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cheap lowering


CEAZERKHAN

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been looking online on a relatively cheap lowering methods for my B210. i remember hearing that 1200 front shock absorbers are an easy way, something about trimming the strut hole and they fit right in. then the rear I've hear is just a lowering block or two. end plan is to fit a set of Konig Rewinds

 

 

just looking for some more expert advise.🙂

 

Im dumb and cant figure out how to insert a pic but it seems just copy and paste works? idk saw this pic and i fell in love with it.

file:///media/fuse/drivefs-3b94a27c1f281da0005c1708f0aedd58/root/PB060172.jpg

 

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You can lower the front and make it adjustable for about $20 and using a few wrenches and a hacksaw. The below is slightly abbreviated but basically all there is to it...

 

The 'shock' or damper is built into the McPherson strut and there is no advantage to swapping a strut unless perhaps a 280zx strut which is already an inch shorter. The big gain with zx struts are the massive calipers and large vented rotor up grade. However the down side is a tight fit on the 13" B-210 rims. Strictly speaking you can get your lowering just using your B-210 struts. Keep in mind that this is not unlimited lowering, but safe up to 2 or 2.5" if you follow the NOTE* at the bottom.  (you should anyway if wanting improved ride and handling).....

 

 

 

If just looking for a couple of inches you can slice the bottom spring perches off the strut tube with a hack saw or angle grinder. Grind the weld down smooth. Use 2" split collars to support and allow the replaced, but free to move perches and spring, to slide down to the height you want and secure them.

 

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Above 2" split collars about $20

 

 

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I used a jack to lift and compress the stock spring...

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Slide the split collar up and tighten in place to hold the spring perch in it's new location.

 

 

NOTE*

 

Lowering this way does run the slight risk of bottoming the strut out on a large bump as there is reduced strut travel and less road clearance now, so it should only be up to 2 to 2.5 inches. There are two things that can mitigate this....

 

1/ You can use a stiffer spring which is harder to compress. You can even trim your stock spring to increase the spring rate but don't just cut them. There is some small math to calculate the new spring rate and how much to cut. Once cut you can't go back so do it right the first time. The 510 and the 710 are 100 pounds per inch spring rate, I imagine the B-210 is similar. I increased my 710 to 150 though most prefer 200 on their 510s. Start low and work your way up in stiffness. Consider that you will need to stiffen the rears to more or less match the fronts.

 

2/ If the struts have to original oil bath 'dampers' inside, you can dismantle, empty and replace the thin watery hydraulic oil with thicker 20w viscosity motorcycle shock oil to firm them up to resist compression and rebound and compliment the new spring rate. Thicker viscosity is harder to push through the valves so the damper is much firmer. I used Bell Ray motorcycle fork oil @ $17 a liter. Enough to fill 3 struts. Rather than replace the dampers with generic cartridges made for some other car you get to keep the original compression and rebound ratios of the originals. Just much firmer.

 

 

 

Split collars were $25 Canadian and the shock oil was $17 for a liter, enough for 3 struts. I did this on both my 710s and it was under $50  to lower and be adjustable plus the firmer shocks. Easily done in a day with hand tools and no welding. Split collars support 5,000 pounds each enough for more than two 510s!!! I've accidentally gone airborne over RR tracks and no bottoming. (I don't recommend this)  

 

One thing is for sure, the stock springs and dampers are always a bit on the soft side for general comfort and most people who drive enjoy driving a 'firmer feel' car.

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 10/20/2021 at 12:57 PM, datzenmike said:

Lowering this way does run the slight risk of bottoming the strut out on a large bump as there is reduced strut travel and less road clearance now, so it should only be up

to 2 to 2.5 inches. There are two things that can mitigate this....

 

B210 struts will bottom out if you go more than 1" down. The housings are too long and need to be shortened.

 

1. The easiest way is to swap to 280ZX struts, getting you bigger brakes at the same time, and gets you much shorter struts.

 

2. If you can't do that, almost everything on the front of a B210 is the same as a 510. Looks for stuff made for 510s and it will work.

 

Rear is just blocks, as you said. 

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Pretty sure the B210 springs/perches are narrower than the 280zx. I cut the perches off my B210, shortened the spring 1.5 coils and used collars on my 280zx struts. I dont remember if this is a requirement but I believe it was, probably as mentioned in the thread I found here over 5 years ago. 

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On 10/20/2021 at 12:09 PM, CEAZERKHAN said:

end plan is to fit a set of Konig Rewinds

 

Are you planning on 14s or 15s? 

 

The 14s require a fair bit of mods if you want them tucked and not rubbing...

 

428bf4993c962f84b96edc8626686ade.jpg

 

 

The 15s fit a little better (different wheel, but same size/offset as 15" Rewinds)...

 

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Edited by datsunfreak
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4 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

 

Are you planning on 14s or 15s? 

 

The 14s require a fair bit of mods if you want them tucked and not rubbing...

 

428bf4993c962f84b96edc8626686ade.jpg

 

 

The 15s fit a little better (different wheel, but same size/offset as 15" Rewinds)...

 

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well im not sure, in the end i want to end up with a look like this pic, so i thought 14s with a low profile tire would fit good with just a little modding, im guessing it would fit better with low profile tires and 14s? 

PB060172.jpg

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1 hour ago, CEAZERKHAN said:

well im not sure, in the end i want to end up with a look like this pic, so i thought 14s with a low profile tire would fit good with just a little modding, im guessing it would fit better with low profile tires and 14s? 

 

 

That car has 15s on it. The problem is that the 15x7 Rewind is a 0 offset, but the 14x7 is a -9 offset. So the 14s stick out more, and you need the 280ZX struts to get them inside the fenders.

 

My car had 280ZX struts, 14x7 Rewinds with 185/60-14 tires, and the fenders rolled/pulled. 

Edited by datsunfreak
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1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Rim size (other than tire availability) has not much to do with lowering limitations.

 

It does when it comes to tire availability, though. For example, you can find more affordable options for sub 22" tall 14s than you can 15s. Mathematically you are right, but if you can't actually buy that size tire...

 

For example, last I checked you can easily/affordably get a 185/50-14. You cannot get a 15" tire that short easily/affordably. I know, I looked for a long time...  😄

 

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Yep, datsunfreak hit the nail on the head, you have to choose wheel size on these cars based on the tires you need/want and their availability. 14" tires give poor choices and getting worse as less and less manufacturers make them each year. 15's has the best selection for multiple types of tires in a small diameter.

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On 10/20/2021 at 12:09 PM, CEAZERKHAN said:

end plan is to fit a set of Konig Rewinds

 

On 11/30/2021 at 12:20 PM, CEAZERKHAN said:

i thought 14s with a low profile tire would fit good with just a little modding, im guessing it would fit better with low profile tires and 14s? 

 

FYI, it looks like the 14x7 Rewind is no longer being made, so if you see a set it might be wise to snap them up even if you aren't 100% sure that's what you want. They are still making them in 15x7 and 16x7, though. 

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  • 9 months later...

I have a '75 B210 Coupe with 280ZX struts up front. She came with 15x7 +0 Enkei Compe wheels. I've been looking around and I have my eyes on a set of 165/50's

How do you think that'll go in the lowering department? The rear's just lowering blocks because Coupe rear suspension XD, but I'm not sure how the front will go.

The current tires are getting old and are probably the largest tires you could fit on there, like 205's or something.

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5 hours ago, ToastyBass said:

I have a '75 B210 Coupe with 280ZX struts up front. She came with 15x7 +0 Enkei Compe wheels. I've been looking around and I have my eyes on a set of 165/50's

How do you think that'll go in the lowering department? The rear's just lowering blocks because Coupe rear suspension XD, but I'm not sure how the front will go.

The current tires are getting old and are probably the largest tires you could fit on there, like 205's or something.

 

IMO, the best size for that would probably be a 185/55-15 (cheap and easy to get, moderate low), or a 175/50-15 (cheap, for super slam). How low is it now? 165s would be a pretty big stretch on a 15x7, but if that's the look you are going for...

 

Also, that 165/50-15 is about 1.5" shorter than the stock tire. Speedo will be way off and/or turning more RPMs on the highway. The 185/55-15 is the same diameter as the stock tire. 

 

 

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Thank you kindly, I think 175 width would be the smarter choice, less chance of bottoming something with that tiny bit of height. I only just recently found a perfect length speedo cable, and I'm ecstatic about it working once more. I wouldn't mind it being more accurate. XD

 

Current ride height looks unchanged in the rear, just bigger-than-stock wheels to fill it.

Previous owner said he was rubbing if it was lowered at all up front, so I'm not 100% sure if I'll need to roll the fenders or not.

The rear should be fine, it looks like I'll have plenty of clearance.

 

Goal is 2" drop all around to start via blocks and coils, no staggered anything, and just see how it feels. I know the tires will drop it a little bit lower, so I think this'll just be trial and error to start. I'd like all this to happen before the end of the month, there's a JDM classic cruise going on that I don't wanna miss!

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If your new tire is 2 inch shorter diameter, your car will drop only 1". It's always 1/2 the difference in diameter. 15X7 doesn't provide any information on what you have to know the diameter or height. You need that to know this, to know what way to go with new tires. Keeping them stock diameter will keep your odometer/speedometer accurate... just go wider. Smaller than stock diameter will read higher speed than you are going, larger will read slower than actual speed. Changing diameter away from stock will also affect performance by altering the overall gear ratio. 

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Vey true, but the poor little A14 that's in it right now was at 125psi on compression (factory rating 175psi), albeit a consistent 125. Truth be told, I'm not sure what ratio I'd be going for. Like I said, I'm working on getting a KA24DE, 5-speed, and new rear axle for this little 2,000lbs Coupe, and I do love me some Bosozoku styling. Long term, this thing may become a track car with this swap, but I have no clue what F/D ratio I should go for.

 

Speaking on that, anyone know the axle width difference between an H155 axle ass'y and that of a D21? Otherwise, I'll be paying $3k for a new BW78 axle+diff made for an R31 Skyline

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You have 3.889 in your '75. KA has over 70% more displacement with 2 Xs the power and torque so it can turn lower ratio for mileage like a 3.545 or even 3.361.  

 

There is only one rear axle really for a KA and that is an H-190. The '82-'83 S110 200sx or the '84 S12 200sx are H-190, comparable width. They are all 4 link and coil spring, but a smart fella should be able to cut that shit off and weld on some leaf spring perches. The S110 was 3.545 and 3.70 for automatic, the S12 was 3.70 and 3.889 for the automatic. '94 and up Hardbody 2wd KA24E trucks were 3.545. You want lower? The Maxima wagon automatic was 3.364 and the '84-'86 Z20 engine 720 truck also had this ratio.

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3 hours ago, ToastyBass said:

Vey true, but the poor little A14 that's in it right now was at 125psi on compression (factory rating 175psi), albeit a consistent 125. Truth be told, I'm not sure what ratio I'd be going for. Like I said, I'm working on getting a KA24DE, 5-speed, and new rear axle for this little 2,000lbs Coupe, and I do love me some Bosozoku styling. Long term, this thing may become a track car with this swap, but I have no clue what F/D ratio I should go for.

 

Speaking on that, anyone know the axle width difference between an H155 axle ass'y and that of a D21? Otherwise, I'll be paying $3k for a new BW78 axle+diff made for an R31 Skyline

 

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

You have 3.889 in your '75. KA has over 70% more displacement with 2 Xs the power and torque so it can turn lower ratio for mileage like a 3.545 or even 3.361.  

 

There is only one rear axle really for a KA and that is an H-190. The '82-'83 S110 200sx or the '84 S12 200sx are H-190, comparable width. They are all 4 link and coil spring, but a smart fella should be able to cut that shit off and weld on some leaf spring perches. The S110 was 3.545 and 3.70 for automatic, the S12 was 3.70 and 3.889 for the automatic. '94 and up Hardbody 2wd KA24E trucks were 3.545. You want lower? The Maxima wagon automatic was 3.364 and the '84-'86 Z20 engine 720 truck also had this ratio.

 

510 wagon rearend is H190 and nearly bolt in on the hatch backs. For sedans the spring mounts are a bit different but well with in the home gamer fabrication level. Width is only slightly wider (half inch or so on each side). If using a high offset wheel you can get it to still sit inside the wheel arch without flares.

 

Getting a KA24 into a A series car is a bit of a challenge, bit easier likely with a B210 than say a 1200, but it is still a relatively small engine bay and you will need to basically upgrade everything. I hope you are very comfortable with fab work.

 

I'd strongly suggest maybe going SR20 if affordable or better yet CA18 (of some flavor), both of which have been done before. 


Even a L or Z series engine which is a much easier swap and as long as you don't beat on it the H150 will live quite a while behind it and provide a good boost in power. 

 

Sources: I own a 4dr B210 sedan which I was originally looking to swap a KA24E into, I instead swapped it into my 1200 (which is lighter than the B210). I've done a lot of background work on getting these types of swaps to be successful.

 

Also: Here is the tire size calculator I came up with for a B210. It assumes rolled fender lips, 280ZX front struts and a spring assist on the rear H150 axle.  Any tire in 15inch size assumes a +12mm / 101mm offset and backspace.

 

 

 

 

B210tiresizechart.png

Edited by Dguy210
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23 hours ago, ToastyBass said:

I'm not 100% sure if I'll need to roll the fenders or not.

 

You do. 😁

 

18 hours ago, Dguy210 said:

Also: Here is the tire size calculator I came up with for a B210. It assumes rolled fender lips

 

Because EVERY B210 needs it fender lips rolled/pulled unless you are running stock wheels/tires. 😄

 

I like them best on 14s myself...

image.jpeg.0ca252d558ab3f440cb925d5d4ad7879.jpeg

 

But they can look alright on 15s...

image.jpeg.d55b789abe6d16caff7a7bc6ae165c8d.jpeg

 

 

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2 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

 

You do. 😁

 

 

Because EVERY B210 needs it fender lips rolled/pulled unless you are running stock wheels/tires. 😄

 

I like them best on 14s myself...

image.jpeg.0ca252d558ab3f440cb925d5d4ad7879.jpeg

 

But they can look alright on 15s...

image.jpeg.d55b789abe6d16caff7a7bc6ae165c8d.jpeg

 

 

 

Along with rolling the fenders, which are a must, you also want to bend back or remove that point at the bottom of the fender right in front. Wheel rub with oversize tires on the front is at two spots at full lock. First at that point on the fender which is easy to solve (just bend back) and then with increasing size at the footwell itself which is not so easy without getting into some modification.

 

I like the 15s personally.

May be an image of 2 people and outdoors

Edited by Dguy210
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For my 210, I have 185/60r14 and had to roll the fenders and use a heat gun on the plastic fender liners to mold them back. The front rubs a little on full lock on the drivers side. I think its hitting the metal tab that holds the liner. 

 

Not sure how much difference the 210 to the B210 is, but figured I'd add my .02

 

 

Datsun210lowered.jpg

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