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[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Your work is very nice.  But turbo-ing an L motor is going waaaay down the rabbit hole. There are so many reasons why it's not a great idea. First reason being that you would have to spend a lot of time building the bottom end to be able to handle it. Forged pistons, ARP rod bolts at a minimum, if not Carrillo (or similar) rods, improved oiling. You'd basically have to race prep the block and crank to make it strong and durable. You'd also have to o-ring the head block and (this is the first time you will hear me recommend this) use ARP head studs. (I hate head studs...)

 

The cylinder head would obviously need some work, but by force feeding it, you could get probably away with stock ports and a mild cam.

 

Then there's the engine management. How much money do you want to spend on EFI? Or would you do a carbureted system? Blow-through has durability problems, and pull-through has tuning problems.

 

I say go for it, but be ware of the cost. It would certainly be a lot cooler to see the turbo L motor than anything newer in that engine bay.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Stoffregen Motorsports

[shlammed]

Yeah having had all of these turbo cars I know they are higher strung.   IF these engines were suitible for 200-250hp without getting into an engine build it could have been worthwhile.

I guess that means get the L16 going to drive when Im preparing for a Kswap.

[paradime]

Personally, I'm a fan of th unexpected under the hood, so the idea of a boosted EFI L series peaks my interest. Not to mention, it appears you have the skills to pull it off. If you're looking to make hp at a reasonable price go Kswap, but turboing an L is not as crazy as it may seem. For instance, the L18E was used in the JDM S11 Silvia mid 70s. It was an upgraded L18 with electronic fuel injection and produces 113 hp. If you could get your hands on one of those intakes with throttle body you'd be half way there externally speaking. 

 

Virtually any L-series oil pump including the high volume 280ZX turbo oil pump (part# 15010-S8000) will fit any L series. Also Nissan Motorsports high-pressure oil pump, (15010-A1110) but much harder to come by. There are threads in the 510 realm about opening the oil passages in the block.

 

Rebello Racing .com sells all the internals to build a stout bottom end that would hold up to 250+hp. Talk to Dave or Brian there and they will tell you everything you'd need. Really great guys.

 

 

[shlammed]

Yeah, being simple and making a reasonable power is the goal. 
 

120-150 isn’t worth going turbo. Ideally 200-300 range in a 2000lb car is good to stay fun without overpowering a street car. 

[paradime]

A naturally aspirated K will get you there, but not all together cheap, and fabbing up a transverse engine into a RWD car sounds like more trouble and expense than doing an SR swap. Desperately unoriginal and not much of a challenge but with all the easy bolt on aftermarket parts you'd need to get it done wouldn't that be goal accomplished? I can tell you from first hand experience that an SR in a 510 is a match made in heaven and more fun then what should be allowed on the street. 

[shlammed]

Does anybody have drawings for the L16 intake manifold flange or the exhaust manifold flange at the head?

 

 

I went through my parts inventory and have some injectors, 3bar map, ign1a coils, 38 or 44mm wastegate and a bunch of other related bits. I will grab a VW K03 turbo or something similar but use external gate to keep boost more controllable and grab a microsquirt ecu to keep it controlled and affordable. 
 

need to determine intake manifold. 

[paradime]

Can you pull it off the L16 manifolds you have? 

[shlammed]

Yes, next time I am at my cottage. 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Buy a gasket. That should get you close.

[datzenmike]

It would show the ports outline but not the extent of the flanges.

[paradime]

 

 

 

 

 

[shlammed]

Yes, the interaction of both is important on these engines with shared fasteners.

 

[shlammed]

Two questions:

 

-Has anyone tried to run a cam position sensor in place of the mechanical fuel pump on an L series engine?  This is one I can confirm when I see the car next but that wont be for a week or two.

-It appears the distributor is needed to drive the oil pump, is that right?   Is there a solution to removing the distributor and running a plug/plate to cover the opening?

[slowlearner]

3 minutes ago, shlammed said:

Two questions:

 

-Has anyone tried to run a cam position sensor in place of the mechanical fuel pump on an L series engine?  This is one I can confirm when I see the car next but that wont be for a week or two.

-It appears the distributor is needed to drive the oil pump, is that right?   Is there a solution to removing the distributor and running a plug/plate to cover the opening?

 

I've seen this on a few setups. You need to cut back the fuel pump cam so it's one tooth or make your own. 

[Crashtd420]

42 minutes ago, shlammed said:

Two questions:

 

-Has anyone tried to run a cam position sensor in place of the mechanical fuel pump on an L series engine?  This is one I can confirm when I see the car next but that wont be for a week or two.

-It appears the distributor is needed to drive the oil pump, is that right?   Is there a solution to removing the distributor and running a plug/plate to cover the opening?

Funny you say that.... I'm trying a science experiment with a spare L16 and gsxr throttle bodies, the stock setup uses a single pin trigger cam sensor.... I was wondering the same thing.... if I could either go through the fuel pump hole or possibly the front inspection cover.. 

 

As for the distributor it does not drive the oil pump, the crank drives both... I'm not sure if a plate is all that's needed or if the distributor prevents the drive spindle from moving up and down at all.. 

[slowlearner]

On 12/10/2022 at 4:27 AM, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Your work is very nice.  But turbo-ing an L motor is going waaaay down the rabbit hole. There are so many reasons why it's not a great idea. First reason being that you would have to spend a lot of time building the bottom end to be able to handle it. Forged pistons, ARP rod bolts at a minimum, if not Carrillo (or similar) rods, improved oiling. You'd basically have to race prep the block and crank to make it strong and durable. You'd also have to o-ring the head block and (this is the first time you will hear me recommend this) use ARP head studs. (I hate head studs...)

 

The cylinder head would obviously need some work, but by force feeding it, you could get probably away with stock ports and a mild cam.

 

Then there's the engine management. How much money do you want to spend on EFI? Or would you do a carbureted system? Blow-through has durability problems, and pull-through has tuning problems.

 

I say go for it, but be ware of the cost. It would certainly be a lot cooler to see the turbo L motor than anything newer in that engine bay.

 

Genuinely surprised to hear you say this. Nissan has a forged crank and decent rods from factory. Yes, if you want a million horsepower it'll need upgrades. However, I would have though it would be safe for 180hp (double the factory) and about 10psi. Most factory engines are as long as you intercool it and the tune is decent. 

[datzenmike]

There is a bushing just above the worm gear on the crankshaft that prevents the oil pump/distributor drive spindle from moving upward.

 

7 hours ago, slowlearner said:

 

I've seen this on a few setups. You need to cut back the fuel pump cam so it's one tooth or make your own. 

 

I assume this is the fuel pump eccentric.

 

 

19 minutes ago, slowlearner said:

 

Genuinely surprised to hear you say this. Nissan has a forged crank and decent rods from factory. Yes, if you want a million horsepower it'll need upgrades. However, I would have though it would be safe for 180hp (double the factory) and about 10psi. Most factory engines are as long as you intercool it and the tune is decent. 

 

Just imagine how much HP a turbo KA can make and then realize that it's done on the smaller of the two main bearings below. Yeah, the one on the left is from an L20B. Power can't kill them, over revving does. Yes to the upgrade in fasteners and high tech rods if revving this stupid high.

 

 

The L16/18 L0B rides of 5 main bearings uses HUGE rod bearings.

 

 

[shlammed]

I guess the general question would have been are the crank/rods/pistons up for a bit more power.  The other engines I would have turbocharged would have had forged crank and general understanding that they can handle 100% more power based on experience.

 

This is more of an unknown.  Kswap is still fully on the table but this thought would keep custom bits smaller.  Manifolds and wiring instead of manifolds, wiring, mounts, adaptation of engine/trans, mounts, oil pan......  There is no doubt that the K engine would be the most capable swap but it has its own challenges and being that I just got the car I would prefer to focus on brakes/suspension/repairs needed instead of going all in on an engine that takes any of my available time.  I have young kids and time is valuable.

 

 

Thanks for the info on the oil pump stuff.  Its semi clear right now but Im also conflicted.  There are suggestions that you can prime an oil pump through the distributor opening which to me reads as if the distributor drive is the connection from the crank to the oil pump.  So if I pull the distributor the distributor shaft with the gear drive wouldnt be there at all.  I cross posted that question on a facebook group and there isnt a clear direction from that either.... some say to shorten a distributor shaft and it will ride on some kind of bearing/bushing in the front cover.  I will dig a bit more into some Z forums I dont really frequent yet to see how people are doing it on their long engines.  Im likely over complicating it  🙂

 

Random thoughts so far for intake manifold are trying to source an L18efi manifold or maybe find one from a 280zx and sectioning it to work.  Obviously the L18 would be easy, 280zx may work and full custom manifold would be the most effort.  Finding the L18efi manifold seems like its not an easy task.

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by shlammed

[datzenmike]

 

The drive spindle for the oil pump and the distributor runs diagonally from top left (distributor) to bottom right. (oil pump) At the bottom of the picture is the support for the spindle that is installed from the bottom side.

 

To pre oil an L series the drive spindle is removed and a long rod with a flat blade like a screwdriver is inserted from the distributor end down into the oil pump and an electric drill used to spin it. I heated and pressed the gear off a spare spindle and used it and a drill to spin the  distributor shaft. A lot of bother. It's simpler to take the coil wire off and spin the engine with the starter for 15 seconds. When oil oozes out of the cam you're there. If fresh rebuild, all the bearings will be swimming in grease or assembly lube anyway.

 

Spinning just the oil pump does not lube all crankshaft bearings because the cross drilled crankshaft will almost certainly not be lined up with the holes in the main bearing shells. It only fills all the oil galleries.

 

 

[shlammed]

thanks!

 

So in your instance of pre-oiling you have to pull off the oil pump and install the gear free drive since it installs from the bottom and you can then drive it from the distributor opening?  yeah thats a lot of work and not one I feel like I need to do but understanding the mechanics when I havent torn into the engine yet is really my challenge.

 

When I head to the cottage next I may just bring the engine home with me  lol.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

19 hours ago, shlammed said:

Two questions:

 

-Has anyone tried to run a cam position sensor in place of the mechanical fuel pump on an L series engine?  This is one I can confirm when I see the car next but that wont be for a week or two.

-It appears the distributor is needed to drive the oil pump, is that right?   Is there a solution to removing the distributor and running a plug/plate to cover the opening?

Yeah, we were just discussing this in Crash's thread.

 

You can remove the distributor altogether and plug the hole with a freeze plug.

 

There is a HAL sensor trigger wheel that replaces the L distributor - https://www.onesixindustries.com/product/nissan-datsun-l-series-crank-angle-sensor

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

12 hours ago, slowlearner said:

 

Genuinely surprised to hear you say this. Nissan has a forged crank and decent rods from factory. Yes, if you want a million horsepower it'll need upgrades. However, I would have though it would be safe for 180hp (double the factory) and about 10psi. Most factory engines are as long as you intercool it and the tune is decent. 

Sure, the crank is tough, but the rods are not very strong. Stock cranks can crack under the stress too, and lightening them by knife edging the counterweights helps. Nitride, metal -lax, cryo all help with strength too. Oiling in the crank can be improved by chamfering the oil galleys with an eye shape.

 

180 hp is fine for stock rods, but any more than that and they should be replaced with something stronger.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

11 hours ago, datzenmike said:

There is a bushing just above the worm gear on the crankshaft that prevents the oil pump/distributor drive spindle from moving upward.

 

 

I assume this is the fuel pump eccentric.

 

 

 

Just imagine how much HP a turbo KA can make and then realize that it's done on the smaller of the two main bearings below. Yeah, the one on the left is from an L20B. Power can't kill them, over revving does. Yes to the upgrade in fasteners and high tech rods if revving this stupid high.

 

 

The L16/18 L0B rides of 5 main bearings uses HUGE rod bearings.

 

 

Three mods to ensure bearing life -

- enlarge the #2 and #4 main bearing oil galleys to 1/4"

- enlarge the hole in the bearing to match

- get two sets of bearings and use only the ones with oil grooves. Some bearings use a groove in the block-side bearing, but a smooth bearing in the cap-side. OEM bearings were full groove.

 

You can even widen the grooves in the bearings to allow more oiling. I made a jig with two main caps that I bolt together and chuck up in the lathe.

[shlammed]

1 hour ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Yeah, we were just discussing this in Crash's thread.

 

You can remove the distributor altogether and plug the hole with a freeze plug.

 

There is a HAL sensor trigger wheel that replaces the L distributor - https://www.onesixindustries.com/product/nissan-datsun-l-series-crank-angle-sensor

 

 

Thanks. That replacement hall cam sync is a nice piece but too pricey to justify for this.

 

Basically all of the internal engine work noted.... oring block, exotic engint treatments like cryo etc are not worth it.  Just send some power into the L16 and see how it goes I suppose.  180hp limits for rods gets pretty close to a more enjoyable drive.   Using a semi-modern turbo from an OEM may work pretty well with boost control through the ecu to the top ports of the external wastegate

[shlammed]

22 hours ago, Crashtd420 said:

Funny you say that.... I'm trying a science experiment with a spare L16 and gsxr throttle bodies, the stock setup uses a single pin trigger cam sensor.... I was wondering the same thing.... if I could either go through the fuel pump hole or possibly the front inspection cover.. 

 

As for the distributor it does not drive the oil pump, the crank drives both... I'm not sure if a plate is all that's needed or if the distributor prevents the drive spindle from moving up and down at all.. 

Looking more into the geometry the cam drive for fuel pump would be in the valve cover.  The easiest way to do this would be currently looks like drilling a press-fit pin into the back side of the cam and running the sensor through the valve cover at the firewall.