Z22 manifold oddities

[frankendat]

Picked up a used z22 manifold that is/was covered in black "soot" for lack of a better term. Hit it with degreaser and a rag and it mostly swirls around. I have soaked it in degreaser and took it to the DIY car wash place; sprayed it with hot water and made a little progress, but if the manifold is handled, washing the soot off your hands is still  necessary. The best option has been paper towels, but it is slow and the damn stuff gets everywhere.

Is the a better way?

Also, this manifold has a type of "box" in the center, held together by 7 bolts. I unbolted and removed the top and found it completely filled with the soot, used a screwdriver to scrape most of it into the alley. 

 

What is this "box"? What is the purpose?

 

 

[datzenmike]

Intake??

 

Can't imaging what you have. Post a picture.

 

Has it been plasti-coated maybe?

[frankendat]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Intake??

 

Can't imaging what you have. Post a picture.

 

Has it been plasti-coated maybe?

A picture would be worth 1000, but I am having connection issues. Looking at the diagrams on Nissanpartsdeal, I think the "box" is the EGR passage, but mine is held with 7 screws and on the diagram it is held with 3 or four.The fact the passage was completely filled with "soot" could explain the abundance of the soot I have encountered not these parts. The valve that had me confused, I think is the IACV air regulator that someone busted the plastic off the front. The part is near the water temp sensor. Next to the water temp sensor there is a bolt that accepts a wire and I would speculate that is the output to the water temp gauge. The manifold is from an early 80's 200SX.

[frankendat]

Yikes, I called the thermostat the "water temp sensor". I need to proof read or get smarter (which ever is easier)

[datzenmike]

You should say exactly what Z22 manifold it is or from. I was thinking 720 and now lost down a dead end road.

 

This thing???????

 

 

[frankendat]

 

 

Here is a pre clean pic. The area in the middle is what I am questioning. When I removed the "cover", which is directly below the manifold in the picture, a mound of soot remained, like it was a jello mold. I didn't work on it today, but did the two days prior and have removed much black soot, in preparation for blasting. Last time I used the media blaster on old auto parts, grease and oil contaminated the media and the inside of the cabinet. A long blaster cabinet restoration followed, this time all must be clean clean clean.

I have been thinking about the part in the picture, It must be an intake, but if an intake, then why all the soot? Isn't soot a by product of engine combustion and better suited for the exhaust size?

Aa I said before, this manifold modification appears emission related. If so, the obvious solution would be to weld the holes inside it shut, assemble and forget it. But, I am curious, has anyone crafted this manifold anomaly into something beneficial?

 

[datzenmike]

I have never seen the like. That appears to be an EGR manifold on the bottom of a Z22E intake from an EFI 200sx car.

 

Yes if running rich some sooty exhaust would flow through there.

 

 

Do you have the head it came off??

You sure it's a Z22???

Car or truck engine?

 

[frankendat]

Thank you for responding Datzenmike pic of manifold after first cleaning run. Regarding the chamber in the middle (top is closed in this pic, a pic taken during the cleaning process, posted earlier in this thread, shows the center section chamber open.) The chamber, which I said is in the center, does look more like it is on the bottom (or is it the top?) It is the part bolted to the manifold that looks like Oklahoma. Do you think, based on it being filled to the top with black "soot" (carbon?) that this is an exhaust manifold and not an intake? I purchased it in a package parts deal from a 200sx guy, so your theory is very plausible. It was my understanding that this was an intake. I purchased the manifold and related parts to fuel inject my Z24.

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

That appears to be an EGR manifold on the bottom of a Z22E intake from an EFI 200sx car.

 

Yes if running rich some sooty exhaust would flow through there.

 

It's definitely an intake for an EFI Z series engine. Very hard to recognize.

 

 

This thing fits on the other side....

 

 

On 4/2/2021 at 4:13 PM, datzenmike said:

 

 

 

 

[frankendat]

Brilliant, that is the thing on the other side! I have a couple of those. I wasn't planning on a turbo, but inside the "Oklahoma Shaped Mystery Box" are holes that correspond with the cylinders. I think (which brings problems) It could work with a turbo, mill some steel to support Oklahoma and mount the turbo directly.  With some careful internal modification, to Oklahoma,  individual cylinder exhaust injection? A more effective way to maintain balance, between all cylinders in turbo application? Any thoughts?

 

Finally, I have spent my Saturday, wrestling with the the intake and exhaust springs without success. My problem is valve/valve spring removal, on a Nissan Z24.

.

Where I'm at: I have a Harbor Freight valve spring removal tool. The little "feet" on the removal tool kept slipping out of the spring, so I added a C-clamp, but do not clamp it tight. I tried placing the removal tool, low on the spring and high on the spring and at increments in between. In every position, I fished around, with a small standard screwdriver in the opening of the spring (created by the removal tool) but the "second" or "inner spring was in the way. Regardless, even with all my pecking, nothing was loose and nothing dislodged from the springs.

 

od

The FSM for the Z24, graciously provided earlier, lacks details on spring removal/installation. In fact, the FSM exploded diagrams list a couple individual valve/valve spring parts that I haven't seen, on my Z24. (I checked the FSM's from 1983.5 and 1986

 

To the Datsunites, where have I left the path? When I closely inspect an installed valve spring, I see a post surrounded by two half circles, aren't these the retainers? If the retainers are near the top of the spring, then why do the directions on the removal tool, call for low purchase on the spring? Where on the spring are these valve keepers located?

Thank you for your time,

[bottomwatcher]

I am guessing pcv crud not soot. Carbs run gas through the manifold keeping it clean. Fuel injection. Just pcv vapors that coat the manifold and clog idle air control valve. Clean with gasoline like nature intended.

[datzenmike]

It's exhaust, gasoline from carburetor or EFI does not pass through there to keep it washed clean. Even EFI will run rich on start up or if there is a failure in the system forcing a rich 'limp home mode'. All manner of exhaust will collect in there.

 

Close it up and a disconnected PCV valve will seal it, or seal all the holes. You can't run any turbo pressure through there because it has to pass through the throttle plate at some point, and it's on the front of the top part that I posted.

 

 

[frankendat]

15 hours ago, datzenmike said:

It's exhaust, gasoline from carburetor or EFI does not pass through there to keep it washed clean. Even EFI will run rich on start up or if there is a failure in the system forcing a rich 'limp home mode'. All manner of exhaust will collect in there.

 

Close it up and a disconnected PCV valve will seal it, or seal all the holes. You can't run any turbo pressure through there because it has to pass through the throttle plate at some point, and it's on the front of the top part that I posted.

 

 

You chose one of the videos, that I used for initial understanding.It has been the better part of 2 days, sorting this head. In the unlikely event that someone else encounters difficulty removing the valve spring retainer clips, here is where I went wrong. After cranking down the valve remover tool (All the way) and positioning a socket under the valve you are working on (see video for demonstration). The retainer clips and the end of the valve will poke up, just a little, through the spring cap. You may find, as I did, that it is very, very, difficult to remove the retainers, with only a sliver of retainer exposed. To avoid this complication and save hours of frustration, PUSH DOWN AND HOLD the valve spring compressor, after it has compressed the valve springs, this exposes enough or the retainer clips to be fished by a magnet and speeds up the process significantly.

I really cranked on my harbor freight valve spring compressor and it is a little bent, but still functional. I didn't like the amount of pressure needed for this to work and attempted to remain as safe as possible, when valve springs were compressed. As I cranked on the valve spring compressor, I placed a C-Clamp on the "legs" that push into the springs and turned for a snug fit. Make sure the C-Clamp has space to move as you crank on the valve spring compressor. There are some videos that claim, bending the "foot" up, at the end of the valve spring compressor legs, is sufficient to avoid unintended spring release. The C-Clamp was enough protection for me.

[datzenmike]

I have a Mac extendable magnet for fishing sockets that have rolled under vehicles to 'collect' the keepers.

 

I also notched the end of a large C clamp to fit over the valve spring. It clamps the valve big end and compresses the spring but there is enough room to get at the keepers.

[frankendat]

6 hours ago, datzenmike said:

I have a Mac extendable magnet for fishing sockets that have rolled under vehicles to 'collect' the keepers.

 

I also notched the end of a large C clamp to fit over the valve spring. It clamps the valve big end and compresses the spring but there is enough room to get at the keepers.

I like the idea of a big C-clamp, over the harbor freight tool. While the tool did the job, I kept running half assed and likely incorrect mathematical formulas in my head, attempting to calculate the pounds of force, generating on that spring and the unpleasantness that would follow if it broke free, as I was hovering around it, attempting to fish out the keepers. But, all in the name of learning Datsuns/Nissan, if it were easy, then everyone would do it.

[datzenmike]

110 pound-ish give or take. Had a '61 Pontiac six cylinder spring wizz past my ear. I was 13? my neighbor used two hammer handles to push down on the retainer while I fished the keepers out. From the bench it hit the ceiling floor ceiling floor ceiling and bounced into the corner of the basement.

[frankendat]

Quick points I missed on valve spring removal to spare someone assache. By the time it came down to the last springs, I developed a system that dropped time for spring removal, out of the hours and into the quarter hours. First, get a small round file and make a spring sized curve in the joint (leg/foot joint) of each leg of the Harbor Freight valve spring remover tool.(That gave me confidence to ditch the C-clamp) Next get a screwdriver or chisel with a very fine edge; use it to press(or hammer) into the spring one coil from the bottom. (I considered going under the bottom of the spring, but didn't want to damage those ultra thin washers) Pry open the spring the screwdriver and shove in the longer remover tool leg. The goal is to hear or feel the spring "pop" into the groove you filed in the leg of the tool.

Before you snap in the second foot and get to cranking, make sure that the tool and the spring are lined up. The biggest time eating problem, for me, doing this solo was not realizing the importance of not compressing the spring on any type of angle. If one side of the spring, when compressed, is tight and the other side has gaps between the rungs, the valve stem binds and the retainers only appear as silvers; the silvers will mock you and your magnet, as you properly push down on the tool and attempt to fish them out. BUT' if the tool and spring are compressed aligned, which often requires, in addition to making sure the feet are even and "square",  rotating the tool and pushing down at different locations on the circumference, to determine where it pushes down with least resistance, THEN the tool will push down that extra little bit and the retaining clips almost jump out on your magnet

[frankendat]

Today must be a daily double, I have been scavenging parts off other heads to complete my own and might be at the end of the road. I couldn't locate additional parts to harvest on the Nissanpartsdeals diagrams for the Z24. I am most concerned about the bottom valve seat. Is this part easily removable? If so, I would take it for spares. The metal is soft and prying it out would damage the piece. If it is a viable acquisition, then how it removed undamaged?

 

A final note, are there any other items salvageable from this head? (I already have bronze valve guides and have collected both thin washers)

 

Thank you

On 4/19/2021 at 3:42 PM, datzenmike said:

110 pound-ish give or take. Had a '61 Pontiac six cylinder spring wizz past my ear. I was 13? my neighbor used two hammer handles to push down on the retainer while I fished the keepers out. From the bench it hit the ceiling floor ceiling floor ceiling and bounced into the corner of the basement.

[datzenmike]

 There's nothing on there that will wear out on your head, other than if you loose a part.

[frankendat]

6 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 There's nothing on there that will wear out on your head, other than if you loose a part.

Outstanding, I was curious about the bottom valve springs seats primarily, the head receiving these parts has the bottom valve spring seats, just like this one.  If the bottom valve spring seat is removable, i would have spares.

 

Speaking of seats, I acquired new valve seats and bronze valve guides. Do you know any tricks on removal  or replacement? There is YouTube on this subject, but not specifically for the Z24. According to the internet a wood block, chisel, and hammer gets the job done, I am skeptical. That sounds like a great method to screw up an aluminum head.

Final question, the two big hex heads in the middle  "floor" of the head. What can you tell me about them?

Thank you

[frankendat]

On 4/21/2021 at 7:01 AM, datzenmike said:

 There's nothing on there that will wear out on your head, other than if you loose a part.

Back in the saddle, after a few weeks away for work (I need to find away to fund my projects without interruption with this work stuff) Any thoughts on my questions on April 21st?

In other news, RockAuto is having some type of sale. I didn't research this and may have been suckered by the "sale", but prices seem lower.

 

Here is what I picked up, I have only seen these prices for generic parts, not name brands

1984 NISSAN 720 PICKUP 2.4L L4
FEL-PRO	9210PT1	Cylinder Head Gasket Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty	$ 8.39	$ 0.00	1	$ 8.39
FEL-PRO	OS20042C	Oil Pan Gasket Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty	$ 2.44	$ 0.00	1	$ 2.44
FEL-PRO	VS50354R	Valve Cover Gasket Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty	$ 2.86	$ 0.00	1	$ 2.86
FEL-PRO	MS90978	Exhaust Manifold Gasket Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty	$ 2.06	$ 0.00	1	$ 2.06
GK INDUSTRIES	6015 (6015:8)	Crankcase Breather Element Wholesaler Closeout - Private Label Pkg. - 30 Day Warranty	$ 1.86	$ 0.00	1	$ 1.86
PREMIUM GUARD	PF1124	Fuel Filter Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty	$ 2.40	$ 0.00	1	$ 2.40
ROL GASKETS	MS3898	Exhaust Manifold Gasket Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty	$ 2.21	$ 0.00	1	$ 2.21
Shipping	Ground					$ 9.99
Tax						$ 1.33
Order Total						$ 33.54

[datzenmike]

On 4/21/2021 at 12:20 PM, frankendat said:

 

Final question, the two big hex heads in the middle  "floor" of the head. What can you tell me about them?

Thank you

 

Probably for removal of the internal casting sand. The holes are tapped and plugged as this is likely the cooling system now.