0R4NGE

[Crashtd420]

50 minutes ago, shlammed said:

Looking more into the geometry the cam drive for fuel pump would be in the valve cover.  The easiest way to do this would be currently looks like drilling a press-fit pin into the back side of the cam and running the sensor through the valve cover at the firewall.

I haven't even gotten this far.... 

I'm hoping to build a stand soon to see what's possible... 

 

I'll be interested to see how you proceed...

 

 

[Z23T]

Just my 2 cents, but if you are going to spend the time to turbo an L-series engine I would build a L20B, or a LZ22, a Z22 bottom end with a L-series head. The added displacement and the additional torque that comes with it will be nice to have driving on the street and should help to spool the turbo.

 

When I put a Z22 bottom end on my Z18ET turbo engine the added torque was very noticeable, and made driving the car a lot more fun. I don't think you need forged pistons or aftermarket rods as long as you keep the boost below 15 psi, make sure the engine isn't running lean, the timing is not to aggressive, use ARP rod bolts, and you don't spin the engine over 6500 rpm all the time. My engine has been running stock rods with ARP rod bolts, Sealed Power hypereutictic pistons,a compression ratio just below 8:1, the stock distributor and EFI with larger injectors, and 15 psi for ten years. I did pop a head gasket once, but I installed head studs and haven't had an issue since. The engine isn't super powerful, my guesstimate is around 230 hp.

 

The Nissan KA twin cam is a nice swap that has been done many times in 510's, and they seem to be able to reliably put out 300+ hp when turbo'd. Also the Honda K-series swap you talked about is very appealing. They can make a ton of power, and the aftermarket support for them is massive.

[Crashtd420]

16 hours ago, shlammed said:

Looking more into the geometry the cam drive for fuel pump would be in the valve cover.  The easiest way to do this would be currently looks like drilling a press-fit pin into the back side of the cam and running the sensor through the valve cover at the firewall.

I looked at my engine last night and I see what you mean.... it definitely has to go in the valve cover somehow.... 

I think the hardest part will be figuring our where to put the pin and how difficult it would be to drill the cam....

I think a replacement for the eccentric with the pin might be easier and place the sensor on the front, then you can clock the pin location if off..  although that won't look as good.... 

[shlammed]

1 minute ago, Crashtd420 said:

I looked at my engine last night and I see what you mean.... it definitely has to go in the valve cover somehow.... 

I think the hardest part will be figuring our where to put the pin and how difficult it would be to drill the cam....

I think a replacement for the eccentric with the pin might be easier and place the sensor on the front, then you can clock the pin location if off..  although that won't look as good.... 

 
your also going to have to find a long reach sensor to do that. But that’s also an option. 

[shlammed]

5 hours ago, Z23T said:

Just my 2 cents, but if you are going to spend the time to turbo an L-series engine I would build a L20B, or a LZ22, a Z22 bottom end with a L-series head. The added displacement and the additional torque that comes with it will be nice to have driving on the street and should help to spool the turbo.

 

When I put a Z22 bottom end on my Z18ET turbo engine the added torque was very noticeable, and made driving the car a lot more fun. I don't think you need forged pistons or aftermarket rods as long as you keep the boost below 15 psi, make sure the engine isn't running lean, the timing is not to aggressive, use ARP rod bolts, and you don't spin the engine over 6500 rpm all the time. My engine has been running stock rods with ARP rod bolts, Sealed Power hypereutictic pistons,a compression ratio just below 8:1, the stock distributor and EFI with larger injectors, and 15 psi for ten years. I did pop a head gasket once, but I installed head studs and haven't had an issue since. The engine isn't super powerful, my guesstimate is around 230 hp.

 

The Nissan KA twin cam is a nice swap that has been done many times in 510's, and they seem to be able to reliably put out 300+ hp when turbo'd. Also the Honda K-series swap you talked about is very appealing. They can make a ton of power, and the aftermarket support for them is massive.

 

If doing a swap the roi is pretty low for any of those engines especially being that I already need to do a manual swap. 
 

My spreadsheet with expected costs (always wrong) will be coming close to complete soon. There is a high probability I will be trying to dig a Honda engine out of a junkyard. Hopefully I don’t get impatient and try to do it in the snow. 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

4 hours ago, shlammed said:

 
your also going to have to find a long reach sensor to do that. But that’s also an option. 

Why not make the trigger wheel bigger to be closer to the pickup? It could be damn near as big as the cam sprocket. And thin enough that it doesn't add any weird mass to the front of the cam. You could cut one out on a plasma table and clean it up on a lathe to make it concentric and true.

[paradime]

6 hours ago, shlammed said:

 

If doing a swap the roi is pretty low for any of those engines especially being that I already need to do a manual swap. 
 

My spreadsheet with expected costs (always wrong) will be coming close to complete soon. There is a high probability I will be trying to dig a Honda engine out of a junkyard. Hopefully I don’t get impatient and try to do it in the snow. 

 

I enjoy the research and planning stage of a project. IMO it's the best investment you can make on a build. One thing that shouldn't be overlooked though is what's your time and sanity are worth.

 

Heatsink with the L having the in and out on the same side is a serious issue. The stock L is not designed to handle that. Starting with an EFI engine with crossflow head would make more sense, but there are lots of well documented cost effective options that aren't transverse. You might do well to add another option to your spreadsheet. That said I understand the need for a challenge to get through winter.

[shlammed]

Being that I do most of the fabrication, machining, etc myself it makes no sense $ wise to get an SR20.  The imports are $5-6k right now.

 

If Im considering a budget type swap and Im doing it myself:

 

k24a2 ~$500 at u-pull yards

3/8 or 1/2" steel plate laser cut for adapter ~$50 if I can come up with a design.  or maybe closer to $100 in aluminum

stock flywheel and pressure plate (might get with engine?  ~$100 otherwise)

s13 clutch disc (likely have from an S13 project)

custom input bushing $DIY

maybe mill the face of the bellhousing to depth $DIY

engine mounts $DIY

oil pan work $DIY

k20 oil pump maybe? ~$250

flipped/tube subframe $DIY

Driveshaft shortening $DIY

 

Stock honda wiring reworked to simplify (likely from an auto car) and to connect to power $DIY

Some kind of programmable ECU - lots of options for the hondas. ~$600

 

Header ~$150 (I can DIY and materials arent too bad)

RWD Intake manifold ~$500 (I still dont like intake manifold work)

Rad hoses ~$20

Intake tube/filter ~$20

fuel pump/lines (FPR a part of the honda rail or is it constant pressure?.. to research) ~$150

 

 

Lots of custom work and lots of nickles and dimes.

[paradime]

I assumed we were talking about a Honda K20. Sounds like pretty optimistic numbers for a decent milage Acura k24a2 engine swap on a budget. No doubt you're capable of saving $ doing it DIY, but another cost factor to consider is what's your time and sanity worth. For instance, a wiringspecialties K24 RWD wiring harness is $800 USD, or you can spend 20 hours combing out, repairing, and resoldering what you pull with the engine. You can always keep your eye open and pick up an SR20/KA24 with trans from an abandoned project for pennies on the dolor. Not that I'm bias for Nissan or anything...  ;o)

[shlammed]

I still have a handful of s13 bits from when I had one about 15 years ago. I believe transmission is one of them. That’s what I will be adapting to the K or the L either way I go. 

[shlammed]

The harness work wouldn’t be that bad with a kswap. But agreed it is time. That’s why I am so heavily considering turbo L16. 
 

another kswap option is a wire in ecu and you just run your own wires and avoid reworking the stock bits. That’s not really any less time but it may fit rwd easier.  If you look at someone like wiring specialties those harnesses are more like $1400. 

[paradime]

The exchange rate is 1.37 so that might account for some of the confusion. Cool you got the trans covered.

 

I'll admit, for me wiring is the devil's work, and I have no patience for it. You don't strike me as someone who shies away from a challenge. Best of luck, and I look forward to seeing this 510 come together no matter what direction you go.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

2 hours ago, paradime said:

The exchange rate is 1.37 so that might account for some of the confusion. Cool you got the trans covered.

 

I'll admit, for me wiring is the devil's work, and I have no patience for it. You don't strike me as someone who shies away from a challenge. Best of luck, and I look forward to seeing this 510 come together no matter what direction you go.

Wiring is one of my favorite parts of any job. Invoicing the customer for wiring is a lot less fun. I'll put 50 hours into an EFI integration job using a new engine harness. But when done, they are completely separate from the body harness, which makes them easy to work on. I also hide my ECM/ECUs, which makes integration into the body a bit more time consuming.

[shlammed]

Yeah. I have a universal harness for a link g4 system in my boxes of bits. That would be easy enough for either the l16 efi or k24 but also the ecu are not inexpensive. Would have to commit to that but it’s a good system and easy to wire. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by shlammed

[paradime]

I have a Link G4 Storm and wiring specialties harness in my SR20 510. I'm running an ethanol/gas variable tune with a flex fuel sensor and sequential ignition through LS4 coils. The Link and engine harness have been 100% solid, but can't say the same for the dash and body wiring. After multiple exorcisms, the devil still lives in there. 

[shlammed]

That’s my worst fear. 

[shlammed]

this will be a cross-post from the classifieds but I am in search of a clutch pedal bolt.  (or can you still buy them? maybe i will call nissan)

[ddrum]

12 hours ago, shlammed said:

this will be a cross-post from the classifieds but I am in search of a clutch pedal bolt.  (or can you still buy them? maybe i will call nissan)

I had to buy one from a hardware store with a couple of washers as it was a tad longer

[shlammed]

Headed to my cottage tonight to try to get the car started....

I have my own workflow list planned, but what does Ratsun suggest their own "get it started" list would look like for a 510 that has sat for 25years?

 

Cheers and happy new years!

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

There are really two types of job lists for a car that's been sitting a long time. The two basic scenarios listed below determine which type of list you make.

 

1 - You intend to restore everything and you're all in.

2 - You want to address things as they come up and don't want to restore everything right away.

 

Assuming #2, break the car's functionality down into the basic systems. For the purposes of keeping to a NEED-vs-WANT list, I leave out anything body related or anything that does not have a direct impact on if the car runs and drives. These systems listed below are vital to the car's road-worthiness.

 

A - Chassis/suspension

B - Drivetrain

C - Brakes

D - Fuel system

E - Cooling system

F - Electrical system

G - Exhaust system

 

Unless I am going to tear everything apart and set up for a restoration, I ALWAYS get the engine running and the car driving with minimal effort before I really tear into the job. Use a fuel can to bypass the fuel tank system, run a garden hose (if you have to) into the radiator or even straight to the motor and rig a straight-to-battery ignition if needed, just to get the engine fired. Before firing the engine, remove the valve cover and dump some oil on the cam and valvetrain, remove the spark plugs and squirt some WD40 into the cylinders, check or change the oil/filter, and give it a crank. If the engine turns, it's time to see if it will fire.

 

Firing the engine, most important thing is to watch for oil pressure. On cars with electrical gauges, I'll remove the PSI sender and replace it with a fitting to run a mechanical gauge, which I will tape to the fender so I can watch it as I attempt to fire the engine. Also, prime the carb by pouring a 1/4 cup or so of fuel straight down the float bowl vent and some into the butterflies. Have a fire extinguisher or two handy and an exit strategy in case it goes up in flames. Not really joking at all. Crank the motor and watch the PSI gauge. If it doesn't build pressure within 10 seconds, remove the oil pump drive gear and prime the pump with a long bit flattened on the end, powered by a drill.

 

Note - if it backfires out of the carb and starts a little fire in the carb, crank it with the starter so the flames get sucked into the motor. You'll know when it's time to grab the fire extinguisher or bail out completely.

 

Once it fires, check and try to fix any leaks that come up. Then let it run for as long as you can to build heat and start the loosening up process. Have the radiator cap removed and watch for the coolant to start moving. This means the t-stat has opened. If it doesn't start circulating, the t-stat may be stuck and you should fix it before you keep running it. I also stick a meat style thermometer down the radiator neck to watch the actual coolant/water temp, not relying on the gauge in the dash at all.

 

Why do I go through all this effort before I replace any hoses or rebuild the carb, distributor, etc? Because this way you learn really quickly what the car needs and you can focus your time and money there.

 

I address each system in their entirety, one by one, and by importance. The car can't run without a good clean/new fuel system, the trans won't go into gear without a functioning clutch system, etc. Get it running, then moving, then stopping, and worry about the chassis later.

 

Sounds fun. I wish I could be there to witness it coming back to life.

 

[shlammed]

Thanks dude!

 

Thats more or less my plans for this weekend.  Im not intending to do any wild disassembly and restoration.  Its going to be a driver that I slowly do things with.

 

my 2023 goals really are wheels/tires which mean I need to figure out suspension to get the proper backspacing/offset and get a floor shift manual in there (I have s13 trans and arranged the rest of the bits to make it work on the L16 should it work this weekend).  aaaannnddd since I already know the exhaust is crusty as heck, I do my own work and I have a rack full of stainless I anticipate an exhaust.  Beyond that I just want it to drive if I can. 

 

If it doesnt work out I promise myself I wont get bummed out.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I had a car catch fire while on the lift once, which is why I stressed that point. I had to wait while it was coming down before I could attempt to get the fire out.

[shlammed]

Well, didn’t go entirely as expected. The engine wouldn’t spin from the crank with the spark plugs out. 
 

pulled the valve cover and a lash pad was tossed out and another was sideways. 
Decided to pull the engine. 
 

When I removed the manifolds there was some pretty significant crystallizing in the exhaust ports. Possibly coolant? Do these heads have coolant passages around the exhaust ports that leak?

 

The L16 is now out of the car, on the engine stand and at my house. I will tear it down, clean it up and see what’s left before buying a rebuild kit. 

If it’s in good shape I will do a quick diy hone, new rings, a gasket set and maybe double valve springs for if I decide to turbo the engine. 
If it’s not in good shape I will have to reassess but a Honda swap was already something I was exploring. 

[paradime]

No coolest leaking specific to the exhaust ports, but it does sound like a blown head gasket, and ran that way for a while. Also sounds like it was either over revved or a valve was sticking and tossed the lash pads. Likely the later, and why it sat in the barn all those years.

[shlammed]

Here are some photos now that Im back in civilization and have real internet...

 

 

Setting up.  My dad and I were both working on our own interests

 

One of my old toys that I found under the carpet in the car.

 

Although the paint in other spots isnt 100% (some was ground off because of a parking accident) the rest of the paint will polish up nice for the time being.  

 

The chassis is pretty clean.

 

 

 

This is about when I found that I couldnt rotate the engine with the crank.

 

Pulled it.  Rust free but tons of grease on the suspension bits.

 

 

Lash pad out of rotation.  Another one was on the floor of the head.

 

 

The crustiest of the exhaust ports.  

 

 

Both the engine and the gas tank I have at my house to work on over the next while.  The tank is super clean on the outside but the inside needs some cleaning of debris and protection.

 

Reworking my cost benefit on the L16 vs swap with what I have now.  L16 gaskets and such are pretty cheap, but I would rather not spend money that will be wasted.  Im cheap but also not.