Das Kommissar

[seattle smitty]

I like old Datsuns.  Have had four 510 wagons during the last forty five of my sixty nine years (EDIT, fifty nine years, doh!!) of car ownership,  and I'm now slowly reviving a badly neglected 2WD 720 King Cab.  But I DO NOT like Datsun's rear drum brakes!!  Was trying yesterday to disassemble my 720  rear brakes with the ordinary brake tools used forever on generic (Chevy) drum brakes and without guidance from the Haynes manual I forgot to bring along.  "Guidance?" you may ask,  "Who needs guidance to work on drum brakes?"   And if they  were good old 'Merikin (Chevy-style) drum brakes, any car guy can do them in the dark and half-drunk.  But noooo, these diddley-dingus  Datsun drums with their absurd sliding elements and springs half-hidden and immovable by your old trusty brake pliers, well, even really creative profanity doesn't cover it.  Back home and looking at the Haynes manual, I'm asking, "So what the hell was your point, Datsun, why take the go-to design for drum brakes (Chevrolet since at least the mid-'50s that I know of) and redesign it to be WORSE?!!"  Oh, I think we know why:  NOT INVENTED HERE.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Of course. American manufacturers all are guilty of this attitude.  In 1950 or so, Ford went to far-superior Timken roller wheel bearings replacing the old ball bearings.  But did GM accept this better idea?   Nope, they stubbornly staid with their old bearings for another three or four years.  Another example:  In the mid-'50s  AC/Delco (GM) came  out with some very cool adjustable-gap breaker points that let you set dwell with an Allen wrench in less time than it takes to type this.  So did Ford pay Delco the small amount it would have cost per unit to have this nifty feature on their customers' cars? Hell no!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           With this in mind. I submit to you that what we need in this country is a Commissar of Generic Car Parts.  Manufacturers here, and foreign companies selling cars here, would have 97% of the scope for creativity they now enjoy, but for certain items common to all cars the manufacturers would have to chose from a limited selection of Commissar-approved designs.  You need wheels to equip your new 2024 Belchfire Deluxe?  Well, unlike in the bad old days of 2021, we won't let you have every dimension you might want in diameter. width, offset, number of lugnuts, lugnut size, lugnut thread, spindle-hole diameter, etc., etc., etc..   That led to dozens and dozens of wheels that wouldn't interchange.  So today the Office of the Commissar allows you to choose from any of our fifteen standardized specification rims, no charge.  Oh. you say you can't do without a special rim, Mister Manufacturer?  Okay, the Commissar can grant you a special part exemption.  That will cost you four million dollars up front.  Still interested?  Next?  Rear drum brakes?  Sure, our standard Chevrolet design drum brakes are available at no charge in a range of sizes  .  .  .  what's that, Nissan,  .  .  .    wait, let me see the drawing  .  .  .  are you serious??  Well, whatever,  our special Commissar's exemption for that steaming pile, er, that drum brake design, will cost you  .  .  .  .  (fade to black).

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by seattle smitty

[datzenmike]

Finally made it smitty? Right in the middle of axing elmer the forum got an update. Fill out your profile with a location (I assume Seattle) and your current vehicle(s). This will help later in discussions and save people asking what you are talking about in you posts. 

 

Japan is much much better at this than N Am. JATCO makes transmissions and the only difference is the engine bolt pattern between auto makers. Another is Fuji Heavy industries (Mazda owned now) parts suppliers. This is why a Subaru IRS differential will fit a 510 and why the early '80s Toyota 4x4 four pot calipers will directly bolt onto a 240z car. There are probably more examples. The only example I know of here is the early GTO using a FoMoCo 3 speed because GM didn't have a synchromesh first 3 speed at the time. 

[seattle smitty]

I have to get back to those stupid brakes today.  I still work three days a week, or I'd have more ambition and get this pore 'ol rusty 720 fixed up quicker.  I can't find an EDIT function here or I would correct that "been a car owner sixty nine years" goof,  which would have had me on the road at age 6.  Actually, I am a mere 75, just old enough for senile dementia, it appears.  Anyway, anybody have any suggestions for car parts that oughta be standardized by a commissar?  Who should BE our first commissar, hmmm, I kind of like old Scotty Kilmer on YouTube  .  .  .  .                                                              (Ahh, just found the EDIT)

Edited July 7, 2021 by seattle smitty

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I believe the correct spelling is kommissar, and the gender is masculine, so der, instead of das.

 

@banzai510(hainz)Ask Hainz. He speaks German.

[banzai510(hainz)]

if masc its Der, in plural or Fem its Die but Das I am not sure of and I wing it . Das Auto!!!!!!!!!!!

I only speak like a 4th grade German. basic get around German

 

Der Kommisar might not cut it now in a Woke America if the Kommisar is a female then it be Die Kommisar

[captain720]

I made a video about the drum brakes if that's helpful for you. There's info in it about the parts that actually fit some years and some part numbers of what I used.

 

https://youtu.be/eRWWcfaL7-E

Edited July 7, 2021 by captain720
Added info

[datzenmike]

Upper right of your post. Look for 3 horizontal dots ... for more options including EDIT.

[MikeRL411]

8 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Finally made it smitty? Right in the middle of axing elmer the forum got an update. Fill out your profile with a location (I assume Seattle) and your current vehicle(s). This will help later in discussions and save people asking what you are talking about in you posts. 

 

Japan is much much better at this than N Am. JATCO makes transmissions and the only difference is the engine bolt pattern between auto makers. Another is Fuji Heavy industries (Mazda owned now) parts suppliers. This is why a Subaru IRS differential will fit a 510 and why the early '80s Toyota 4x4 four pot calipers will directly bolt onto a 240z car. There are probably more examples. The only example I know of here is the early GTO using a FoMoCo 3 speed because GM didn't have a synchromesh first 3 speed at the time. 

 

Surprising true fact.  For years Chevy persisted in using the 2 speed Powerglide transmission because American Motors out bid them for the 3 speeed Hydromatic.  Each GM division was a profit center and had its own profit goals, so selling your transmission to the highest bidder was the goal.

[thisismatt]

This country can't even decide on a consistent style on-ramp/off-ramp, what makes you think there's any hope? 😅

 

Like, oh, here's a mile long on-ramp with another mile of merge lane, and then, here's a hairpin clover leaf 20mph interchange dumping you onto a 75mph interstate with 10 feet of merge lane that is also an exit, good luck with the semi-trucks!

[seattle smitty]

Captain 720 , I just clicked the link to your video, but alas for me the 720 you show there must be a few years newer than my '81, with different and far better brakes than I have.  It appears that even Nissan finally discovered the merits of American drum brakes, which is what yours look like, with easily accessible spring mounting points for one obvious upgrade. Your homemade tools are fine, but that Chevy-style brake design is where a standard brake pliers, with all of its various little gizmos, can have those brakes apart or reassembled in mere seconds (though the design is so good that your homemade tools wouldn't be much slower and should be a little cheaper as you point out).                                                                                                   FWIW, I took the das from Marx, "Das Kapital " .  .  .  (the) "Capital"  .  .  .  switching to English spelling of commissar with a C in the text.

Edited July 9, 2021 by seattle smitty

[datzenmike]

Build dates of 12/'81 or about half way into the '82 model year and onward, self adjusting rear brakes were used.

[Charlie69]

That is one thing that Texas has is consistent on/off ramps, they are all extremely short and hiway posted speed is 80 mph.

[bottomwatcher]

I have the early brakes and I remember a threaded hook like tool with a screwdriver handle seemed to work much better than pliers. The brakes do occasionally need to be adjusted. I have 31 inch tires so this probably doesn't matter to the unlifted but the biggest improvement I made to this system was to go from a single diaphragm booster to a dual diaphragm. A whole lot more power in the "power brakes". Of course when I hop in the datsun after driving my 3/4 ton Silverado I long for the chevys brakes. Same thing when I go from the datsun to the 68 beetle. I long for the Datsuns brakes. Nothing like 4 wheel unpowered drums to make pay attention to the car ahead of you brake lights.

[captain720]

10 hours ago, seattle smitty said:

Captain 720 , I just clicked the link to your video, but alas for me the 720 you show there must be a few years newer than my '81, with different and far better brakes than I have.  It appears that even Nissan finally discovered the merits of American drum brakes, which is what yours look like, with easily accessible spring mounting points for one obvious upgrade. Your homemade tools are fine, but that Chevy-style brake design is where a standard brake pliers, with all of its various little gizmos, can have those brakes apart or reassembled in mere seconds (though the design is so good that your homemade tools wouldn't be much slower and should be a little cheaper as you point out).                                                                                                   FWIW, I took the das from Marx, "Das Kapital " .  .  .  (the) "Capital"  .  .  .  switching to English spelling of commissar with a C in the text.

Yes I actually have the "real tool" but I wanted to show the low/no buck way to do it

[seattle smitty]

Dang, I s'pose I should obtain the newer backing plates and other parts and do this right.  But all this little truck needs for the near term is just low-grade mechanical maintenance to address the malign effects of sitting out in the weeds for years:  disassemble, detail-clean, lube, reassemble, and bleed.  The linings should have as many years left in them as I do  .  .  .  although if I could install some zerks in my knees and maybe get a re-man spinal column from Rock Auto, I might look at things differently  .  .  .  .

[Charlie69]

I have had both knees replaced, best thing I have ever had done pain wise. On my back and neck I have ablation done (nerve burning) on an as needed basis.  This will help you with the pain if you can get it done.                                                                                                                  

[bottomwatcher]

It's raining in Maine today so you guys guilted me into adjusting my rear brakes. Anybody have a solution for replacing those rubber covers that cover the adjusting wheel other than duct tape?

[datzenmike]

Only from another truck. Try classifieds. Someone can mail you a set.

[Lockleaf]

Are you referring to these?

 

You can order "universal" ones in sets that can likely be made to work pretty well.  Dorman makes some, as one example.  https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-29000-Backing-Plate-Cover/dp/B000CZ3UIM

 

Also, complete drum hardware kits typically include new plugs as well, if you choose to go that direction.

[Crashtd420]

Ebay have the correct ones....

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234050971989

 

 

[seattle smitty]

Whoa, what were the chances of that!!!  Great find!!  Mine were salvageable, but i'm gonna order a pair as spares, essential parts.  Bottomwatcer, I reinstalled mine with silicone sealant around the edge in the interest of water-tightness, apparently necessary since my sliding adjusters had long-since stopped sliding.

[thisismatt]

51 minutes ago, seattle smitty said:

Whoa, what were the chances of that!!!  Great find!!  Mine were salvageable, but i'm gonna order a pair as spares, essential parts.  Bottomwatcer, I reinstalled mine with silicone sealant around the edge in the interest of water-tightness, apparently necessary since my sliding adjusters had long-since stopped sliding.

But the drums aren't water tight 😆

[seattle smitty]

Right, but if you look at these particular brakes, the adjusters slide in a slot in the backing plate and are held in the slot by a shim and retainer.  When new or freshly rebuilt all of the bits are assembled with high-temp brake grease. and the adjuster moves easily.  After a while, not so easily, with exposure to the elements  .  .  . which I wanted to at least minimize by helping out my old floppy rubber covers with some sealant.

[datzenmike]

Routine maintenance. You would normally be in there at least once a year adjusting the brakes, every 6 months would be even better. To keep them at optimum. That's when the adjuster and rubbing points would be lubed and greased. Self adjusters will save you the bother of adjusting, but again, once a year you should just give them a quick inspection including lubrication unless you noticed the truck pulling to one side or the pedal getting soft and check them sooner. 

[captain720]

I make a habit of inspecting all drums, brakes, suspension parts when I switch tires seasonally. Works great for keeping up on things and I live at the top of an ice mountain so studs are almost a necessity.