frankendat Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 I like the idea of a pre-oiler, as there are many instances where my truck could go a week or more without starting. Part of swapping a KA24E into a 1984 720 4wd king cab, as I understand it, involves modifying the oil pan, for clearance. A dry sump system would answer all of this, but is cost prohibitive. The pre oilers that I was considering were 1 qt, but they are offered in 3 qt. The oil pan capacity on the KA24E is 4 qt. I sent the following to Canton (oil accumulator manufacturer): "If arranged as a pre-oiler, then could a 3 qt accusump be set to completely release and function as additional pan/re-circulation oil storage ( thereby maintaining original operating oil capacity) Only at engine shutdown would oil be diverted into the accumulator for the next engine start." They responded: "The accusump is designed to assist whatever you have for capacity when it feels a drop in pressure, it will evacuate whatever is necessary to a full dump to resolve any drops in operating oil pressure. Then it will recharge as the oil pressure gets back to normal... I think if you have at least a 4 quart capacity and you go with our 3 quart Accusump it should give you great results. If the pan is less than 4 quarts I would be hesitant to say..." __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Looking at the KA24E oil pan, the simplest way to modify would seem to be straight cutting off the section that hangs down. Since it is a 4 qt pan with the hanging down bit, it would be less without it. But, I believe there is a strong likelihood the Canton rep. answering my email provided a CYA answer. To the esteemed expert collection of knowledge that is Ratsun, if the modified pan capacity is 2 qt and I add a 3 qt accumulator may I rest easy with 5 qt of oil circulating or am I lacking understanding? Would the addition of an oil cooler, be another avenue to add capacity, that was removed by modifying the pan? (1 qt accumulators are less expensive than 3 qt) Thank you Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 Billions of engines have proven that letting sit does not measurably shorten their life. See about the oil filter... does it have an anti drain back valve? I can't see hows oil drains back through a Nissan gear driven pump. If you've ever had one apart the tolerances are tight. I've pulled rods and crankshafts our of L and Z series engine that have been sitting in junk yards for years. They are always dripping with oil. What about a KA24E oil pan from a 4x4. The front differential is on the same side as the 720 so the KA pan is likely shaped to clear it. Quote Link to comment
frankendat Posted February 4 Author Report Share Posted February 4 Eye2Eye or something like that, mentioned the oil pan modification, my mind is turning to mush. I reordered a part. Which means, I decided a part for the Datsun was needed, I researched where to get it, compared prices, sought out deals, ordered it, received it, waited a few months, repeated the process and now I have 2. The second one came and I was excited (I still get a little nervous ordering online) I went to put it my Datsun parts drawer and what do you know, there is one already in there. Son of a B.... Anyway, on oil accumulators, they make sense to me. I am suckered by Canton's advertising and I like the idea of a dry sump, just not the price tag. Utilizing a big accumulator seems like a poor man's dry sump. Do you see flaws in the plan presented infra? A 2qt pan (it will likely be more) and a 3qt accumulator?.....add an oil cooler to increase capacity a qt or two?.....thoughts? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 If the oil is in the accumulator then it's not in the pan and the pump is only working on what IS in the pan over heating and over working that 2? liters. Meaning full low oil pressure is almost unheard of. Reserve is fine if it's being circulated and used. If modifying the pan just add a bulge in the side(s) for added volume. Modify the pick up to reach the lowest point where ever this is. Quote Link to comment
frankendat Posted February 5 Author Report Share Posted February 5 On 2/4/2025 at 2:21 PM, datzenmike said: If the oil is in the accumulator then it's not in the pan and the pump is only working on what IS in the pan over heating and over working that 2? liters. Meaning full low oil pressure is almost unheard of. Reserve is fine if it's being circulated and used. If modifying the pan just add a bulge in the side(s) for added volume. Modify the pick up to reach the lowest point where ever this is. It was my understanding (which is often wrong) when the accumulator valve is engaged before startup, the 3 quarts are dumped into the engine and right before shutdown the 3 pressurized quarts are packed in the accumulator, to be ready for the next startup. In the interim, between startup and shutdown, while the engine is running, the oil in the accumulator circulates. Is this incorrect? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 If the modified pan now only holds 2 qts. dumping another two qts. at start up is going to severely over fill and bury the spinning crankshaft in oil. I think the message said that if it senses a low oil pressure, it assumes low oil level on the pick up tube, it begins dumping oil back into the engine till the pressure returns to normal. Once normalized it re-fills the accumulator. Now low oil pressure is very rare and this means the two qts in reserve are not used but the two in the pan are over used like running two qts. low all the time. Quote Link to comment
frankendat Posted Friday at 01:35 AM Author Report Share Posted Friday at 01:35 AM On 2/5/2025 at 4:15 PM, datzenmike said: If the modified pan now only holds 2 qts. dumping another two qts. at start up is going to severely over fill and bury the spinning crankshaft in oil. I think the message said that if it senses a low oil pressure, it assumes low oil level on the pick up tube, it begins dumping oil back into the engine till the pressure returns to normal. Once normalized it re-fills the accumulator. Now low oil pressure is very rare and this means the two qts in reserve are not used but the two in the pan are over used like running two qts. low all the time. I see said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted Friday at 02:46 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 02:46 AM Just an opinion. Maybe more research? I would modify the pan to hold more. Like a bulge in the sides. Not an oil cooler but one of those adapters to move and add a second oil filter but also flow into a two quart sealed container and then back to the block. Definitely braided flex lines and AN fittings. The tank and everything should be over rated for pressure. I have an oil cooler and the hoses to it on the rad support are 200 PSI rated. I doubt there would be any drain back into the engine with two filters and even a cup or two would be quickly pushed back on start up. This would retain the 4 quarts, two in the engine and two externally on the pressure side being constantly circulated and used. Oh... I would include a drain bung on the pressure container for oil changes. BTW the hottest day in July it took over an hour to get any heat into the oil, the gauge starts reading above 50C. Out on the highway under load it just barely to 81C and normally ran in the 70s. Eighty C, that's barely what the coolant tuns at. Datsun L20Bs don't need an oil cooler. Quote Link to comment
frankendat Posted Friday at 02:55 AM Author Report Share Posted Friday at 02:55 AM 6 minutes ago, datzenmike said: Just an opinion. Maybe more research? I would modify the pan to hold more. Like a bulge in the sides. Not an oil cooler but one of those adapters to move and add a second oil filter but also flow into a two quart sealed container and then back to the block. Definitely braided flex lines and AN fittings. The tank and everything should be over rated for pressure. I have an oil cooler and the hoses to it on the rad support are 200 PSI rated. I doubt there would be any drain back into the engine with two filters and even a cup or two would be quickly pushed back on start up. This would retain the 4 quarts, two in the engine and two externally on the pressure side being constantly circulated and used. Oh... I would include a drain bung on the pressure container for oil changes. BTW the hottest day in July it took over an hour to get any heat into the oil, the gauge starts reading above 50C. Out on the highway under load it just barely to 81C and normally ran in the 70s. Eighty C, that's barely what the coolant tuns at. Datsun L20Bs don't need an oil cooler. I reworked your previous catch about the oil not circulating and sent it in question form to Canton (the accusump sellers) We'll see what they say Quote Link to comment
iceman510 Posted 15 hours ago Report Share Posted 15 hours ago The valve to the accumulator is just a gate. When open pressure is equal everywhere. It doesn't really "sense" anything, but just has volume to provide if pressure drops. I have a 3 qt on my race car (a 510) I think. I close it before shutting the car off after being on track. I open it before heading out onto the track. I use 40 psi as the guideline. You have to consider more than total volume in the system, accounting for available volume. When the oil is in the accumulator and the system is pressurized, I believe it is not circulating. I added an oil cooler and lines to another car once, and didn't get the fill volume right in the system. Under higher rpm the amount of oil in the pan was not enough and I had some pump starvation and damaged a rod bearing. I think the 2 qt pan, rest in the accumulator is not a good idea. Next time I do an oil change on the race car I will have to observe my situation. I bet I am not emptying the accumuator. I think I do 6 or 7 quarts with the larger pan and oil cooler for a change. Quote Link to comment
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