Rack & Pinion steering upgrade..?

[JK510]

Apologies if this is something that has been covered before, but whilst chatting with the guy who'll be restoring my car later this year we where talking about various modern upgrades and improvements that we might want to incorporate into the build and one of them was an upgrade to the steering.

 

Is there a common upgrade that folks have used from more modern cars to convert to rack and pinion steering...perhaps Mazda MX5 or Toyota MR2...or even something non Japanese,Ford, maybe.... 🤐🤯

 

I'm not particularly bothered about power steering either, happy without.

 

Whats been done and whats possible...thanks.

 

JK

Edited February 5, 2022 by JK510

[thisismatt]

@Icehouse makes (or is involved with) these:

 

https://www.jbcoachwerks.com/shop/version-3-rack-and-pinion-conversion-front-crossmember

[fiveoneO]

I've used an MR2 rack in the past. Its about an inch too wide and needs to be narrowed. Any machine shop should be able to handle that. 

[Icehouse]

On 2/5/2022 at 6:18 AM, thisismatt said:

@Icehouse makes (or is involved with) these:

 

https://www.jbcoachwerks.com/shop/version-3-rack-and-pinion-conversion-front-crossmember

 

This dude is right!  We make a kit for use with the Ford escort steering rack which is the same width as the MR2 rack but you can get it new for super cheap.   

 

On 2/6/2022 at 8:56 AM, fiveoneO said:

I've used an MR2 rack in the past. Its about an inch too wide and needs to be narrowed. Any machine shop should be able to handle that. 

 

It's the perfect width.   The LCA pivots just need a slight adjustment.  a narrower rack won't fit under most engines.  the steering shaft would hit the block.  Yes you could just narrow the steering shaft but then you loose steering angle which isn't good.  

[JK510]

11 hours ago, Icehouse said:

 

This dude is right!  We make a kit for use with the Ford escort steering rack which is the same width as the MR2 rack but you can get it new for super cheap.   

 

 

It's the perfect width.   The LCA pivots just need a slight adjustment.  a narrower rack won't fit under most engines.  the steering shaft would hit the block.  Yes you could just narrow the steering shaft but then you loose steering angle which isn't good.  

This all sounds like good news....my car is scheduled for resto to start in April, so I'll chat with the workshop. What would be the lead time on a RHD kit for delivery to the UK?

 

Thanks,

 

JK.

 

PS I'll message you @Icehouse Thanks.

Edited February 8, 2022 by JK510

[yenpit]

Our USA spec Ford Escort is COMPLETELY different than your UK spec Escort (yours is cool 😎), thus I bet the UK spec Escort steering rack is different........??  I'm not aware that our USA spec Escort was ever available in a RHD country................??

[paradime]

If you're doing a modern restoration on an PR510, IMO R&P is the best money you can spend on your build. You want to consider, there are lots of conversion methods out there with different pros, cons, and cost. I have a James Boswell Coachwerks gen 1 Rack & Pinion kit with a completely stock MR2 rack in my 510. What sets the JBC kit apart is they've completely redesigned and improved the 510's steering geometry. I'm pretty sure the custom crossmember and steering arms they make have Voodoo magic in them. Lowering the 510's Mcpherson Strut suspension requires serious modification to avoid bump steer. Even then you have to add +5-7 degres of caster for high speed stability which makes for a heavy steering at low speed.

 

Using JBC's setup I'm nearly 3" lower than stock and only +2 degrees caster. Even with sticky 7.5" wide 140 compound race tires in front the steering is quick, light, and very stable cornering at high or low speed. It's suitable for SR, KA engine swops, and as you already know the new gen 3 kit can be made RHD. If you go that way I'd have JBC ship it with the Escort rack installed. I'm no shipping expert, but I've heard horror stories of OEM US spec parts getting held up in UK customs. I believe you can avoid that if it's shipped as part of a custom after market kit.

 

Best of luck on your build.

Edited March 9, 2022 by paradime

[yenpit]

20 hours ago, paradime said:

If you're doing a modern restoration on an PR510, IMO R&P is the best money you can spend on your build. You want to consider, there are lots of conversion methods out there with different pros, cons, and cost. I have a Jeff Boswell Coachwerks gen 1 Rack & Pinion kit with a completely stock MR2 rack in my 510. What sets the JBC kit apart is they've completely redesigned and improved the 510's steering geometry. I'm pretty sure the custom crossmember and steering arms they make have Voodoo magic in them. Lowering the 510's Mcpherson Strut suspension requires serious modification to avoid bump steer. Even then you have to add +5-7 degres of caster for high speed stability which makes for a heavy steering at low speed.

 

Using JBC's setup I'm nearly 3" lower than stock and only +2 degrees caster. Even with sticky 7.5" wide 140 compound race tires in front the steering is quick, light, and very stable cornering at high or low speed. It's suitable for SR, KA engine swops, and as you already know the new gen 3 kit can be made RHD. If you go that way I'd have JBC ship it with the Escort rack installed. I'm no shipping expert, but I've heard horror stories of OEM US spec parts getting held up in UK customs. I believe you can avoid that if it's shipped as part of a custom after market kit.

 

Best of luck on your build.

 

Do they simply "flip" the USA spec rack?  I have seen that in some other British car applications! 👍

[paradime]

1 hour ago, yenpit said:

 

Do they simply "flip" the USA spec rack?  I have seen that in some other British car applications! 👍

 

On 2/5/2022 at 6:18 AM, thisismatt said:

@Icehouse makes (or is involved with) these:

 

https://www.jbcoachwerks.com/shop/version-3-rack-and-pinion-conversion-front-crossmember

 

 

I did my "gen 1 Rack & Pinion kit with a completely stock MR2 rack" 4 or 5 years ago. I'll bet if you do a little research on the above link you'll find your answer though.

[Duke]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:53 PM, yenpit said:

 

Do they simply "flip" the USA spec rack?  I have seen that in some other British car applications! 👍

 

I also used the same Ford Escort steering rack in my R&P conversion that JBC uses.  The Escort in question is from a MKII European Ford Escort (like previously stated, much cooler than the what we got here in the states: Examples).  In the stock application, the rack is "front steer" in that it is positioned in front of the front wheels and steers them accordingly.  For use in our cars, the rack is positioned behind the front wheels.  So that the rack pushes the wheels in the correct direction when the steering wheel is turned, the rack must be flipped upside down.  This means that for use on a LHD Datsun 510, you need to use a RHD MKII Escort rack.

 

So for the OP's application (RHD Datsun 510), he will need to use a LHD Escort steering rack "flipped".  Luckily, there is awesome aftermarket support for Escorts across the pond, so finding a new rack in the ratio that is desired is pretty simple. 

[JK510]

2 hours ago, Duke said:

 

I also used the same Ford Escort steering rack in my R&P conversion that JBC uses.  The Escort in question is from a MKII European Ford Escort (like previously stated, much cooler than the what we got here in the states: Examples).  In the stock application, the rack is "front steer" in that it is positioned in front of the front wheels and steers them accordingly.  For use in our cars, the rack is positioned behind the front wheels.  So that the rack pushes the wheels in the correct direction when the steering wheel is turned, the rack must be flipped upside down.  This means that for use on a LHD Datsun 510, you need to use a RHD MKII Escort rack.

 

So for the OP's application (RHD Datsun 510), he will need to use a LHD Escort steering rack "flipped".  Luckily, there is awesome aftermarket support for Escorts across the pond, so finding a new rack in the ratio that is desired is pretty simple. 

Thanks for the clarification on the type of Escort being discussed. Now I know that 'our' Escort rack is an option I'll look into this a bit more. There is definitely an option to buy a LHD rack here in the UK.

 

https://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=900_1332&products_id=10620

 

JK