Unable to restart Daily Driven '79 620 l20b

[banzai510(hainz)]

19 minutes ago, Mitchell said:

Since the new carb is doing about the same thing it must be something else..

 You swapped the new carb on? accell pump squirting gas?????? YES Or NO

 

 

On 1st page of this thread I mention the dist vac advance. But you never really responded to all the questions

 

 

 Pull the output of fuel pump crank motor ,Is the fuel pump shooting out gobs of gas?

Edited May 12 by banzai510(hainz)

[wayno]

There is something else going on, I would start over, remove the valve cover and make sure the cam is in the right spot at TDC, #1 cylinder lobes should be about 10 and 2, then check the distributor, 4pm from the drivers side, rotor pointed at #1 plug wire.

[datzenmike]

Have my doubts about cam timing... but??? To check cam timing, set accurately to TDC (compression stroke on #1 cylinder) by turning crankshaft in a clockwise direction and aligning the timing mark on the pulley and the timing scale. With the valve cover off, confirm that the front two valve springs are fully up and both valves CLOSED. Bring up to the mark by turning the crankshaft clockwise only! It's easy to overshoot, so if you do, back up 1/4 turn and do over as many times as needed.

 

Once done, look at the back of cam sprocket through the hole in the sprocket at 12 o'clock. You should see a notch in the sprocket, and just above it a small horizontal line etched into the cam thrust plate. The notch should be below and slightly to the right.

 

This cam, is perfectly timed...

 

[Mitchell]

Tomorrow morning I plan on checking the compression, timing and valve lash hot tomorrow, just finished raining here with over 3 inches. I did place a wood dowel in number 1 earlier this morning at TDC and it was in the up compression position, I also verified 11:25 (wide side left) on the distributor drive but I didn't have the valve cover off. I have read about distributor shaft wobble causing an ignition wall, hoping that's what it is... but what I read said it occurs at a higher rpm. As mentioned I have a spare distributor being rebuilt. Can a distributor be assembled 180 degrees out and would that cause any issues?
I can verify the new carb accelerator pump squirts fuel. I have also swapped brand new flamethrower II 0.6 ohm coil as well as a new NGK 1.2 ohm coil both work verified with a multi-meter and the 0.6 runs slightly better. So maybe some spark scatter? The original Diamond coil is reading a little off on the secondary and primary measurements.

 

So recapping; Coil, Cap, Rotor, Wires and Plugs are all new. Swapped 4 different ignitors 2 were new aftermarket 2 are E12-80 oem used.

Edited May 12 by Mitchell

[datzenmike]

I doubt the EI matchbox distributor would ever wobble from wear. There is no load on then just spins a magnet. A points distributor is much difference and has a tight spring to compress the points.

 

There are two TDCs. One compression with #2 cylinder valves closed, the one you want, and the exhaust stroke you do not

[Mitchell]

Thanks for that, I'll check for both being closed. Jeff at Advanced Distributors said he sees them come in with a crack sometimes in the magnet, so maybe as a guess, the centrifugal force at about 2500 could cause the no spark or spark scatter occurs,  he also mentioned a ball bearing can disintegrate or fall out that supports the plate. I've got over a 100k miles on this distributor. To me the shaft felt like it has some play I can feel when pushing on it side to side.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Orginal carb

the accell pump issue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Is a big hint

 

Motor idled. 

I think ignition is primarily good with compression.

 

 

Im out. I gave all these suggestions on the 1st page. Just repeating my self .all with the 1980 out ect.....ect....

 

 

If I was there I think I can figure it out in half hour

Edited May 13 by banzai510(hainz)

[Mitchell]

Thanks for all of your efforts, I'm frustrated with it as I think I shorted out the starter today accidentally... 

[datzenmike]

You have to let cool down after every failed starting attempt. 

[Mitchell]

Thanks Mike, Just getting a little short on patience today, tomorrow will make a month since this all began and have spent over a thousand dollars without exaggeration. I'll get back on it tomorrow, What happened was I got careless with having the timing light, the starter trigger and a battery charger on at the same time and saw some sparks a that was it for today... fusible link and fuses are all okay but the starter not

Edited May 13 by Mitchell

[Mitchell]

Here are the timing verification photos, It runs, starts easily but won't rev still. Checking with a timing light, While idling at 750 rpm, I don't have enough adjustment on the distributor to advance the timing it's limited to about 5 degrees ATDC with the the plate bolt loosened and clocked all the way. Before I drop the pump, would changing the cam pulley to position number 1 or 3 help?

I removed the distributor bolt and temporarily clamped the base to gain a little more advance but still not enough but does improve a little. I also tried clocking the wires both directions, still not enough adjustment.

 

Cam looks correct, at 10 degrees static timing, pulley aligns with 2 on mark with both valves closed...?

 

Distributor drive looks correct, small side left at 11:25...?

 

Timing Mark on pulley at about 10 degrees, photo is a little blurred but mark is in silver paint area about in the middle...?

 

Distributor Rotor facing rearward on number 1...

 

Edited May 17 by Mitchell

[banzai510(hainz)]

3 hours ago, Mitchell said:

Before I drop the pump, would changing the cam pulley to position number 1 or 3 help?

You need to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

when checking for zero on a motor rotate Crank to to Zero  then check cam timing then the oil spindal.

 

 

YOU NEVER TOLD ME IF THE CARB ACCELL PUMP WAS FIXED OR NOT. !!!!!!!!!!!!! IT WONT REV EITHER IF THIS NOT FIXED.

 

Now this might be hard. you need to tell us exactly step by step what you do. what you change and why you changed it cause I gave you all the awsers already then you do the oppisite not fixing the first issue of NO accell pump gas squirtting. then now when all over the place.

Timing just dont change ect...... with the orginal moto distributor.

 

Now I dont know if this the orginal dist of another match box. But I do see the not commonf dist mount. on Matchbox there where 2 types . If you sent the orginal one in and this is different we need to now and did they install EXACTLY at the right spot?????????

How I tell is if I get motor running once warmed up ,choke off I should be able with a timing light get the motor to run down to Zero and up to 25dbtc but turning the dist one way then another.. If not then the spindal is off or more common is somebody put the other matchbox that uses a differnt tang mount.. You are to look closely when the distributor lock down the timing slot should be right ON in the middle of the timing slot. Only worry about 10deg BTDC once you get it running. Never time the crank to the head cam timing at 10deg..  OK now look at the photo very carefull the 2 right pedastals. A match box will fit on both but the tangs are off set. Youll never get this in time. if you swapped them around. Im not a minda reader on what you all this cause you never answer tha last question on the accell pump and now we here. key is the timing plate that bolts under the the dist has to match and usually is done as a set. But people just pull off the dist and bolt it to another L20 thinking the same and its the other pedastal mount for the previous year l20.. I know you ent a distributor in to get fixed for nother. I have a feeling it was fine. He will rip you off Im sure..Saying it was bad worn ect... They all are worn.   So this is what I think as a armchair mechanic from a distance. The carb accell pump was bad and then you swapped the dist inducing another prplem proplem. 

[datzenmike]

The mark on the pulley must be aligned with the ZERO on the timing scale. It's important to turn the pulley clockwise up to and stop on the ZERO. If you over shoot back up 1/4 turn and do again. You must NOT back up to the line to set TDC, it must be only clockwise. If you reverse to TDC you will intruduce chain slack 

 

Now look at the notch on back of the cam sprocket and the horizontal line behind it. Notch should be just below the line and possibly slightly to the right. If so the cam is properly timed.

 

 

If at TDC the rotor direction doesn't really matter much as long as the rotor tip is under one of the wires on the cap. This wire now becomes #1 and the others are counter clockwise #3 #4 and #2. 

 

Timing is 12 ⁰ BEFORE TDC NOT 5 ⁰ AFTER!!!!!!!!!  

[wayno]

This is what my cam looks like at 10am and 2pm, I cannot see number one lobe.

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

I see both lobes !!!!!!!!!! your going to confuse him.

[Mitchell]

Thank you all for replying. This is the original distributor and pedestal that is just like the 3rd one on the right in the photo that came with the truck and has over 100 thousand miles that I've put on it. I've never changed the pedestal. I did send another L20b matchbox of unknown condition to be rebuilt by Jeff at Advanced. I bought it from AbcUsedParts Recyclers but did not receive the pedestal with it though.
The accelerator pump does work with the new carb. The photo of the Cam is with both the intake and exhaust cams in the up position as shown more clearly in wayno's photo, at 10 and 2. I use a starter trigger button on the starter to position the crank pulley and so it only turns the crank clockwise and when I overshoot I just go around twice to get it right. I'll take another set of pics with the crank pulley exactly on 0. This is a closeup of where the crank pulley was...

 

Edited May 17 by Mitchell

[Shortbed]

may i thread jack? been watching this post super closely as i have the same condition. please feel free to tell me to F off untill @Mitchell gets his pig running. 😊

[datzenmike]

The lobes both pointing generally upwards is only to confirm that you are on the compression stroke, nothing else. TDC has to be set by the mark on the pulley and the timing scale ZERO. 

[Mitchell]

Thanks Mike, just getting started going through it and first setting it at 0, also received the rebuilt distributor from Jeff today... I will post the timing pictures later on.

[Mitchell]

Finally SOLVED!!!

 

Here are the timing photos at 0 degrees...

Crankshaft Pulley Position >>>

 

Camshaft Timing Gear Alignment Position >>>

 

Camshaft 10 and 2 Position >>>

 

Distributor Drive Position >>>

 

Distributor Rotor Position >>>

 

So after checking the timing, had the same result with the original distributor having a low rev maximum. So I went ahead and installed the newly rebuilt distributor I received today from Jeff at Advanced Distributors and It started right up and NOW runs better than before all this occurred on April 13th. Timing is now at 15 degrees BTDC. So apparently a weak accelerator pump combined with a faulty distributor were the causes. Thanks to all who helped solve both of these problems!

Edited May 18 by Mitchell

[banzai510(hainz)]

Well Damn you did it.

 

15 might be more adv than you need put if it runs good there then fine. I try 12btdc.

 

Since its a new carb I assume you adjusted the mixture also. on the weber. But If its good then say fuck it I dont want to do another 4 pages to adjust that.

 

well what he say was bad with the old one???????????????

[Mitchell]

Thanks, still enjoying the moment it started right away and that it ran perfect immediately! I haven't fine tuned the weber yet, I just matched the number of turns on the jet with my old one, might not need to do anything except lean out the main a bit while driving it around, so don't worry about another 4 pages yet! The old distributor hasn't been rebuilt yet, so unfortunately don't know exactly what's wrong with it until I send it in to be rebuilt, but I'll make sure to let you know once I find out. The recycled one I just bought last month, is the one that was sent off to be rebuilt and is now running on my truck. Before I sent it out I had tried it and it wouldn't even run, a couple of pops that's it, but that was before the new carb (new accelerator pump/new clean inlet tubes). He said the magnet ring had cracks in it, he included the broken magnet ring pieces in a bag with it. He also included a note to set the timing at 14-16 btdc. Talked to him this morning and he really knows his stuff, he's a member here on Ratsun aka DistributorGuy he actually was able to run his 620 truck to 141 mph at the flats...

Edited May 19 by Mitchell
spelling

[banzai510(hainz)]

they have 94 I think on east caost and you can run more advance. West coast I have hard time with detonation running cheap 87 octane.  I think I run 12 myself. but on open heads it can be worse.

[Mitchell]

Yes we do and ethanol free at the pump as well. I agree and backed it off by ear a degree or 2, have to say my truck is running the best ever, smooth and feels like 2 or 3 hp increase, Now onto that nasty leaky front main seal...

Edited May 21 by Mitchell

[banzai510(hainz)]

23 hours ago, Mitchell said:

2 or 3 hp increase

people get that same feeling changing the airfilter.

 

glad its DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!