Intro/build thread

[MTBiker_Boy]

Before i get into this, i am curious, how is turboing an l series more expensive than swapping in a KA24? Keep in mind this question comes from ignorance, not malice. I saw this kit online, which got me thinking about it. Blow Through Kit (turbodatsun.com) but if i take that kit, (1210), add on a used sr20det-sized turbo (200), and another 1000 for the parts to make a manifold,exhuast, and various hoses and whatnot. I am still below 2500 dollars. I can't even buy an sr20 for that much. What am i missing? Because that doesn't seem like huge money to me. i can put maybe 5 psi through and it should be fine. (Assuming the engine was mint beforehand. Mine's not, but there's more to come on that.) That's also a lot less effort than a full engine swap.

I also never looked at powder coating the cab. I'd like to learn more about that, is it expensive? do you do the whole cab or just the parts particularly vulnerable to rust? do you paint over it?

On 4/25/2022 at 11:11 AM, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I get that. Stock L motors are not very impressive. But...turboing any L motor costs twice as much as swapping in a KA24 or SR20. Yes, I like to see L motors in old Datsuns, but the money spent to do a proper turbo build is huge.

 

I hate rust. The thing about rust that kills me is that if you can see it, that means that there's a much larger problem hidden under the layers. Just knowing what lies beneath makes me shiver. There's never an easy way to attack it either. Pulling the cab is definitely the best way to go.If you're going that far, you should consider having it blasted and powder coated too. I just got one back from the coaters which was done in a zinc rich powder that is super corrosion resistant. I've got another one at the coaters that I didn't want to remove all the seam sealer from (because it was in great shape), but it's going to upstate New York and I wanted it coated, so I asked, and yes, even the seam sealer can take the heat. They bake it to 360 degrees, instead of the usual 400 degrees.

 

Alright some stuff has happened over the weekend.

 

First off, I went home (where my truck resides) for the weekend, so i could fit the fuel pump that i got from @420n620. It works great so far! I was worried with a NOS one, the seals and stuff would be dried up, but it all looked good. There is 1000% a difference between a legit fuel pump and the orielly ones. Milled mounting surface, box with japanese on it, plugs on the ends, ends facing the right way, everything is just right. So i have high hopes. https://i.imgur.com/hXZEDsB.mp4

 

The truck started up as soon as fuel got to the carb, i let it run for 10 minutes or so, and then i shut it off to work on the seats. the next morning though, i had to crank it for like 30 seconds again before it would start. And it's not like it started with the fuel in the bowl, then shut off again, it was nothing for 30 seconds. This makes me think that fuel is being siphoned out of the carb. Is that a sign of it needing a rebuild? or is it something else? I don't know much about carburetors.

 

It also sounded like it was running a bit rough, is this a spark/ignition issue? https://i.imgur.com/6UCIcug.mp4

 

Anyway, it was time to work on the seats. I figured out by a rough estimate and using my keys as a plumb bob from the steering column, the seat brackets should be 3.5 inches from the door sill. At least with my combination of Amazon.com: InVictus Steel Side Mount Brakcet for Bucket Race Seat (1 Pack, Black) : Automotive and JEGS 702270: Bomber Seat 18 in. Natural Aluminum - JEGS High Performance. That being the case, and keeping it level, the edge of the seat bottom barely cleared the trans tunnel. so modification of the seat brackets was in order. Not a huge deal, because they are cheap. I had some other things to modify as well anyway, like the bracket fouling the seatbelt hole. 

 

I also got locked out of the driver's door of my truck twice more, which is really annoying. The last time the plastic piece completely broke, and disappeared. https://i.imgur.com/jadiEpO.mp4

 

But enough complaining about my problems, time to solve them. I took the seat brackets and pushrod with me back to school where there is a full metal shop and i can work on them. First up was the seat brackets. 

I cut two of the seat brackets lengthwise with a small bandsaw using a block to prop it up, and a piece of steel and some vice grips to make an impromptu fence to keep it straight. I then swapped the two cutoff pieces (left base to right top, right base to left top) and welded them back together so they will go way under the seat and hopefully clear the trans tunnel. To those of you who are pro welders, feel free to roast me and tell me how this weld is going to make my truck explode.

 

 

I still have yet to do the other modifications to the bracket, but that's tomorrow's project. When i get home i'll hit it with a rattlecan black to cover up my welds.

 

After that was done, it was time to address the handle push bar. I'm making two of them because i don't want the other one to fail either. 

I measured the holes in my truck, and they were both 1/4 inch, or just large enough for the smooth shank of a 1/4 bolt to slip through. So for this, i used some 1/4 inch rod i found in the shop. I'm assuming mild steel. I determined through careful measurement and guesstimation that 7 1/2 inches were needed per pushrod, and the plan was this; 2.5 inches of rod, bend 15 degrees, 4 inches of rod, bend 75 degrees, and then 1 inch of rod. I used an oxyacetylene torch to heat it up and bend it, but i'm sure the same could be done with any sort of torch. I then tacked on a 1/4 inch washer right next to the 75 degree bend.

Although i haven't done it yet(again, tomorrow project), Next up will be threading 2 inches of the bottom 2 1/2, and threading as much as possible of the inch up top, maybe leaving an eight of an inch for the pivot to not ride on threads. I suppose this could be done with allthread too, but i like to think i'm a little more high class than that.

That got pretty damn close to the dimensions/offset of the stock wire piece, but i don't have the top plastic piece, so i don't know for sure. I'll have to test fit it when i can get back home to work on my truck. this will also have nylon lock nuts on them. ironic considering the whole point was to get rid of the plastic, but this is different i swear. I'm also aware that this is way overbuilt for this small task, but i tend to overcompensate for things. Why do you think i drive such a small truck?

 

I'm considering doing a write up on this, but it doesn't seem like a huge problem or it would have been done before. right?

 

Oh and one last thing. I am all about preserving patina, and i love the shiny patina look on classics. I have seen plenty of products for preserving patina, but what should I do about the roof? the cracked and flaky paint wouldn't even allow me to apply a product to it because i can't drag a cloth over it without more coming off. 

[datzenmike]

On 4/25/2022 at 9:11 AM, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

..... but the money spent to do a proper turbo build is huge.

 

 

 

 

That kit is barely good enough for 5-7PSI boost.... so 130-hp?  So less than 50% increase and only for very short duration. If you want it to last, as no one will be content to run only 7 PSI, you have to build for the long run. This will make about 50% more heat so cooling system up grades are needed, an oil cooler, KA oil pump, some kind of ignition retard that matches the boost, forged pistons are preferable and ring end gap critical if going higher.  O ringing the block? 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

5 hours ago, MTBiker_Boy said:

Before i get into this, i am curious, how is turboing an l series more expensive than swapping in a KA24? Keep in mind this question comes from ignorance, not malice. I saw this kit online, which got me thinking about it. Blow Through Kit (turbodatsun.com) but if i take that kit, (1210), add on a used sr20det-sized turbo (200), and another 1000 for the parts to make a manifold,exhuast, and various hoses and whatnot. I am still below 2500 dollars. I can't even buy an sr20 for that much. What am i missing? Because that doesn't seem like huge money to me. i can put maybe 5 psi through and it should be fine. (Assuming the engine was mint beforehand. Mine's not, but there's more to come on that.) That's also a lot less effort than a full engine swap.

I also never looked at powder coating the cab. I'd like to learn more about that, is it expensive? do you do the whole cab or just the parts particularly vulnerable to rust? do you paint over it?

 

... feel free to roast me and tell me how this weld is going to make my truck explode.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

That kit is barely good enough for 5-7PSI boost.... so 130-hp?  So less than 50% increase and only for very short duration. If you want it to last, as no one will be content to run only 7 PSI, you have to build for the long run. This will make about 50% more heat so cooling system up grades are needed, an oil cooler, KA oil pump, some kind of ignition retard that matches the boost, forged pistons are preferable and ring end gap critical if going higher.  O ringing the block? 

As Mike said, you won't be happy with the 130 or so hp that turbo will give you. I guarantee it. Eventually you'll want to crank up the boost and then guess what will happen? You'll break a piston and the whole motor will burn to the ground. A proper turbo setup starts with a built bottom end and lower than stock compression ratio. Yes, o-ring on the top of the block will help ensure the gasket stays put. Then you've got the induction system. Blow-through systems are not very smart and can be hard on the carburetor. It will rely on spark from a distributor which will need some attention to make sure the timing curve is absolutely perfect, or guess what? You'll break a piston and... A proper turbo system will utilize EFI so that all the variables are accounted for in a manner that a carb and distributor can't handle.

 

Blow through systems are antiquated and will cause more headache than you can imagine. Or, just give you a very small hp increase, hardly enough to notice.

 

BTW - your welds aren't that bad. Strength is the key and appearance comes second. Yours are smooth enough and don't look like bird shit, so forget about it.

 

Powder coating the entire cab means blasting to bare metal, spraying on the powder and baking the entire cab in a huge oven. You can coat with color or just use it as a primer. The nice thing about powder coated body panels is that it is baked on, which makes it super durable. For your rust-belt environment, I'd go with the zinc rich powder primer. It's as close as you can get to a factory applied e-coat as you can get. The rest of the panels can be powder coated too. I would estimate about $1800 for the entire blasting and coating of the cab and panels. The bed would be another $800 or so. The only downside to powder coating the body is that all the metal work should be done prior to coating, and working on rusty metal isn't easy or fun. I get a bloody nose every time I work with rusty metal.

[MTBiker_Boy]

Ok that makes sense. So it is not really a matter of not being able to turbo an l20b, but rather it getting really expensive really quick if i want to go any further than a couple psi.

[MTBiker_Boy]

may have gone a little overkill, but plastic be gone. Still gotta go pick up two nylock nuts to go onto the end and the install in the truck

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

What are those for? The door catch?

[datzenmike]

Connects to door lock cylinder.

[MTBiker_Boy]

Yep, you can see from my wednesday post a pic from the old one, but it goes from the handle down to connect to the rest of the locking mechanism.

[MTBiker_Boy]

Also maybe i’m just dumb and/or blind, but i can’t find anywhere that explains how to replace the side window wipes. I have ones that came with the truck when i bought it, so i figure i should probably do it but i have no clue how. 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I think you need the plastic pieces because the arm on the lock moves in an arc. You could grind the nuts down to have a concave face (convex, whatever).

 

The wipes? You mean the ones on top of the door, at the bottom of the glass? There are clips that hold those wipers in place. With the window down, you pull up and twist until they pop. Sometimes they don't pop and are a real pain to get loose. A long, bent, flat screwdriver is what I use.

[MTBiker_Boy]

I’m not worried at all about having a flat face. The worst thing that could happen is just a tiny bit of sine error changing the leverage ratio throughout the pull. That already happens going from the rotational motion of the handle to the linear motion of the locking system.

 

and yes, those wipes. The ones that keep water from getting inside the door. I was hoping there was a nice and easy way to get them out rather than pulling and twisting, but i guess it is what it is.

[MTBiker_Boy]

Alright i am terrible with updating this, but here ya go.

So since i got the new fuel pump, i have had more fuel problems, so i decided to go down the line, from the lines down to the tank. I ended up removing the bed and taking a look at the gas tank, and i have no words for what i found.

https://imgur.com/rOTehttps://imgur.com/rOTetfS

https://imgur.com/GFUaXQ9

Needless to say it was a bit rusty... so anyway i knew then that i had to get rid of it.

 

My options were to

A. Find a new (used) one that isn't rusty,

B. Restore this one, which is a tall order

C. Fuel cell time

I couldn't find any new ones, i might've been able to modyify and fit one from a 720 or d21 or something, but even then i'm still dealing with oem stuff and i don't really want to have to do new hard lines.

Restoring this one would have been expensive if i brought it to someone, and i couldn't do it on my own,

so i was left with the option of doing a fuel cell.

 

I knew that there was already a write up of doing a fuel cell, so i decided that it shouldn't be too hard if i just followed this.

there were some things i didn't like with the mounting though. Namely that it wasn't level and it was too low. I don't plan on using the stock fill neck, i am fine with cutting a hole in the bed, so i made a new design.

the top rib you see intersecting is the support rib on the bed, which i am going to have to notch, but i'm not too worried about that. i have to cut out a middle section of that anyway for the fill point, so it is what it is. I used 1/8 inch mild steel on the top strap, 1/8 stainless on the bottom, and 11ga brackets cut from sendcutsend. I might end up posting the cad drawings and doing a write up on it, but idk how much demand there is for that.

In any case, next i just have to plumb it up, and i'm probably going to switch to an electric fuel pump, so i have to figure out how to wire that as well.

more to come probably

[MTBiker_Boy]

oh yeah and i lowered it 2 inches in the rear, and matched the front with torsion bars. i think i need to go lower though. either 3 or 4

[datzenmike]

 

Two methods....

 

1/ Fill a suitable container with vinegar and submerge it for a day or two. I find it actually works but the vinegar does get weaker with use.

 

2/ Materials needed... Arm and Hammer washing soda, battery charger or a charged 12v battery, piece of scrap steel

Mix a handful of washing soda in water in a suitable size container. Connect the negative battery charger wire to the part to be cleaned and the positive cable to the scrap metal part. (polarity is important) Connection must be solid. Suspend and submerge both in the liquid so they do not touch. Turn on battery charger. Right away both parts will begin to gently fizz. The washing soda makes the water conductive and any rust will transfer over to and plate on the scrap metal piece leaving your part free of rust.

 

Left over washing soda can be used for washing clothes. 

[MTBiker_Boy]

I gave up on all the old stuff as soon as i saw it. New fuel cell came with it’s own sender. I’m never going to use the old stuff, but a wise man once told me to never get rid of OEM datsun parts 😉 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

There is a point at which you can throw things away, but generally, if it's original, in good shape, and replacements are hard to come by, try to hang onto old parts.

[MTBiker_Boy]

Yeah i think it was on a post about crappy alternators that mike said that

[EDM620]

22 hours ago, datzenmike said:

2/ Materials needed... Arm and Hammer washing soda, battery charger or a charged 12v battery, piece of scrap steel

This electrolysis process is very effective, your battery charger must be old style as in not automatic or it will stop working. You can use it for anything you can submerge, and it will get into every small nook & cranny. Give it a few days to complete the job.

 

This is how much crud was removed just from my front disc backing plates.

[EDM620]

If you can't find washing soda (sodium carbonate), use baking powder (sodium BI-carbonate) - you convert it by baking it in an oven to release the moisture.

Turn Baking Soda Into Washing Soda (thoughtco.com)

[MTBiker_Boy]

I’m confused, why is everybody talking about getting the rust off? I’m not putting any effort into the fuel tank, i installed a fuel cell. I don’t need the tank anymore.

[datzenmike]

On 10/27/2022 at 3:16 PM, MTBiker_Boy said:

 

 

https://imgur.com/GFUaXQ9

Needless to say it was a bit rusty... so anyway i knew then that i had to get rid of it.

 

My options were to

A. Find a new (used) one that isn't rusty,

B. Restore this one, which is a tall order

C. Fuel cell time

I couldn't find any new ones, i might've been able to modyify and fit one from a 720 or d21 or something, but even then i'm still dealing with oem stuff and i don't really want to have to do new hard lines.

Restoring this one would have been expensive if i brought it to someone, and i couldn't do it on my own,

so i was left with the option of doing a fuel cell.

 

 

 

Your stated options included A and B above. It certainly might be possible for you to restoring it yourself and that option should be explored and made available to you. You did opt for the fuel cel and that's totally fine. There are others reading this now and in the future that may opt for restoring the stock tank.

[MTBiker_Boy]

Yeah, that’s a fair point. I didn’t even think that other people might look at this

[KELMO]

If there are pics, we're gonna look.

 

2 or 3 of us may actually read stuff too.