Upgrade factory or jbc manual rack

[gumby510]

Alright I'm trying to decide between upgrading my outer tie rods, idler arm bearings and steering box brace

 

Or

 

The jbc manual rack

 

So the jbc is far more expensive and labor intensive. So I guess im asking if having a manual rack is that much better (steering feel and input response) over a factory setup that uses heim joints, upgraded bearings and braces.

 

Thanks in advance

[datzenmike]

My impression of steering boxes is they always have some play or 'looseness' ... a slight sloppyness. Every R&P I've driven has had precise feel and instant response to input.  Icehouse has a 'conversion kit'.

[Draker]

With the rack conversion you'd also get a choice of ratios depending on your needs. I'd personally go with the rack, which has been on my list for some time. Maybe when I finally swap get started on the KA swap dime.

[gumby510]

2 hours ago, Draker said:

With the rack conversion you'd also get a choice of ratios depending on your needs. I'd personally go with the rack, which has been on my list for some time. Maybe when I finally swap get started on the KA swap dime.

Its been on my list for a few years now. Im staying L series and 1 issue ive had is finding a front sump oil pan and pickup. Well and theres the fact I have the t3 gtx2 control arm and tc rod setup and jcb states its not ideal.

[Draker]

That certainly adds to the complexity. Not sure on the front oil pan either.

[Dguy210]

59 minutes ago, Draker said:

That certainly adds to the complexity. Not sure on the front oil pan either.

Z20 is a front sump oil pan that fits an L block, bit of an issue you might run into with angle of the dangle between L and Z for the oil pickup due to the block angle difference. But it at least it would give you a starting point (I'm working on a Z22 into my 510 so been looking at this, keep trying to decide if I want to go LZ instead).

[gumby510]

22 hours ago, Dguy210 said:

Z20 is a front sump oil pan that fits an L block, bit of an issue you might run into with angle of the dangle between L and Z for the oil pickup due to the block angle difference. But it at least it would give you a starting point (I'm working on a Z22 into my 510 so been looking at this, keep trying to decide if I want to go LZ instead).

Z20 oil pan won't work.

Z series engines are tilted to the left side of vertical about 8 degrees.

L series engines are tilted 12 degrees to the right of vertical, so a difference of 18 degrees.

A Z oil pan on an L engine would see the right bottom side the lowest point on the car

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=34161&start=15

 

3rd to last post on the 2nd page

[Dguy210]

33 minutes ago, gumby510 said:

Z20 oil pan won't work.

Z series engines are tilted to the left side of vertical about 8 degrees.

L series engines are tilted 12 degrees to the right of vertical, so a difference of 18 degrees.

A Z oil pan on an L engine would see the right bottom side the lowest point on the car

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=34161&start=15

 

3rd to last post on the 2nd page

 

I've seen that thread before, hence my mentioning the angle difference and useful as a starting point.  Best solution to it was to cut and weld the pan to change the angle. I know at least one person did that with their 510, I think Brodster maybe?.

 

For stock parts only the Vanette and the 910 (LD20) have L series front sumps from what I could dig up, but not the easiest thing to get in North America.

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=L-series_Engine_Swap

 

Speculation follows:

 

Although looking at that 720 rear sump pan I wonder if you could cut the mounting flange off it or (a 521 L16 pan) flip the sump around and weld and patch it back on as then you are only at a difference of ~4 degrees. I guess the pickup might be an issue, probably would have to see how much of a difference it made or if that needed to be modded. I actually have a 521 L16 pan, 720 Z22 pan and front sump 200sx pan (two of these are on engines) I might do some mock ups here.

 

I wonder if you could also reangle the L block to that of the Z and use a Z transmission but I feel like you would run into some issues with the angle difference on the L head with respect to the carb and intakes, just guessing there though. 

[gumby510]

20 hours ago, Dguy210 said:

 

I've seen that thread before, hence my mentioning the angle difference and useful as a starting point.  Best solution to it was to cut and weld the pan to change the angle. I know at least one person did that with their 510, I think Brodster maybe?.

 

For stock parts only the Vanette and the 910 (LD20) have L series front sumps from what I could dig up, but not the easiest thing to get in North America.

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=L-series_Engine_Swap

 

Speculation follows:

 

Although looking at that 720 rear sump pan I wonder if you could cut the mounting flange off it or (a 521 L16 pan) flip the sump around and weld and patch it back on as then you are only at a difference of ~4 degrees. I guess the pickup might be an issue, probably would have to see how much of a difference it made or if that needed to be modded. I actually have a 521 L16 pan, 720 Z22 pan and front sump 200sx pan (two of these are on engines) I might do some mock ups here.

 

I wonder if you could also reangle the L block to that of the Z and use a Z transmission but I feel like you would run into some issues with the angle difference on the L head with respect to the carb and intakes, just guessing there though. 

I also considered cutting up a z pan, to change the engine tilt thats custom mounts and depending on the amount one might have modify the exhaust too. Im running a 280z wide 5 speed.

 

Dont get me wrong, I know the jbc setup is better without a doubt. Is it that much better to where it is worth all this extra work.

[Icehouse]

No feel comparison at all.  I have a 86 power rack with a zillion miles on it in one of my 510's that has stock tie rods and ball joints.  It feels tighter then any box car I've owned or driven.  Anyone who says the "band aids" will make the box feel the same is a liar.  Yeah it's a pain to keep an L with our kit.  Sam did it.  A 1980 510 oil pan and a header with a hug dent in it allowed it to work.  

[gumby510]

1 hour ago, Icehouse said:

No feel comparison at all.  I have a 86 power rack with a zillion miles on it in one of my 510's that has stock tie rods and ball joints.  It feels tighter then any box car I've owned or driven.  Anyone who says the "band aids" will make the box feel the same is a liar.  Yeah it's a pain to keep an L with our kit.  Sam did it.  A 1980 510 oil pan and a header with a hug dent in it allowed it to work.  

I have no doubt in what your saying. Not liking the sound of denting a header in, especially sense im having a custom one built. Where was the clearance needed? I can take that into consideration when I have the header built. Otherwise ill end up sticking with the vagueness of the steering box.

[Dguy210]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:35 PM, Icehouse said:

No feel comparison at all.  I have a 86 power rack with a zillion miles on it in one of my 510's that has stock tie rods and ball joints.  It feels tighter then any box car I've owned or driven.  Anyone who says the "band aids" will make the box feel the same is a liar.  Yeah it's a pain to keep an L with our kit.  Sam did it.  A 1980 510 oil pan and a header with a hug dent in it allowed it to work.  

Edit: is the 1980 510 an L20B or Z20? 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Dguy210

[Lockleaf]

I have a z22 in my 510.  I cut up the oil pan to get proper clearance.  Annoying but doable.  If you are curious to see what i did its in my "half pint" build thread, linked in my signature.

 

If you are trying to build a car fast enough to justify the expense of a custom built header, seems like keeping the steering box is a step in the wrong direction?

[Trophy24]

I have driven the manual steering box and the JBC rack and pinion cars. One of them before and after rack installation when I aligned it. There is no comparison in the way it drove guys. Totally worth doing if you want a good driving experience. 

[Draker]

2 hours ago, Trophy24 said:

I have driven the manual steering box and the JBC rack and pinion cars. One of them before and after rack installation when I aligned it. There is no comparison in the way it drove guys. Totally worth doing if you want a good driving experience. 

Which version and rack did you use?

[Trophy24]

My experience has been with the V2 and MR2 manual rack. Looking forward to upgrading my Bluebird with the V3 and RHD option 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Trophy24