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How To Remove Tranny Front Case


datzenmike

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The venerable Nissan FS5W71B has been around since about '77 and was the workhorse 5speed through '86 when the final up-grade was performed to strengthen for use with the 'new' more powerful KA and VG series motors. In it's B form it has been used on L20B, Z20E, Z22, Z24, SD22/SD25, CA18ET, CA20E, L24E, L28E, and LD28 at least. It fit at least four different series motors by changing the front case half to reflect the engine bolt pattern. This means that a replacement 5spd for your L series can be made by simply swapping the front case off your old tranny, with the L series bolt pattern, onto the tranny from an '82 SD22 diesel 720.

 

The FS5W71B had a wide variety of gear and over drive ratios. The 620 5spd had at least two different gear sets, one common to the three sets used in the 280z/zx, two in common to the three sets used in the 200sx (except for the o/d ratio) The 720 used at least two different gear sets and o/d. The Maxima one set similar to the 280zx but different o/d .... and on and on.

 

In order to swap the front cases, they have to be removed first. (I have removed one in a wrecking yard in about 10 minutes. It was broken and I just wanted to see what the problem was so I was not particularly careful)

 

I came into possession of a FS5W71B from an '85 200sx with a CA18ET. There were two reasons for hanging on to this tranny. One was it was a 5spd and should fit my truck's Z24 motor with a Z series bell put on it. Two, in '84 the FS5W71B got a necessary upgrade to the countershaft front bearing. By '84 the L series were gone and more powerful motors were available like the Z24. Don't laugh, take a look at how much torque the Z24 makes compared to the L20B. Up till then the countershaft bearing was prone to failure from side loading in all gears but forth. In '84, new 62mm bearings replaced the 56mm ones, at least in the 720 trucks and I had hopes that this was true in the '85 200sx and so, I saved the tranny.

 

So this afternoon I pulled the front case off the CA tranny in about an hour, being careful and taking lots of pictures.

 

FS5W71B CA front case. Yours may or may not have these three switches for the reverse lights, neutral position switch for fuel cut off system and high gear switch for emissions control.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx001Large.jpg

 

 

 

Drain bung location on bottom

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx002Large.jpg

 

 

 

Magnetic drain bung. Take note of fine particles, this is likely normal for it's age. A finer black paste is good. Always clean before re-fitting so you have a base to compare to next time you remove it. I have seen chunks and ball bearings stuck to them. If buying a tranny, roll it over and check the bung.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx005Large.jpg

 

 

 

Remove the switches on the forward case half. 19mm wrench or pliers if in a yard.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx006Large.jpg

 

 

 

Go around to front and with 12mm socket, extension and ratchet, remove the five front cover bolts.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx007Large.jpg

 

 

 

I tapped on the clutch arm pivot ball to break loose. Don't tap around the input shaft, I did and broke the projecting sheath off! Watch for, and collect any circular bearing pre load shims and save them.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx008Large.jpg

 

 

 

Beneath the cover plate is the large input bearing and countershaft bearing below it. To the left are the three shift rods: top to bottom: 1st & 2nd, 3rd & 4th, and reverse.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx010Large.jpg

 

 

 

The front cover allows oil to circulate between input and countershaft bearings and shift rods. I'm in luck! This tranny does indeed have the up-graded 62mm bearing. It may also have the new double steel syncro on second gear but I don't know what to look for and will be sending photos to a friend more knowledgeable to identify.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx011Large.jpg

 

 

 

The front case supports the two bearings and three shift rods. The input bearing has a snap ring around it that has to be removed first before you can remove the front case.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx012Large.jpg

 

 

 

Behind the front case is the 1" steel adapter plate that holds ALL the gear sets and also bolts the front and rear halves together. Remove the eight bolts.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx013Large.jpg

 

 

 

Tap the front case forward...

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx014Large.jpg

 

 

 

... to separate them.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx016Large.jpg

 

 

 

Tranny looks to be in excellent shape with no obvious wear or chipping of gear teeth. Very clean. Note groove in top front bearing. This is where the snap ring sits.

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx019Large.jpg

 

If you have a pre '84 tranny with the 56mm countershaft bearing, then assy is the reverse of taking apart.

 

If you find an '84 or older, the 62mm bearing can be pulled off and your 56mm bearing (or a new one) can be hammered on. Obviously the 62mm bearing will not fit the older 56mm hole in the case. Also the top 1st/2nd shifer rod was increased from 0.55" to 0.625" so the L series case has to be drilled out or the rod wont fit into it. I measured mine and it does indeed have the larger 1st/2nd shift rod, so my fingers are crossed that it also has the double syncro in second too!. If you look at the seventh picture down you can se the top shift rod is larger.

Edited by datzenmike
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Mike thats so odd I just took a bunch of pics to post a "how to" thread on this exact thread, of coarse your thread has way more info :D I will add some of our pics for fun :D

 

Basically did the same thing but didn't take out any of the sensors.... haha. It worked on my truck so hopefully it will work on this one :D

 

 

blue%20dude%20018.JPG

 

 

 

blue%20dude%20019.JPG

 

 

Zip out all those bolts

blue%20dude%20020.JPG

 

Pop out clip (don't loose spacer on the other bearing)

 

blue%20dude%20021.JPG

 

inspect gears just to make sure your not wasting you time.

 

blue%20dude%20022.JPG

 

Clean surfaces very nice so glue will stick and your driveway won't look like the one in front of Napa :D

 

blue%20dude%20025.JPG

 

 

Finished ready to install :D

 

 

So mike you are saying that all the all the 5 speeds Nissan made was the same one with just minor upgrades? Like the secondary shaft bearing?

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No there were several 5spds. One for under 1.6 liters like a B-210, an FS5W60A and the just over 1.6 to 2.0 liter FS5W63 A and L . The L was likely the short dogleg from the '77-'79 200sx that swaps into the 510 and 521. It's also in the L series HLA10 and Z series HLA10. It has a really small countershaft bearing. Dogleg on right tapered countershaft bearing much smaller than the 58mm bearing on the FS5W71B on the left. Is it any wonder I always say the dogleg is a weaker tranny. FS5W63L: the 63 refers to the distance in mm between the mainshaft and countershaft. The dogleg is 63 mm the FS5W71B is... 71mm, so much larger stronger gears can be fitted (and bigger bearings)

 

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/Tranny/trans280anddoglegonright.jpg[/img]"]trans280anddoglegonright.jpg

 

 

The dogleg can also be identified by the eight cover plate bolts (left) compared to the five on the FS5W71B (right)

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/Tranny/trans1280anddoglegfrontcovers.jpg[/img]"]trans1280anddoglegfrontcovers.jpg

 

As stated above the FS5W71B received a larger bearing in '84. (and hopefully more) In Mid '86 it received it's final up-grade, a new and improved shifter and perhaps an improved double steel syncro in second gear and was now called the FS5W71C type.

 

Now I have some Q's. Are you putting a KA FS5W71C front on a 280zx tranny???

 

Jeff can you post a picture of the 1st/2nd syncro area on the KA tranny, the one on the ground in the corner??? It's the one closest to the adapter plate and looks like this in 1st gear and 2nd:

 

FIRST

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/Tranny/620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx017Large.jpg[/img]"]620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx017Large.jpg

 

SECOND

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/Tranny/620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx018Large.jpg[/img]"]620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx018Large.jpg

 

(great minds think alike)

Edited by datzenmike
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Mike we matted the CA18ET trans with the KA bell for use on the 4 door we are building. I would post pics of the trans but it's in the dumpster right now haha :D It kinda sucks because the dude we got the car from said the tranny was bad but I couldn't see any signs of it but who wants to pull a ka tranny out of a dime! It's not fun. So we had a known working CA trans and a KA bell, what would you do :D

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What a coincidence! Both posts with a CA18ET tranny. What are the chances.

 

Oh yeah. somewhere along the line the steel adapter plate changes to aluminum... probably with the C type.

 

 

Thats exactly what I thought!! Our CA tranny has been around forever! So I'm still a little confused about the different trannys.. So the "C" and "B" are the main factors in what bell will fit? Do you know any more details? What is the S13 tranny? Wouldn't it be a B since the KA fits the CA?

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A 'C' is basically a 'B' with up-grades. The B type was not used on anthing after '86 so motors like the VG and KA never had them. Same as the C type were never used on any L or Z well actually it was used on the Z24i Hardbody motor. Because of their similarities, a can be used in place of a B type. (with some work)

 

S13, is that a 240sx after '86??? I believe the cut off is '86. C type after '86 when the VG came out. I'll check.

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Honda bond is the glue of choice :D

 

Yeah Mike s13's started in 89 so they would be the C right? What does that make the CA trans? I think it was out of an 85 or 86.... It fits though... You need to make a chart :D

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Okay Mike I have been pondering the bell swap some more, which brings 3 or so questions to light, maybe some time in the future we can answer them...

 

1. If the KA with the "H-box" (shifter) is a "C" and fits the CA which doesn't have "H-box" shifter what does that mean? I thought you said the CA was a "B"? Ours is a from a turbo CA could that be why it works? From what I have read/heard (Usually BS but I guess we will use if for somewhat of a guide) The zx trans holds 200whp, the ZX is a "B"??? So the SR/KA is supposed to hold 300 with eaze. So the bigger bearings make that much difference? What about the CA trans? It's not an H-box, how tough is it? Was your CA tranny out of a turbo? Were does it say that code on the tranny?

 

2. What is inside the H-box shifter? Is it the same basic trans as the CA?

 

3. There is a neutral censor? That gives me an idea :D :D

 

 

Mike I have more questions that need to be answered :D We need to find a Nissan tranny guy :D

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Hey I'm no expert but when I started digging into the Z series engines I had to become my own expert on them. :D just kidding about that, but to a point not much is known about the Z series motors, or the trannys for that matter. Mix in some BS, and mistakes, and info specific to one tranny that doesn't apply to another...and well you get a mess. So I started keeping notes and cross checking things and ripping shit apart whenever I could. One of the greatest ideas I had was collecting pictures of trannys and many members were only too glad to pass them on to me and I thank them. A picture is worth a thousand words and sure helps to identify what you have so you know where you're going. I'm pretty sure my info is correct or close and if anyone knows different or knows of an exception, hey I want to know about it. I hate info gaps. Took me a long time to hunt down and confirm that there are two different combustion chamber sizes for the Z20 engine... but I digress....

 

Let's see if I can answer your questions or add more info and you can draw a conclusion.

 

Q/1. If the KA with the "H-box" (shifter) is a "C" and fits the CA which doesn't have "H-box" shifter what does that mean? I thought you said the CA was a "B"? Ours is a from a turbo CA could that be why it works? From what I have read/heard (Usually BS but I guess we will use if for somewhat of a guide) The zx trans holds 200whp, the ZX is a "B"??? So the SR/KA is supposed to hold 300 with eaze. So the bigger bearings make that much difference? What about the CA trans? It's not an H-box, how tough is it? Was your CA tranny out of a turbo? Were does it say that code on the tranny?

 

'77-'80 FS5W71B remained more or less unchanged.

 

'80 a short tail was produced. Shifter modified and ears raised where the pin goes through. Speedo cog hold down bolt at 6 o'clock at bottom.

 

'84 a larger 62mm counter shaft bearing added to the front case to correct a failure problem. This would strengthen the FS5W71B for the newer Z24 and turbo motors coming out. 1st/2nd shifter rod size increased from 0.055" to 0.0625" More might have been done I'm still waiting on additional info about the 1st/2nd syncro. Until '84 all front bells would interchange now the the counter shaft bearing and shift rod has to match the case used.

 

'86.5 FS5W71B becomes the FS5W71C and receives more up grades (which might include double steel syncro rings to replace the brass ones in 1st/2nd gears, might have been done in '84???) The tail stock is revised and lengthened 1.5" and now has a 6 bolt cover over a totally different and up graded shift lever assy.

 

The bells form '84-'86.5 B type should swap easily with any C type bell... or bodies, however you look at it. Pre '84 B type have a smaller 58mm counter bearing hole and smaller shift rod hole in the case, so these two differences have to be addressed when swapping with a C type.

 

I assume the larger bearing makes the strength difference. All gears except forth send power through the counter shaft which exerts a tremendous side loading on it and the bearing. If the bearing starts to go all the gears shift sideways and loose alignment... boom! I have a picture of an older 58mm front bearing that failed... the counter gear snapped off just ahead of the adapter plate. When I pulled the magnetic drain bung it had a ball bearing on it!

 

My CA tranny was from an '85 CA18ET 200sx. It had this sticker, but I don't think it has anything to do with identifying the type:

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/Tranny/620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx004Large.jpg[/img]"]620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx004Large.jpg

 

 

When I took it apart, I looked in the usual place but nothing, so tonight I went out and found this, just above and to the rear of the fill bung. The #1 is either the first model of the first revision:

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/Tranny/620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx021Large.jpg[/img]"]620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx021Large.jpg

 

 

2. What is inside the H-box shifter? Is it the same basic trans as the CA?

 

I've never taken one apart, I don't know. Very similar, the C type has longer tailstock and different shifter than the B type. Also has the brass syncros were replaced with steel ones MAYBE as early as '84 in the B type, I haven't found out yet.

 

3. There is a neutral censor? That gives me an idea.

 

I think so, yes. In the tranny the front two switches are reverse and 5th gear, the third switch is in the tailstock and has to be the idle position sensor.

Edited by datzenmike
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  • 5 weeks later...

After pulling my 5 speed apart and checking the inside for problems, I found nothing wrong. I am going to assume it was the loose flywheel that caused the vibration. SO, after reading throught this and learning that Ice prefers the Honda Bond, I guess I'll use my Yamabond on mine.

I have a question. Where is the identification numbers on the trannys?

 

Great info here guys. THANK YOU!

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At the very top front there's supposed to be some numbers... but what they mean is beyond me. The CA71B in the picture is just above and to the rear of the fill bung. I have others and nothing is there. I don't know how Nissan knew which tranny to use when pulling them off the shelf at the factory.

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So how the hell are you able to know what you have? I need to pull mine BACK apart to redo the seals. I didn't think about useing a bonding agent instead of RTV. So I need to address that before I reinstall. I'll look again on the inside to see if there is anything on the inside.

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There is a code for the build date (month only) but you have to know for sure your tranny is the original for your vehicle. So what good is that as the year isn't indicated?

 

620CAFS5W71B85turbo200sx021Large.jpg

 

CA indicates the CA18ET or CA20E motor. (no way to tell as it will fit either) 71B would make it an FS5W71B you still would have to visually check that it's a 5 and not a 4spd. CA motors were used from '83 till '89 and you would have to know that all 200sx cars switched to the FS5W71C tranny in '86.5. This tranny could be any year between '83 and '86.5. This particular one has the larger counter bearing which was introduced in '84 so that narrows it a bit more. Look over to the right of the lettering...there is sometimes a 1, 2 or 3 in the casting but that signifies a casting change or revision. Possibly something of little importance such as extra ribbing on the sides.

 

Determining the tranny year is detective work. The year of manufacture can be narrowed down. If there was a year code I wish I had it.

 

I hate RTV goo. It's barely any good for valve covers. I hate seeing it slathered all over motors and timing covers. It ends up on the screen on the oil pick up tube.

Edited by datzenmike
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I hate RTV goo. It's barely any good for valve covers. I hate seeing it slathered all over motors and timing covers. It ends up on the screen on the oil pick up tube.

 

 

Funny. My daughter asked me why I was smearing it around with my finger. I just smiled and said so it will stay were I want it. I just put little dots of sealer on the gasket area and then smear them all together leaving a nice, clean, small amount of RTV were I want it. Now YamaBond is another storry. :D

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.... didn't mean you in particular. :o I tore my old original '78 apart once and swapped the shifter to get rid of some slop, Used this thick red/brown gasket maker in a tube on the adapter plate... just a smudge of it all the way around, no gasket, and bolted together. Not one problem with it. Several years later this tranny suddenly refused to stay in 5th, followed a few days later not staying in second so I swapped a late '70s 280zx in it. Wish I had saved it and tried to figure out what was wrong.

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  • 3 years later...

Arise from the depths! ***Said in my best Dr. Orpheus voice***

 

I'm always coming back to this thread so it seems like the place to ask a bell housing swap question.

 

I'm looking at a 5 speed from an 84' 200sx and I'm not sure my 4 speed bell from an L28 will fit. Anywhere I can look this up or does anybody know? I "think" it will work after the enlarging the counter bore for the bearing and boring out the upper shift rod.

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Read the first post.

 

It's for an '85 200sx bell removal. The earlier L series will bolt on with some 'adjustments' for fit as described in the text. It concerns the placement of the reverse light switch, counter bearing size, 1st/2nd shift rod diameter and speedometer drive pinion differences.

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They are identical.... except for one thing. Some 4 speeds have the reverse light swirch in a slightly different position to the 5 speed. All 5 speeds (I have ever seen) are like the one below...

 

FS5W71Breverseswitchlocation.jpg

 

Notice the raised round boss just an inch to the left? Some 4 speeds are drilled and tapped for a reverse switch. The 4 speed below has had the reverse switch hole plugged and a new hole located about an inch to the right....

 

RevSwitch.jpg

 

There's a chance that the '84 may have the larger 62mm counter bearing on it. ('85s had them for sure) Earlier transmissions used a 56mm bearing and the hole in the earlier case won't fit over the 62mm bearing. The fix is to simply use a gear puller to remove the larger 62mm bearing and replace with a new 56mm bearing. Not likely this will be the case here, but the tranny may have been swapped with a later one.

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Oh, I never noticed that difference before. Thanks! Great info for those of us trying to use what we've got.

 

I have 3 4 speeds, one is a type A for a series one, one is a type B for a series 2, and the other is in the basement barried under some stuff. I hope I can make something work.

 

I'm going to try and do my own machine work. So if it works out I'll post the steps I take. I have access to a miil/drill but so far in my limited experience the closest I've able to bore out holes has been within 0.003". I'd like to get down to a half thou before I try this on my own.

 

The gearing on the 200SX is not ideal for my setup but my car is a bear to drive at low speeds anyway so I may swap my rear gears out to 3.54. I'm running 195/50/15's and a 3.9 rear with a 3.55 1st. With a 3.22 1st and 3.54 rear I think I'll be happier at low speed and drop my cruising rpm's too.

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