How to lower a 510

[Labubre]

Hi,

Find my 510 sss sitting pretty high, especially on front.

I believe the struts/shocks to be in stock condition.

 

Weird...even no girlz sitting on the back

 

 

 

Read about 280ZX front struts...i this a first step towards lowering a bit?

No plans to upgrade brakes that i find pretty efficient for my smoooooth drive...

Could consider to change wheels aswell to minimize this gap with 15x7 and positive offset (+10 or +20).

Open to any reco

 

My target?

Perhaps as not low as this one...

Edited October 19, 2021 by Labubre

[iceman510]

You could go the 280X strut route, but that would include changing the brakes, as there would be no point to put 510 brakes on those struts.

 

You can also lower it using the stock 510 struts.  Best would be to shorten them instead of just shorter springs.  Looks like you have a way to do down.  Almost looks like Rallye springs may be in there.  The rear height definitely does not look stock.  Different springs or sagged?

[datzenmike]

The ZX has a larger wheel bearing than the 510 so the 510 hub and rotor won't fit anyway. Also the caliper bolt spacing on the 510 is 76mm and the zx is 89mm so they won't fit.

 

The zx strut is approximately 1" shorter than the 510 strut. If you shorten the strut tube you need a shorter insert inside to match.

 

If just looking for a couple of inches you can slice the bottom spring perches off the strut tube with a hack saw or angle grinder. Grind the weld down smooth. Use 2" split collars to support and allow the replaced, but free to move perches and spring, to slide down to the height you want and secure them.

 

 

 

 

 

I used a jack to lift and compress the stock spring...

 

Slide the split collar up and tighten in place to hold the spring perch in it's new location.

 

 

NOTE

 

Lowering this way does run the slight risk of bottoming the strut out on a large bump as there is reduced strut travel now, so it should only be up to 2 to 2.5 inches. There are two things that can mitigate this....

1/ You can use a stiffer spring which is harder to compress. You can even trim your stock spring to increase the spring rate but don't just cut them. There is some small math to calculate the new spring rate and how much to cut. Once cut you can't go back so do it right the first time. The 510 and the 710 are 100 pounds per inch spring rate. I increased to 150.

2/ If the struts have to original oil bath 'dampers' inside, you can replace the thin watery hydraulic oil with thicker 20w viscosity motorcycle shock oil to firm them up to resist compression and rebound and compliment the new spring rate.

 

Split collars were $25 Canadian and the shock oil was $17 for a liter, enough for 3 struts. I did this on both my 710s and it was under $50 each to lower and be adjustable plus the firmer shocks. Easily done in a day with hand tools and no welding. Split collars support 5,000 pounds each enough for more than two 510s!!! I've accidentally gone airborne over RR tracks and no bottoming. (I don't recommend this)  

 

One thing is for sure, the stock springs and dampers are always a bit on the soft side for general comfort and most people who drive enjoy driving a 'firmer feel' car.

 

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

this is from T3 Techno Toy TuningI believe its a kit to lower your strut perch. use a 7 inch spring. Ohoto is a 510 strut and brakes. remeber the strut perch has to be above the tire. its welded at the same location as the orginal. I can not go lower on the stut tube. so this why I got a 7inch spring to really drop the front down

 

However I would just cut a1  loop from the spring and see how that works as its alot cheaper and put a Koni shock in there and it will be fine. if not low enough then maybe a half more loop.  But remember  one year 510 had a long strut so if you cut too many loops out of the spring youll be riding on the bottom of the strut

 

 

for soem reason I cant see your photos. Mike help me here

[datzenmike]

If you cut a spring and make it too stiff for your liking you are stuck with it. Most 510 owners run a spring rate in the 200-220 pounds/inch or lb/in. Stock 510 front coils are 98 lb./in. My 710 was about 100 lb.in. and by making some very accurate measurements on the spring and some multiply and division you can calculate how much spring to cut off to get the rate you want. For the 710 1 1/4 coils cut off gives a 150 lb./in. spring rate. The 510 will be different as coil diameter, number of coils and thickness of the wire all affect this.

 

You can buy smaller diameter springs and a perch for use with split collars that will clear the tire better. Struts are all 2" so the spring has to be slightly larger than that.

 

 

The problem with adjustable coil overs besides the insane price is, you adjust them once for height and then all that money is just along for the ride.

 

Banzai I don't know why some pictures don't show. Could be from posting from hand held device? Sometimes the next time I look, there they are!

[yenpit]

Labubre, how strict is the MOT?  If they see that split collar that datzenmike is suggesting (good suggestion, I've done it before!), would they fail the car?  If you stick with your smaller wheel/tyre (see what I did there 😉), you could cut off the stock spring perch, slide that spring perch DOWN the tube a little & reweld.........but you are limited cuz it can rub on the tire, if you reweld too low!  If you go to a larger wheel/tire, you probably can't do this, cuz a larger diameter wheel/tire combo might be overall taller...........??

 

Somebody else suggested "sectioning" the strut tube & using another strut insert.  Good idea, but also pretty permanent...............don't mess that up! 

 

Do you have 79-83 280ZX's in the UK?  If so, find a good clean set of the front struts..........you can not use the ZX springs or top hats, so don't buy them.  Cut off the ZX spring perch, swap on the 510 spring perch & reweld.  You could also "section" the ZX strut tube............I think the Toyota MR2 is a good strut INSERT to use..........it is a little shorter than the original ZX insert.

 

In all of these scenario's, you would use the 510 coil spring, so you could also cut off a SMALL section of the coil..............but listen to datzenmike...........research, calculate etc before cutting!!

 

Coilovers are a great idea, but the cost is likely the highest in all of these scenario's!

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The problem with simply lowering the coil bucket on stock 510 struts is that you now only have a tiny bit of travel before you bottom out the strut.

 

Back in the old days, we would cut the strut with a giant pipe cutter and weld them back together. It needs to be straight as hell or it won't go back together.

 

I think the 280ZX strut is the best bang for the buck. You lower it enough, and maintain suspension travel and as an added bonus, you get the bigger wheels bearings and brakes. The wheel bearings are important. Stock 510 wheel bearings are tiny and can explode under extreme use. I had one give out in the middle of turn 6 at Sears Point. When you lose a wheel bearing in a 510, you lose the steering and brakes too. Scary ride.

[datzenmike]

Close but more than enough for just over 2" of drop for street use and safer if the spring and damper rate is increased, as mentioned. I think all owners would agree that firmer shocks and springs are high on the list anyway. I have maxima struts, which I'm guessing are similar to the zx ones and I did lower my sedan on the original struts till the fender was just above the tire. The 710 is 2,750 pounds, the 510 is 500 pounds lighter at 2,200 so even less chance. Coil overs are no different, just $250-$1,200 more so this is a viable and inexpensive mod for the 'do it yourself' owner. 

 

The 280zx strut tube is 0.8" shorter and 1.1" shorter inner depth for the damper or replacement insert. They are shorter but not by much. The 510 or other top hats might be thinner accounting for lower.

[yenpit]

1 hour ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

The problem with simply lowering the coil bucket on stock 510 struts is that you now only have a tiny bit of travel before you bottom out the strut.

 

Back in the old days, we would cut the strut with a giant pipe cutter and weld them back together. It needs to be straight as hell or it won't go back together.

 

I think the 280ZX strut is the best bang for the buck. You lower it enough, and maintain suspension travel and as an added bonus, you get the bigger wheels bearings and brakes. The wheel bearings are important. Stock 510 wheel bearings are tiny and can explode under extreme use. I had one give out in the middle of turn 6 at Sears Point. When you lose a wheel bearing in a 510, you lose the steering and brakes too. Scary ride.

 

Yup, we carefully cut & re-weld these days, on our vintage race 240Z's. 

 

I have a set of complete ZX struts, but the shipping cost to the UK would kill him!  Hopefully he can find a ZX parts car over there!

[Tedman]

Dime Quarterly Vol.6 Issue 3: Strut Shortening and Economical Ride Height Adjustment

Dime Quarterly Vol.11 Issue 4: Tech How-To: Strut Swap Guide

https://tinyurl.com/paa8rjwu

 

The 280ZX struts are 1/2" to 1 1/2" shorter than stock 510 struts, depending on which 510 struts you have.  Measuring "a" between the strut tube welds:

 

280ZX 10"

'68-'69 510 10.5"

'70-'71 510 11.5"

'72-'73 510 11"

 

If you opt for sectioning your strut tubes, AW11 Toyota MR2 rear inserts are about 1.5" shorter than 280ZX inserts and work great in a 510.  I am running these in Zeke. For comparison, the Tokico in the pic is a 280ZX front application, and the Koni is an MR2 rear application. Sorry I don't have the exact length measurements. 

[Labubre]

rebuilding the engine right now...but will be next

 

anybody went for vogtland lowering spring 9161044?

[shane4x4toy]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:52 AM, Labubre said:

rebuilding the engine right now...but will be next

 

anybody went for vogtland lowering spring 9161044?

anybody know anything about these vogtland springs they are the only thing available and are on ebay for $280 from Germany. Or any other options all i want are rears and king springs are no longer available

[mrbigtanker]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:52 AM, Labubre said:

rebuilding the engine right now...but will be next

 

anybody went for vogtland lowering spring 9161044?

Sir, unless you have the 280Z struts available in your country, it might cost a few more dollars, but just order a set ready to go. If you don't have welding capabilities and what have you, just buy them outright. 

[datzenmike]

Said he wants rears.

 

Lowering spring??? In what spring rate because the stock ones are always too soft and any lowering needs a stiffer spring to guard against bottoming out. Generally the front and rear spring rates are close to the same. If lowering the rear then I assume you have already lowered the front, so what spring rate are you running???

 

Stock front spring rate is 98 lb./in. Stock rears should be 98 X 2.8 (because cantilever control arms) = 275 lb/in.