Temperature problem?

[Veraciousreasoning]

Hey all,

 

I attached a photo to show what I wanna discuss

 

So I am running a bit hot as the picture shows and I have no idea why. I changed the Temperature gauge and flushed/changed the coolant. I am not seeing any visible leaks and I am not losing coolant (level is the same). The problem only happens when it is pretty hot out (85+) and does not persist at nighttime when I am driving home from work. 

 

When I changed the temperature gauge I made sure that the jiggly thing is facing towards the cab (top) and made sure that when I flushed and changed the radiator fluid that there was no air pockets. I filled it half way up, turned the engine and heat on full blast, and let it warm up with the cap off and slowly filled it up. Any thoughts? 

[banzai510(hainz)]

On these older rigs this can happen.

Since you have a 1980 is this still a L motor? or a Napz motor.? as this was getting into a transistion year. Im not a Napz expert but those have more head gasket issues

 But then again the L20 can have a slight crack in beween the water passages on the block but usually doesnt hurt anything.

what happens over the years if one doest change out the antifreeze or used to much water the aluminum can errode around the water passage.

I will PM you

[vicdat]

By Temperature gauge we all assume you mean Thermostat.....

Anyway that's probably the last L20B for the 720's I guess. Maybe an issue with the clutch fan....that's an easy check.

 

Vicdat

[Veraciousreasoning]

1 hour ago, vicdat said:

By Temperature gauge we all assume you mean Thermostat.....

Anyway that's probably the last L20B for the 720's I guess. Maybe an issue with the clutch fan....that's an easy check.

 

Vicdat

 

I'll check it out. I drove it for a bit this morning then checked the radiator fluid level. I noticed that my reserve was empty so put more fluid in it to be sure. I'll get back to everyone after work cause I gotta drive 40 minutes to work so she should be nice and warm. 

[Veraciousreasoning]

1 hour ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

On these older rigs this can happen.

Since you have a 1980 is this still a L motor? or a Napz motor.? as this was getting into a transistion year. Im not a Napz expert but those have more head gasket issues

 But then again the L20 can have a slight crack in beween the water passages on the block but usually doesnt hurt anything.

what happens over the years if one doest change out the antifreeze or used to much water the aluminum can errode around the water passage.

I will PM you

 

I have the L20B motor. The truck only has 160k miles on it so I doubt it is that. The engine sounds great. When it's warm you can barely even hear the motor running its so quiet. The only thing I can hear when driving is my shitty muffler system that has tiny holes everywhere. I am saving for a new muffler system currently. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

160k on a motor not been broken into is a pretty good.  But I woud be building a spare motor soon. the timming chain tight side guides must be getting worn.

 

find a good muffler shop ans use aluminized pipe and should had another 20yrs or more. As im older I like the quiet mufflers on trucks. I think Walker makes those quiet ones.

 

Even my 510 and 521 on really hot 85deg plus days if Im stuck in traffic its climbing up there on the temp and lucky the light turns green in time.

alwasy use the 50.50 mix from the store and swap out say every 3 /4 years as straight water will eat the front cover and put wear the water pump is and look like termites went thru it then water drains in the oil when water get pressurized( I know) thinking my head gasket went

[Veraciousreasoning]

2 hours ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

160k on a motor not been broken into is a pretty good.  But I woud be building a spare motor soon. the timming chain tight side guides must be getting worn.

 

find a good muffler shop ans use aluminized pipe and should had another 20yrs or more. As im older I like the quiet mufflers on trucks. I think Walker makes those quiet ones.

 

Even my 510 and 521 on really hot 85deg plus days if Im stuck in traffic its climbing up there on the temp and lucky the light turns green in time.

alwasy use the 50.50 mix from the store and swap out say every 3 /4 years as straight water will eat the front cover and put wear the water pump is and look like termites went thru it then water drains in the oil when water get pressurized( I know) thinking my head gasket went

 

I don't like loud trucks so I would agree that a quiet muffler is preferred. I don't know much about timing chains so I may bring that to someone who knows a bit more about it than me or just pucker up and fix it myself. 

[NC85ST]

You might want to try a good aftermarket temperature gauge and make sure that there truly is a problem. I wouldn’t rely solely on the factory gauge.

[captain720]

1 hour ago, NC85ST said:

You might want to try a good aftermarket temperature gauge and make sure that there truly is a problem. I wouldn’t rely solely on the factory gauge.

I only rely on factory gauges when I like what they have to say

[datzenmike]

 

This is well within the marked 'run range' so you are safe. However, generally the radiator should be able to keep the needle steady in it's normal position, usually about a hair above 1/2 way even in hot weather. 

 

Some things that might cause higher than 'normal' temperature readings...

 

Lack of air flow

1/ clutch fan has lost some of it's oil and is slipping excessively. Spin the fan blade with your hand, hard. The fan should stop immediately.

2/ radiator exterior fins are plugged with bugs, leaves, dirt and debris.

3/ fog lights, winch, bush bar interfering with air flow.

4/ air is getting around or over the top of the rad. Rad support isn't sealed properly

5/ Rad shroud is missing. The shroud increases the fan's efficiency.

 

Lack of water flow

1/ Radiator inner tubes are crusty with hard water scale reducing flow. Remove and fill with CLR overnight.

2/ Rev the engine to 3,000 at least, and watch to see if the lower radiator hose is soft and collapses from the suction. Hoses rot from the inside out and it may not be evident they are bad. A collapsing hose may also indicate the rad is plugged.

3/ If the heater is leaking and disconnected, are the two heater hoses connected together? Never do this. If connecting together, be sure that the flow is blocked. Hot water from the block is being returned directly to the  lower radiator hose with out any cooling by the heater core. That's a lot of hot water that is by passing the rad putting a strain on the cooling system in hot weather.

 

 Runner up...

Engine out of tune. Exhaust side plugs not firing. Engine acts like it severely retarded dumping most of the hot gasses into the exhaust port heating the coolant but doing less work.

Or engine timing simply retarded. For the L20B should be 12 BTDC

 

 

 

[bottomwatcher]

Look inside your radiator. Rusty and looks like deposits clogging the tubes? They need a good cleaning after a while. Remove radiator and fill with clr or if you are brave and don't mind dealing with the fumes use muriatic acid. If you live anywhere near the coast see if the fins seem "powdery" and time for a new radiator. Your radiator is having a hard time shedding the heat. One other cause is if you went for the $5 thermostat. Good thermostats are over $15.

[Veraciousreasoning]

13 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

This is well within the marked 'run range' so you are safe. However, generally the radiator should be able to keep the needle steady in it's normal position, usually about a hair above 1/2 way even in hot weather. 

 

Some things that might cause higher than 'normal' temperature readings...

 

Lack of air flow

1/ clutch fan has lost some of it's oil and is slipping excessively. Spin the fan blade with your hand, hard. The fan should stop immediately.

2/ radiator exterior fins are plugged with bugs, leaves, dirt and debris.

3/ fog lights, winch, bush bar interfering with air flow.

4/ air is getting around or over the top of the rad. Rad support isn't sealed properly

5/ Rad shroud is missing. The shroud increases the fan's efficiency.

 

Lack of water flow

1/ Radiator inner tubes are crusty with hard water scale reducing flow. Remove and fill with CLR overnight.

2/ Rev the engine to 3,000 at least, and watch to see if the lower radiator hose is soft and collapses from the suction. Hoses rot from the inside out and it may not be evident they are bad. A collapsing hose may also indicate the rad is plugged.

3/ If the heater is leaking and disconnected, are the two heater hoses connected together? Never do this. If connecting together, be sure that the flow is blocked. Hot water from the block is being returned directly to the  lower radiator hose with out any cooling by the heater core. That's a lot of hot water that is by passing the rad putting a strain on the cooling system in hot weather.

 

 Runner up...

Engine out of tune. Exhaust side plugs not firing. Engine acts like it severely retarded dumping most of the hot gasses into the exhaust port heating the coolant but doing less work.

Or engine timing simply retarded. For the L20B should be 12 BTDC

 

 

 

 

1. Clutch fan does stop right away

2. I took out the radiator yesterday and gave her a good scrubbing. There was some debris in there. 

3. I don't know how I would alleviate that. 

 

I changed the radiator hoses, flushed the system, and used radiator cleaner yesterday. There was a bunch of serious debris in there and tiny silver looking flakes which I am going to assume was ether A metal from the radiator or B material from stop leak. Ether or I will give her a drive today and see if it changes it. 

[datzenmike]

Silver flakes is normal is that's the solder used to seal the radiator. If it's some kind of stop leak it needs to be flushed out. Stop leak products are the worst product ever made. It clogs radiators and heater cores.

 

You mention debris twice so likely there would be a third time if you removed and cleaned it again. So take it out and lay front down with the cap on. Fill with CLR and let sit over night. The CLR will dissolve the calcium and limestone build up from using hard water for topping up for the last 30 years. These dissolved minerals are concentrated as the water boils away. Best to use distilled water and a later coolant recovery rad cap and reservoir from a later 720. It catches the overflow and returns it to the radiator greatly reducing topping up. Use a garden hose in the inlet/outlets and reverse flush it when done. Probably a good idea to reverse flush the heater hoses to flush the core if there is any chance of stop leak pellets in there. This will preclude any getting out and into the radiator again.

 

I did my 710 radiator with CLR and it sat for 2 days because I couldn't get to it. It's completely safe inside radiators. 

[Veraciousreasoning]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Silver flakes is normal is that's the solder used to seal the radiator. If it's some kind of stop leak it needs to be flushed out. Stop leak products are the worst product ever made. It clogs radiators and heater cores.

 

You mention debris twice so likely there would be a third time if you removed and cleaned it again. So take it out and lay front down with the cap on. Fill with CLR and let sit over night. The CLR will dissolve the calcium and limestone build up from using hard water for topping up for the last 30 years. These dissolved minerals are concentrated as the water boils away. Best to use distilled water and a later coolant recovery rad cap and reservoir from a later 720. It catches the overflow and returns it to the radiator greatly reducing topping up. Use a garden hose in the inlet/outlets and reverse flush it when done. Probably a good idea to reverse flush the heater hoses to flush the core if there is any chance of stop leak pellets in there. This will preclude any getting out and into the radiator again.

 

I did my 710 radiator with CLR and it sat for 2 days because I couldn't get to it. It's completely safe inside radiators. 

 

Yea, stop leak is shit I do know this lol 

 

I'll do that as soon as I can. I did a flush yesterday and today I will see if it drives at normal operating temperature. 

[Veraciousreasoning]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:49 AM, datzenmike said:

Silver flakes is normal is that's the solder used to seal the radiator. If it's some kind of stop leak it needs to be flushed out. Stop leak products are the worst product ever made. It clogs radiators and heater cores.

 

You mention debris twice so likely there would be a third time if you removed and cleaned it again. So take it out and lay front down with the cap on. Fill with CLR and let sit over night. The CLR will dissolve the calcium and limestone build up from using hard water for topping up for the last 30 years. These dissolved minerals are concentrated as the water boils away. Best to use distilled water and a later coolant recovery rad cap and reservoir from a later 720. It catches the overflow and returns it to the radiator greatly reducing topping up. Use a garden hose in the inlet/outlets and reverse flush it when done. Probably a good idea to reverse flush the heater hoses to flush the core if there is any chance of stop leak pellets in there. This will preclude any getting out and into the radiator again.

 

I did my 710 radiator with CLR and it sat for 2 days because I couldn't get to it. It's completely safe inside radiators. 

 

 

Update and Solved

 

Yesterday, I took my fluid out, put CLR in it and let it sit for 3 hours. Put everything back together and drove. Yesterday Temp was around 85 degrees and low and behold. The needle sat right in the middle. 

[datzenmike]

Best $5 ever spent!!! Be sure to use distilled water or if already mixed, only top up with distilled water from now on.

[Veraciousreasoning]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Best $5 ever spent!!! Be sure to use distilled water or if already mixed, only top up with distilled water.

 

I live off-grid and we have a well. Attached to my well I have a 3-tiered carbon filtered system which feeds my tiny house and garden hose. I filled it up with that because, its extremely clean and I try not to use plastic to the best of my ability. 

[datzenmike]

If water travels a long way in or above ground it can't help dissolving minerals is all. If your water source is reasonably close by you'll be fine. My 'soft' water is piped from a lake up in the mountains about 5 or 6 miles away and is mostly snow melt. If I visit my daughter in Calgary I have a hell of a time lathering soap with their 'hard' water. A good cooling system (with a coolant recovery reservoir) will only need a cup or two of water a year.

[Charlie69]

If distilled water is too expensive then at least boil your filtered water.

[Veraciousreasoning]

18 hours ago, Charlie69 said:

If distilled water is too expensive then at least boil your filtered water.

 

It's not that it's too expensive its more about the plastic usage. We live off-grid and try to live as sustainably as possible. I know the water I produce at my house is very, very, clean. 

[datzenmike]

 Boiling doesn't really change the dissolved limestone in it. Boiling concentrates it just like the radiator. Keep adding and the water is boiled away leaving the solids. Not much of a problem in the mountains.

[Veraciousreasoning]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 Boiling doesn't really change the dissolved limestone in it. Boiling concentrates it just like the radiator. Keep adding and the water is boiled away leaving the solids. Not much of a problem in the mountains.

 

I live in the mountains and get super clean spring water. I use a 3 tiered carbon filtered system to clean it even more. Since I did the flush everything is working great. Now I am having a problem of it taking to damn long to heat up lol 

[henry]

I use those reverse osmosis dispensing machines that are in front of some groceries stores.

    The water comes out mineral free. .40$/g in So Cal.

     Henry

[datzenmike]

7 hours ago, Veraciousreasoning said:

 

I live in the mountains and get super clean spring water. I use a 3 tiered carbon filtered system to clean it even more. Since I did the flush everything is working great. Now I am having a problem of it taking to damn long to heat up lol 

 

It should be warmed up in about 10-15 min depending on outside temperatures. 

[Veraciousreasoning]

On 10/1/2021 at 2:27 PM, datzenmike said:

 

It should be warmed up in about 10-15 min depending on outside temperatures. 

 

Today the temperature reached up to 90 and the problem came back. I have no idea what to check next.