the head around the middle spark plug side head bolt then into the rocker shaft through the center bolt holding the shaft. I could be wrong about the rocker bolt. Been a couple years since mine was apart.

[the nice machine]

If its seized on the shaft its probably not salvageable. If the small oiling hole on that rocker was clogged it probably just ran dry and killed it's self.

 

When I got my A14 it was freshly rebuilt...... 12 years ago. LOL!! And sat on a pallet in a storage unit. Needless to say the rocker shaft and any exposed steel was rusty, not horrible but I took it all apart and used a 3M "scotch brite" pad on all of it.

 

Isn't there a tapered shaft bolt on the rocker assy also? The oil comes into the head around the middle spark plug side head bolt then into the rocker shaft through the center bolt holding the shaft. I could be wrong about the rocker bolt. Been a couple years since mine was apart.

 

wow i think you are totally right about the rocker assembly oil passage bolt... i took mine off (didn't start it without the cover on to see if there is oil coming through yet, i wanted to get in and see the damage to the rocker first) and there is a narrower bolt, and it was in the wrong place (it was down at the #1 spark plug) (EDIT: wrong info. i was hallucinating i think). it must have been like that before but i didn't notice it. i just did a head gasket change last week and i put every bolt back to where it was when i started. you pretty sure it is supposed to be in the middle right next to the oil passage head bolt? sounds right.

[the nice machine]

and i got the rocker un-stuck. the oil hole was totally clogged, the others were only partially clogged. so i'm goin to clean it all out and see if i can get this rocker moving smoothly again, and get the rocker assembly oil bolt in the right spot.

partially clogged rocker oil hole

totally clogged rocker oil hole

and yes i bite the living fuck out of my fingernails.

[the nice machine]

okay here is the verdict: the rocker siezed because it wasn't getting any oil (EDIT:none of them were getting oil). it wasn't getting oil because the rocker assembly bolt that is narrower in the middle was in the wrong location (another EDIT- they are all the same, scroll down, sorry). even if that were working properly, rocker #4 wouldn't have gotten oil anyways because the oil hole was clogged. i'm glad i checked it out as soon as it started making a funny sound.

i got the rocker moving up and down pretty good, but there is a lot of wear on the shaft. i am trying to find a new shaft and rocker (or the whole damn assembly would be nice to find).

should i run it like this until i find a new one? will i damage more than just the shaft and rocker if i drive it with that worn part on the shaft?

hmmmm. i wanna go for a drive man! i was planning to go to canby but it's not looking so good.

[Kisor]

Biggest risk is throwing more ground up metal throughout the engine. If you can, take the whole assy completely apart and clean it all out. Problem will be inside the shaft. Scotch brite everything and lube it all up.

 

 

While you have it off the head. I would crank the engine over to see if you are getting oil through the port, throw a rag over it as it will shoot to the ceiling.

[the nice machine]

Biggest risk is throwing more ground up metal throughout the engine. If you can, take the whole assy completely apart and clean it all out. Problem will be inside the shaft. Scotch brite everything and lube it all up.

 

 

While you have it off the head. I would crank the engine over to see if you are getting oil through the port, throw a rag over it as it will shoot to the ceiling.

 

i feel kinda dumb now, i wasn't looking close enough... we were wrong about the rocker assembly passage bolt- they are all passage bolts, so they are all tapered. anyhoo yeah i'm going to try and take it all apart first.

[bananahamuck]

In would find another assembly that one is pretty messed up and will only give you heartache on the side of the road. Especially if rocker sticks the valve open somehow.

 

But keep the ol` head up and it`ll come around ,

[the nice machine]

In would find another assembly that one is pretty messed up and will only give you heartache on the side of the road. Especially if rocker sticks the valve open somehow.

 

But keep the ol` head up and it`ll come around ,

 

yeah it's pretty bad. i got it as clean as i could and put it back in. it won't stop ticking and sounds really bad. i'm stuck until i get a new shaft and a rocker at least.

[ggzilla]

Have you discovered the cause of the problem yet?

[ggzilla]

will i damage more than just the shaft and rocker if i drive it with that worn part on the shaft

Yes -- if you don't fix the cause of the oil problem. Even if you did find the cause, the bad rocker will hammer the valve and it will never be quiet again, even after replacing the bad rocker.

 

If the shaft will clean up, just replace the one rocker. This is the worst looking part -- will it clean up with fine sandpaper? or is it galled too badly?

[the nice machine]

well i threw it back on and adjusted it once it got the rocker unsiezed, just to watch how it ran. it was pretty bad. so now i am about to go back in and figure out the oil problem and see if i can sand out a smooth spot on the shaft. i'm just busy with a million things to do this week, i'd like to just find a whole new assembly. also trying to get a chevy 454 motor started so ican move my rv. haha fun times.

[the nice machine]

okay, there is no oil coming out when it turns, even with the rocker assembly off. all of the bolts are in the right place. what's next? oil pump?

[datsunaholic]

If it was the oil pump you'd have no oil at the crank either. Does your Oil light work?

 

Since you just changed the head gasket, it's possible that the oil ports up through the block to the head are now blocked, either from a badly made gasket or because there's somthing blocking it (you didn't perchance put anything on the gasket, right? Head gaskets go on DRY).

[ggzilla]

Check your oil light now. Does it come on when you turn the key to ON?

 

When it was running, did the oil light go off after starting?

 

Were the main and rod bearings quiet?

 

If the answer to all three is YES, then it's not the oil pump.

[the nice machine]

the oil light does not come on when i turn the key on, only the charge light. it should be on for a few seconds just like the charge light right? i was assuming that the oil light was burned out because i've never seen it come on.

i don't know what the main and rod bearings should sound like if they aren't getting oil, but everything sounded perfect until the rocker siezed.

 

on a positive note, my landlord finally returned my call today (3 days later) and says "yeah i've got an extra a14 you can pick apart. it has the rocker assembly and oil pump, you can have 'em". so i'm gonna go grab that stuff, maybe he will be able to help me figure out this oil problem.

i'm guessing i should check the oil light while i'm at it. i might DRIVE to canby!

[the nice machine]

If it was the oil pump you'd have no oil at the crank either. Does your Oil light work?

 

Since you just changed the head gasket, it's possible that the oil ports up through the block to the head are now blocked, either from a badly made gasket or because there's somthing blocking it (you didn't perchance put anything on the gasket, right? Head gaskets go on DRY).

 

yes i put the head gasket on dry, all off the ports matched up. there were some really chunky oil cruds in the rocker shaft, i'm figuring there were big nasty chunks throughout the whole system. i cleaned everything i could get to when i had the head off, but maybe it IS just something clogging the system. i'll go keep trying

[datsunaholic]

Well, with no oil light and likely no gauge then you have no idea if you have oil pressure. You could have been driving around with no oil pressure, and only the minute amount of splash kept the engine from siezing. They don't sieze right away.

[the nice machine]

okay i got a newer rocker assembly and an oil pump (fuck yeah!). first i'm going to get the oil light working, then i'm going to put on the pump and see if i get some oil action. if that doesn't work i'll be trying to clean out gunk from all of the oil passages.

and yeah i guess i shouldn't have overlooked the oil light not coming on when i start it. i didn't know, now i do.

[ggzilla]

Good work. Get that oil light working before you start it up. With key ON, engine OFF, the oil light should stay on forever. It should only go out after you start the engine.

[the nice machine]

i put a working light in the oil guage, it didn't work. i cleaned up the electrical connection at the oil pump, that didn't work. i'm thinking instead of dealing with electric, i should put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on it. i have to go to the parts store anyway to get a new gasket for the oil pump, i'll see what i can find as far as oil pressure gauges go.

[ggzilla]

I'd keep the light. You'll notice it when driving even if you aren't watching the external oil gauge.

You can get a sender that has both a light tab, and a gauge tab.

 

On the engine, pull the wire and ground it. See if the lamp comes on. If it does, replace the sender.

[the nice machine]

haha i assumed i would be able to get an oil pump gasket pretty easily. wrong. does anybody buy sheets of auto felt and make their own gaskets? i had a few auto parts stores that i called say "just use RTV brah" but i'm not so sure about that move...