Water pump thread size

[Veraciousreasoning]

Hey all,

 

So bought a fancy new fan clutch/water pump system for my 720 and the bolt broke off in the water pump. Anyone know the thread size 

 

It's one of the longer ones so I don't even know how I am going to go about it. Pics if needed 

[datzenmike]

 

 

All bolts go through the water pump. The three longest ones on the alternator side go through the timing cover and screw into the block, the rest only into the timing cover. These three bolts are around where the water inlet and outlet from the pump join into the block. You don't want a leak there as it could get behind the timing cover and down into the oil pan. Timing cover will have to come off and with luck the bolt snapped above the threads and there is a nub to grip onto. 

 

Drain the coolant, remove radiator and water pump, and take fan belt off. Disconnect bottom radiator hose. Loosen crankshaft bolt, set engine to TDC, tap back side of crankshaft pulley forward till it slides off crankshaft. Unbolt oil pump and drop out along with the drive spindle, remove distributor. Power steering pump and tensioner? There are 2 bolts on the front bottom of head that go down into the timing cover and remove the oil pan bolts across the front and maybe down each side that go up into the timing cover and loosen a few down both sides so the pan can droop slightly. Remove all the timing cover bolts, don't forget the one that was behind the oil pump. I think I have everything. The timing cover is on two dowels but it should (with difficulty) pull straight forward and out. The bottom of the head gasket and the top of the oil pan gasket will resist this sliding out.

[datzenmike]

Ah, I see that this is an '80? There is a thermostat by pass tube connecting the thermostat and intake down across the front of the timing cover to the lower rad hose fitting on the timing cover. Up to you if you want to remove or leave on.

[Veraciousreasoning]

Wow that is a lot of work. Son of a bitch. Well I've been planning on cleaning all the gunk off my engine and painting it. Guess it's time 

[Veraciousreasoning]

59 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Ah, I see that this is an '80? There is a thermostat by pass tube connecting the thermostat and intake down across the front of the timing cover to the lower rad hose fitting on the timing cover. Up to you if you want to remove or leave on.

 

It also snapped off while I was removing it so it's def in the threads. Do you know what thread size so I can rethread it (hopefully I don't but just in case) 

 

Also can I do all that without ripping the engine out of the bay? 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Veraciousreasoning

[datzenmike]

You'll need to remove the old broken bolt first with a dill and an easy out. Don't know the size, take one of the other bolts in with you for the tap.

 

Yes you can do this with the engine in.

 

While the timing cover is off I would replace the front crankshaft seal.

 

 

 

 

It depends on risk management. One broken bolt might not matter with all the others around it providing the clamping force. As you can see there is an L shaped channel that allows any leakage to escape. Maybe just ignore and keep an eye open for any leakage in the future.

[Duncan]

Or, you could try a left hand set of drill bits.  I bought a set a few years ago, and have had much better success with them than using easy-outs.  I start with a very small size, then increase in small increments.  The bolt will normally come out cleanly after a few larger bits.

 

I also like Mike's advise on seeing if it leaks and possibly leaving it alone.  I took my timing cover off on a 510 and tried the gasket kit for the front part of the pan, and it never did seal right after that.

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The two thread sizes on an L water pump are 6x1.0 and 8x1.25. Lengths obviously vary.

 

I just gave away a ton of NOS Datsun hardware, still in the bags. Among the stuff I had was a bunch of OEM water pump/timing cover bolts.

[Veraciousreasoning]

8 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

The two thread sizes on an L water pump are 6x1.0 and 8x1.25. Lengths obviously vary.

 

I just gave away a ton of NOS Datsun hardware, still in the bags. Among the stuff I had was a bunch of OEM water pump/timing cover bolts.

Well shit man lol

[Veraciousreasoning]

9 hours ago, datzenmike said:

You'll need to remove the old broken bolt first with a dill and an easy out. Don't know the size, take one of the other bolts in with you for the tap.

 

Yes you can do this with the engine in.

 

While the timing cover is off I would replace the front crankshaft seal.

 

 

 

 

It depends on risk management. One broken bolt might not matter with all the others around it providing the clamping force. As you can see there is an L shaped channel that allows any leakage to escape. Maybe just ignore and keep an eye open for any leakage in the future.

I tried already and had a massive Leak. If I can do it with the engine in that's fine. I really wanted to get all the gunk and grime off my engine and a bunch of parts that I have to take off needed replacing anyway.  I just wanted to wait till I had a garage but guess I'm buying a portable car port. 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Pressure wash the motor before you take it apart. Then, if it's not clean enough, finish cleaning it with solvent (or gasoline) and a brush after it has been taken apart. There are obvious hazards using gasoline as a cleaner, but it really works the best.

[Veraciousreasoning]

Hey sorry for the delay life really got busy. 

 

Do i need to take head gasket off as well? I have free time this weekend (finally) and im gonna do this. 

 

Is there anyway i can just drill into it and set new threads without doing all that work? 

[datzenmike]

Put the new pump on with a new gasket. Drive it and see if it leaks. Cost is a pump gasket if this does not work.

[Veraciousreasoning]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Put the new pump on with a new gasket. Drive it and see if it leaks. Cost is a pump gasket if this does not work.

 

When i broke the bolt it had a new pump and gasket. The bolt that broke was the one that is built in the water pump. 

 

 

[datzenmike]

Fire it up. Does it leak water? If not drive away.

 

Tightening torque is 3-3.6 ft lbs. Those bolts are narrow and easy to over tighten.

[Veraciousreasoning]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Fire it up. Does it leak water? If not drive away.

 

Tightening torque is 3-3.6 ft lbs. Those bolts are narrow and easy to over tighten.

 

Yeah it def leaks. When i xhanged it and broke the bolt i turned it over to see if it would leak and it 100% does

 

 

[butter fingers]

choke down on your wrench /socket if you have the tendancy to strip or break bolts like me , lol

[Veraciousreasoning]

Ok so quick overview so i have everything

 

Disconnect radiator hoses

Remove radiator

Take belts off that are in the way

Loosen crankshaft

Make sure valves are tdc

Tap until it is removed

Remove bolts and oil pump

Remove distrubetor

Tap timing cover to slowly slide out

Remove broken bolt

Clean everything 

Put back together

Dont break another bolt 

[datzenmike]

Doesn't have to be at TDC as long as you mark the spindle position so it goes back in the same position.

 

Disconnect battery. Trust me.

 

Drain coolant remove bottom rad hose from timing cover and top hose from thermostat housing. Radiators are fragile and twisting and pulling on the hoses to get them off can bugger them. If replacing them, slit with a knife and peel off. Remove fan shroud and then the radiator with hoses attached.

 

Remove alternator adjusting strap, loosen alternator and swing out of way, and remove belt and any other belts (AC/PS)

 

Remove water pump/fan for more room to work on the timing cover.

 

Place in 5th and have someone hold the brake while you snap loose the crankshaft bolt. (27mm?) 90-120 ft lbs so it's ON there. Tap the pulley forward with heavy socket or use puller. I've never used a puller. It always works itself forward and off. Watch for woodruf keys on crankshaft snout and collect them if they fall out.

 

Remove the two 10mm bolts that retain the distributor to the top of the timing cover. Ignition timing will not be affected by this. Position out of the way.

 

Loosen and remove the 4 oil pump bolts and drop the oil pump from the timing cover. The drive spindle will almost certainly drop out with it so be prepared. Have rags handy as several tablespoons of oil will dribble. The oil pump gasket is paper thin and may stick to pump or timing cover. If not torn it can be reused.

 

Remove the oil pan bolts across the front that secure into the timing cover and loosen several down each side so the gasket is not tightly gripped.

 

Remove the two 10mm bolts from the top side of the head that secure down into the top of the timing cover.

 

Remove all the bolts securing the timing cover to the engine block. It's on two small dowels so cover must pull off in the forward direction.

 

Timing cover kit may also include a front crankshaft seal. If not, now is the time to replace it while the cover is off. Pry out with screwdriver and carefully hammer new one in from the front with hammer while covering seal with block of wood. Grease the seal lips so it doesn't start up dry.

 

 

Pan gasket may tear sliding the cover out. It helps if you loosen several pan bolts down the sides the pan can be pried downward slightly. Clean thoroughly with brake cleaner and smear a judicious amount of RTV on both sides as you install the timing cover.  The head gasket area only seals in fumes and oil spray so again a small smear of RTV should work.

 

Put a dab of RTV in the two top corners where the block, timing cover and head meet and the two bottom corners where the block, timing cover and oil pan meet. The timing cover and the water pump gaskets should be put on dry it does not need any sealer or RTV. Sealing a gasket is the epitome of redundancy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Removing the pan may not be super easy, due to the crossmember, but the risk of creating a leak from the pan is too great. I'd remove the pan too.

 

If you're not removing the head, be sure to smear a good bead of grey or black RTV not only on the top of the front cover, but also on the underside of the head gasket where it meets the cover. If the gasket is loose on the head side, squirt some RTV in there as well.

 

For the remaining gaskets, I use gasgacinch. It's not really a gasket maker, just there to hold things in place, and when it dries, you can't hardly tell that it's there.

[banzai510(hainz)]

just maybe slightly lower the oil pan and find a cork oil pan gasket and splice it in at the corners if it tears when you slide the timing cover off. They used to have a kit just for this.Victor Renz made

 

always use antiseize on those water pump bolts/thorosstae bolts. Intake ec.......

Edited October 3, 2022 by banzai510(hainz)

[butter fingers]

well this is when i tell everyone about the best tool in my toolbox . it is not  a tool at all ! it is called  "Tef-Gel" it is my favorite antiseize  product but has so many other uses. i keep finding new ways to use this magic lube . originally i bought it to lather on stainless steel rivets before i installed them in my aluminum  sailboat mast !  get some and thank me later , it does not wash off either .Butter Fingers 

[Veraciousreasoning]

Im doing it tomorrow. Wish me luck...im gonna need it 

[Veraciousreasoning]

On 10/3/2022 at 11:47 AM, banzai510(hainz) said:

just maybe slightly lower the oil pan and find a cork oil pan gasket and splice it in at the corners if it tears when you slide the timing cover off. They used to have a kit just for this.Victor Renz made

 

always use antiseize on those water pump bolts/thorosstae bolts. Intake ec.......

So in order for me do that the manual says i have to get the diffentcial out of the way. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Veraciousreasoning

[datzenmike]

diffentcial.... I don't know this word.