Front strut brace

[Payco]

Hi Guys. Any links to a source to supply a front strut brace for a 510.?

 

Payco 

[datzenmike]

Spend the money on something more deserving. Strut towers don't move around that much that a brace will make a noticeable difference to handling. 

[Payco]

Thanks but do you or anyone have any links or recommendations please ?. 

[fiveoneO]

Techno Toy Tuning sells a couple.

[Payco]

Thankyou 

[iceman510]

I have a Cusco, but purchased many years ago and not sure if it is still available.

 

Oh, looks like T3 sells a Cusco.

 

https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/510/cusco-front-strut-brace-datsun-510-and-nissan-bluebird-sss

 

 

[Payco]

Thanks. Says not available but I can see they are available elsewhere. Do you have any photos of it fitted ?. Thankyou.

Martin 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Payco

[iceman510]

No, it's still in the box.  😔

[JK510]

Hi Martin,

 

I bought a Cusco one from RHD Japan. I wasn't a big fan of the blue ends so had a bodyshop paint them for me.

 

https://www.rhdjapan.com/cusco-strut-bar-type-as-front-p510.html

 

JK

 

 

[Payco]

Thanks Jonathan 

[RandyWanger]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:55 PM, JK510 said:

Hi Martin,

 

I bought a Cusco one from RHD Japan. I wasn't a big fan of the blue ends so had a bodyshop paint them for me.

 

https://www.rhdjapan.com/cusco-strut-bar-type-as-front-p510.html

 

JK

 

 

 

Just ordered one 👍

[paradime]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:54 AM, datzenmike said:

Spend the money on something more deserving. Strut towers don't move around that much that a brace will make a noticeable difference to handling. 

 

Speaking to Mike's valid recommendation, there's been much debate within the vintage B Sedan racing community on whether a 2 point strut brace on a 510 is anything more than a "purely esthetic choice". To clarify, I'm not judging or advocating either way. In fact, I had a Cusco on my 510 for a time, but was convinced (by Troy Ermish) that all it did was make it a bit harder to take the valve cover off. 

 

If this is an esthetic choice, I say cheers and on with it. But if you're hoping it will improve your 510's handling, consider:

 

* The The 510's full unibody construction, and the proximity of the torsionally solid firewall to the strut towers holds the struts very rigid

 

* The lower frame rails is where lateral G-force from cornering is exerted on the chassis. With no fixed leverage point at the top, the only function a 2 point strut brace could have at the top is to keep the towers from bending closer or further apart.

 

* Assuming vertical chassis distortion were even possible, other than eliminating a .001 degree change in camber, I don't see how this would improve the 510's handling.

 

So where did this strut brace thing come from then? Here's the story I heard.

During TransAm racing in the 60s privateers saw Ford/Shelby added 3 point strut braces to the Mustang GTs and thought it was some kind of trick handling thing. Other teams started copying and it became one of those iconic symbols of early SCCA racing (Important to note that neither BRE or Bob Sharp braced their 510s). The real reason for the brace was kept under raps, but Carrel later revealed in an interview that torque from the larger high performance engines were pretzeling the POS Mustang semi unibody chassis, and the brace was added to keep it from falling apart. 

 

My$.02 for what it's worth.

Edited March 2, 2022 by paradime

[datzenmike]

You also have the rad support across the front. Certainly if the towers were moving towards each other the hood would show signs of being pinched.

 

Catch cans, oil filter re-location adapters, engine 'torque straps', hood pins and rear wings are five more basically worthless ad-ons to a street car.

[iceman510]

To Paradime's comments, many B-sedan vintage cars have cage bracing that ties in the towers, so it is likely superfluous in those conditions.  Could it improve stiffness/handling on a street car?  Maybe not measurably.

 

Consider though that some OE manufacturers have them installed in more modern cars.  This in vehicles were the design trend has been to move the cowl of the vehicles forward and closer to the struts, improving general rigidity.  Maybe they know they have crappy unibody design like the Mustangs of old...

 

Not advocating or rejecting, just some thoughts on the subject. 

[paradime]

I hear you Iceman. It's important to recognize the difference between a 2 vs 3 point strut brace, and the proximity of the strut towers to the firewall. The angle OE brace as seen on more modern cars ties the strut towers to the top of the firewall.

 

 cars like the Mustang have an extended front end to accommodate an inline 6, a semi-unibody with separate support frame rails and torque boxes added, and strut towers 16-18" from the firewall. That shit was coming apart under the strain of the GT race engine. Having a roll cage in a race car like that wouldn't help unless it were tied to the strut tower, and back in the day they weren't. Angle strut braces were common in convertible cars back then, but the addition of a horizontal cross brace was introduced in the GT Mustangs. 

 

On the other hand, the 510's have full unibody construction (shell and frame in one) and strut towers 5-6" from the firewall. It was an inexpensive, light, and very rigid platform. Same reason why the Austin Mini was so successful. Still shocks me it took decades for the concept of lighter is better to catch on with American auto manufacturers.

 

This is what the Ford/Shelby brace looked like below. Note the X-brace js attached to the body seam not the towers.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by paradime

[datzenmike]

Car manufacturers just give people what they want... eventually. In the '60s muscle car owners complained about 'idiot lights' like no information how the oil pressure was just a red light to let you know it was too late. Some had red lights for over heating or no charging. Everyone wanted gauges. So eventually they put gauges in..... but no numbers. Geez. If it's a fad they will try to market it. My '70 Dart had a tach (though it read high) temp and oil pressure but no numbers. At least a gauge you get used to a certsain range and when it does something different you know something is up. Rear wings and spoilers were added to some cars but they did nothing but look good.

[paradime]

Nissan concept prototype rerelease of the ALL NEW 2023 510 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by paradime

[Payco]

Thanks for all the feedback and opinions, it’s always well received . I’m doing it more for looks than function. 

[n3cr0mantlc]

I have not checked my Datsun, but on my Volvo 850 wagon if I remove the brace on the ground and jack up the car and try and reinstall it before setting the car back down I cannot re install the bar.  It does move quite a bit.  The strut towers on an 850 are quite close to the firewall and I never thought it made a difference until I discover this.  Mine was originally designed for looks, but it may actually do something by stiffening the chassis.

 

[datzenmike]

It might move, but rarely off a race track, does anyone push a car so hard that it does. Of those who might, how many have the ability to appreciate the difference? At the end of the day it's not worth the bother thinking about.

[n3cr0mantlc]

I would agree, track and street are two different animals. 

[Jesse C.]

If you really want one, my friend makes and sells them here. 

 

https://www.garagetheory.net/

 

[paradime]

On 3/4/2022 at 12:39 PM, n3cr0mantlc said:

I have not checked my Datsun, but on my Volvo 850 wagon if I remove the brace on the ground and jack up the car and try and reinstall it before setting the car back down I cannot re install the bar.  It does move quite a bit.  The strut towers on an 850 are quite close to the firewall and I never thought it made a difference until I discover this.  Mine was originally designed for looks, but it may actually do something by stiffening the chassis.

 

 

Although I'm curious what'd happen jack'n up 2,100lb 510 sedan in question, I don't think its an apples to apples comparison here. Your T5 Volvo Wagon is 3,900lb, its traverse mounted 5 cylinder engine and auto trans sit completely forward of the front axles, it doesn't even have a solid front X-member, and the delta-link rear axle is pushed 3 full pillars back with almost a ft longer wheel base than the 510's. Hell if it didn't flex it'd be a F'n miracle. As a father of 2 in the Bay Area, back in the day my wife and I owned a 70 series, until it's engine siezed on the Bay Bridge. Then our AWD V60 Cross Country caught fire on the Bay Bridge. Just Swedish dumb luck, you decide.

 

Again, if it's an esthetic choice, I say cheers and on with it. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by paradime

[Tedman]

I know I can feel the difference driving down a bumpy road without my strut spreader bar. The front suspension feels more compliant. So they can have a noticeable effect, in my opinion.  I think mostly in braking, and especially if there's bumps in the road.  The loads go up through the springs to the strut tops, and under hard braking most of the car's weight transfers to the front. If the chassis is not stiff enough, the strut towers can deflect inwards and that could affect steering stability. Likewise, in a hard turn, most of the weight on the car's front axle is on the outer strut tower. The spreader bar would tend to resist the outer strut tower deflection. Likely none of this matters if braking/cornering at less than 8/10ths, so yeah, pretty much race track only worries.

 

I would imagine that stitch welding the seams in the engine bay is probably more effective at stiffening the chassis than adding a bolt on strut spreader bar. As mentioned above, BRE stitch welded their chassis and never ran strut bars in their 510s. My anecdotal evidence related above was in a 2 door 510 with 200k+ hard miles on the unibody with no stitch welding. I have another 2 door 510 with <100k miles on the unibody and a stitch welded engine bay, so I performed a little test on it by rolling one front wheel up on a 3" ramp, and measuring the distance between the strut towers with, and without the strut bar. The difference was < 1/16". This is just a static test with no braking/cornering loads. I suspect there's more deflection in over-the-road conditions. Perhaps this weekend I'll get my 200k+ mile car out and perform the same test. I expect to see more deflection on that car. 

[Dave 240Z]

Dec. of 2021, I did my first Autocross. I loved it, the car loved it and handled great. But I thought it was a real strain on a 50 year old car. I bought a front strut brace from a real race car. I just signed up for another Autocross so I made a rear strut brace from a section of stainless tubing. I haven’t done it enough to tell the difference but I’m sure it will be less strain on the car.