A14 rocker arm stuck- wha happened?

[datsunaholic]

I've made plenty using gasket paper. I don't use auto felt, dunno what that is. Life is a lot easier if you have a single-hole punch for the bolt holes, though.

[the nice machine]

I've made plenty using gasket paper. I don't use auto felt, dunno what that is. Life is a lot easier if you have a single-hole punch for the bolt holes, though.

 

ahh okay gasket paper. i will have to get some of that stuff because i spend way too much time going to the store to get gaskets.

[the nice machine]

well, i'm thoroughly stumped here. i put on a new oil pump that i was told works, and still nothing. i turned it for a total of about 30 seconds without the rocker assembly and there was no oil coming out. i checked the electrical connection, nothing wrong. i can't figure this out. i double checked all of the head bolts again, cleaned all of the oil ports i could find (and i did the same with the head when i had it off last time). i even put the new rocker assembly on and oiled them up and adjusted everything and ran it for a couple of minutes, it ran fine but there was still no oil getting to the rocker shaft. i'm buffaloed.

this is starting to suck, i own 3 cars and i'm waiting for a ride to the grocery store.

[Kisor]

Sorry but did you check the oil level?

 

Other things that could have happened are a cam or crank bearing may have spun and its dumping pressure there, or as mentioned before maybe the head gasket is on wrong and blocking the oil port somehow.. although it comes up around the bolt so unlikely.

 

Or the pick up tube may have come off or loose in the oil pan.

 

Honestly, take out the oil bolt and see if anything happens.

[the nice machine]

Sorry but did you check the oil level?

 

Other things that could have happened are a cam or crank bearing may have spun and its dumping pressure there, or as mentioned before maybe the head gasket is on wrong and blocking the oil port somehow.. although it comes up around the bolt so unlikely.

 

Or the pick up tube may have come off or loose in the oil pan.

 

Honestly, take out the oil bolt and see if anything happens.

 

haha yeah i know i'm so frazzled right now it wouldn't be surprising if i forgot to put the oil back in- but i did, and the levels are up high.

 

i actually was thinking about taking that oil bolt out and shaving the tapered part down a little bit, i don't know i'm pretty desperate right now. i bought this to drive for the summer while i take the l20b out of my 720 and put it in my 620... both of them are in pieces right now. now i'm struggling just to get a ride to town. a couple of more days of this and i might have to slam these trucks together. that was not what i was planning at all.

[the nice machine]

and i guess i should go investigate this pick up tube matter you speak of... never thought of that.

[ggzilla]

You are going to remove the oil pan? When you can easily test it without doing that.

Really? Instead, why not simply remove the oil feed bolt (center head bolt, spark plug side), then crank the engine and see if oil come up through the hole. If it does, your pump and oil pickup are working.

 

 

This is why one should not buy parts "just in case" -- it becomes even more discouraging and disheartening when the "new" parts don't fix the problem. Find out what the cause is before buying more parts, in the end it works out better.

[the nice machine]

You are going to remove the oil pan? When you can easily test it without doing that.

Really? Instead, why not simply remove the oil feed bolt (center head bolt, spark plug side), then crank the engine and see if oil come up through the hole. If it does, your pump and oil pickup are working.

 

 

This is why one should not buy parts "just in case" -- it becomes even more discouraging and disheartening when the "new" parts don't fix the problem. Find out what the cause is before buying more parts, in the end it works out better.

 

no, i'm just studying the book again, trying to learn how the whole thing works. i'll be taking the oil bolt out first, i'm not jumping into taking out the oilpan just yet.. i'm just doing more research before i go any further here.

and i'm glad i got the newer shaft, i needed it. i was quoted 176 bucks for an oil pump, so of course i didn't do that, i got one for free. no harm in having extra parts around if they are dirt cheap.

[the nice machine]

and yes i should have taken out the oil bolt BEFORE i put on a new pump, but hey, it's pretty obvious that i am a beginner here, i don't have a clue what i'm doing.

[the nice machine]

You are going to remove the oil pan? When you can easily test it without doing that.

Really? Instead, why not simply remove the oil feed bolt (center head bolt, spark plug side), then crank the engine and see if oil come up through the hole. If it does, your pump and oil pickup are working.

 

 

This is why one should not buy parts "just in case" -- it becomes even more discouraging and disheartening when the "new" parts don't fix the problem. Find out what the cause is before buying more parts, in the end it works out better.

 

i pulled the oil bolt out of the head, it was dry as a bone, i started it and ran it for a minute, but no oil. so tomorrow i have a lot of reading and thinking to do. i'm done with this for today. i'm going to eat a nice dinner and watch a movie with my girlfriend, i will be back on it tomorrow. sorry for pestering you nice ratsun people for so much information. thanks.

[ggzilla]

Sounds like a plan. You can take the oil sender out of the side of the oil pump and see if oil comes out there. I'm not sure if an A12 oil pump needs priming or not ...?

[Kisor]

Sounds like a plan. You can take the oil sender out of the side of the oil pump and see if oil comes out there. I'm not sure if an A12 oil pump needs priming or not ...?

 

 

Another good idea. What filter are you using? Possible its clogged? Take it off and see if oil comes out, if not then its not getting to the pump.

[the nice machine]

Another good idea. What filter are you using? Possible its clogged? Take it off and see if oil comes out, if not then its not getting to the pump.

i'm using a brand new wix filter, and it it isn't clogged. i'm having my morning coffee right now reading the haynes book, trying to figure out my next move.

[the nice machine]

i'm kind of starting to feel like this is karma coming back to me for all of the cars i ditched on the side of the road when i was in my 20's (84 subaru gl-10, 81 ford econo-van, 83 subaru gl hatchback, 67 dodge dart,84 mazda b2000, 89 chevy celebrity, the list goes on, i was a bad kid).

i think this is why i drive datsuns now. i love these little bastards so much that i don't have the heart to abandon them.

when i look in my garage, i don't see a car that has been giving me grief for the last 3 weeks, i see a sick friend that needs my help.

that said, i've got more studying to do...

[the nice machine]

i took a couple of days off from working on the car. i gave up on the idea of making it to canby, so i'm not in as much of a hurry now.

 

this morning i put in a new oil pressure sender and a new terminal plug on the wire for safe measure. that got the oil light working.

the awesome part is that when i started the car, a few seconds later the oil light turned off. so this means i'm getting sufficient oil pressure, right? i havent found a sender that will run a light and pressure guage, but that is what i would like to do.

the bad oil sender and the new terminal plug.

good as new

lights working!

here's where i'm at now: i'm getting oil pressure, but oil still isn't making it up to the valves. oil comes out of the oil sender hole, so it is making it up that high. i checked the oil filter again, i emptied it, put it back on, ran the engine for a minute, and made sure it was filled back up. so oil is making it through the filter.

i took out the oil passage head bolt again, and it was still dry, it hasn't been touched by oil yet. so i'm guessing there must be something blocking the oil port up into the head? i was so thorough when i put in the new head gasket, i doubt that i blocked the oil port with it. it is possible, though. well i'm going to think about this for a while. i might end up having to take the head off again to figure this out.

anybody got any ideas? looks like i'll be on my own since most of you guys are probably on your way to canby already. have fun up there folks, i'll make it next time!

[the nice machine]

just started thinking about the valve stem oil seal on that #4 valve...

[the nice machine]

Sorry but did you check the oil level?

 

Other things that could have happened are a cam or crank bearing may have spun and its dumping pressure there, or as mentioned before maybe the head gasket is on wrong and blocking the oil port somehow.. although it comes up around the bolt so unlikely.

 

Or the pick up tube may have come off or loose in the oil pan.

 

Honestly, take out the oil bolt and see if anything happens.

 

so if a cam or crank bearing is spun and stealing pressure, will the oil light stay on?

[Kisor]

It only takes maybe 5-10 psi of pressure to turn the light off. Do the gauge and see what the actual pressure is.

 

The top end is the last place to get oil. If you study that oil system diagram you can see it oils the crankshaft and camshaft through the same galleys. Then moves around the center cam bearing into the bolt hole for the head, then up into the rocker rail. There are several places to have an issue that would bleed off pressure.

 

You got this car with a blown gasket right? I wonder if it was severly overheated and spun the center cam bearing....

 

 

 

See how the bearing on the left has 2 holes. If that bearing siezed on the cam and even just turned a little it moves the holes out of alignment to the galley in the block. Therfore blocking the passages above it.

 

See what actual pressure is first.

[the nice machine]

alrighty then. thanks!

[ggzilla]

It's very unlikely that a cam bearing has spun, since it was working before you changed the head gasket. Unless you changed the cam bearings that is ... they are normally good for the life of the engine.

[the nice machine]

It's very unlikely that a cam bearing has spun, since it was working before you changed the head gasket. Unless you changed the cam bearings that is ... they are normally good for the life of the engine.

well, i'm not sure the oil was working when i got the car. i only drove it for a few days before i realized that there was a blown gasket. i had just changed the oil, so when i opened up the valve cover everything was oily, i assumed it was working okay ( i didn't know that my oil light wasn't working, now that i've fixed the light, i've realized that it wouldn't have come on to warn me anyways, because it is getting enough pressure to turn it off).

so last night i couldn't rest until i took the head back off to double check that everything was lined up right- and it was on right. i cleaned the oil port that goes through the head, everything was clear. so now i know that the passages are clear all the way down to the oil port on the top of the block.

i'm just going to stay calm and think about this for a while.

not sure what my next move should be, i'm leaning toward putting the head back on and finding a sender that will run a pressure gauge so that i can get a better idea of how much pressure i'm really getting.

i keep wanting to blame that oil passage head bolt- but i still don't get oil up even when i remove it, so that can't be it.

the good news is, at least i'm learning some stuff.

[ggzilla]

The 720 i think has a dual-sender. Get one at the wreckers.

Or buy a non-brass Tee at the auto parts store. Take your sender with you so the match the threads.

[the nice machine]

The 720 i think has a dual-sender. Get one at the wreckers.

Or buy a non-brass Tee at the auto parts store. Take your sender with you so the match the threads.

 

sweet, my 720 is at my neighbors' house i'll go check that oil sender... and yeah i just stumbled onto the plumbing T thing. if there isn't one i can borrow from my truck i'll go with the t and run both the light and the gauge.

[LenRobertson]

Are you not seeing oil down the oil port in the block? If not, it seems like re-installing the head won't do you any good. I think you should be able to crank it over with the head off and hope to see oil shooting out the port in the block. If no oil there, you may be faced with removing the cam to see if it is getting oil. With all this lack-of-oil weirdness, pulling the pan and looking at the bearings isn't too bad an idea. Seeing the gunk in the rocker shaft makes me wonder if someone never changed oil, ran with a blocked filter, and oil passages in the block are gunked shut. But I hope I'm being overly pessimistic and it is something way simpler.

 

Len

[ggzilla]

My A15 rocker was full of sludgy stuff, yet the oil was always clean and engine looked clean.

 

Next step is to find out where the blockage is. Unscrew the oil sender and screw in the gauge. Pour oil over the rocker shaft and rocker arms and start it up. You should get 13 to 17 psi at idle (650 RPM). If you only get 5 or 10 psi there's a problem. Max allowable pressure is 60 psi.