banzai510(hainz) Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 https://www.classiccarperformance.com/collections/britishstarters-com/products/datsun-240z-260z-280z-high-torque-starter I got this starter and installed it and find out the Allen cap screw hit the flywheels. On a 521 I had to rotate the starter so the Motor was up and the selinoid down as the 521 the clutch hose would hit the motor , so I turn it but then the selinoid is down but got the cables on. I started to truck and and it barely turned thinking maybe battery weak Cables bad ect. I find a Nissan Rebuilt unit in a box I got years ago and Bam starterd right up. I took this starter out and see that the 1 of the cap screws was hitting the flywheels binding the motor. lots of shavings. I DONT KNOW WHY THE Z CAR FLYWHEELS WOULD BE DIFFERENT THAN A L16 FLYWHEEL??????????? also I notice the this New starter and the orginal use a 9 tooth pinion. I have a a HI Torq IMI 202 sold thru TSI Automotive , I think looks like the same sold thru Troy Ermish which is a 11 tooth gear. Does this matter spacing looks close to the same for the teeth to go into??? I haven't used the IMI 202 starter yet as I was saving it for the 510. I wanted to a Denso unit in the 521 but size contraints and also the seliniod in in line with the hole makes it a little harder to get cables to stretch. I have a Nissan Gear reduction(280zx 9 tooth) I bought from Nissan and even those don't seem to be all that great. I had the selinoid replaced already and just wonder if the stater rebuilders just use Chinese selinoids as it didn't last all to long anyways even the Nissan Factory rebuild. there is also another company WOSP that has looks like a IMI 202 clone. that is also a 11 tooth unit input??? 2 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Spins your motor faster at start up. Less Taxing on your Battery - Requires ½ the cranking amps of your old starter. I call bullshit on these claims. First of all you can't get something for nothing... 1/2 the cranking amps and faster cranking???? Gear reduction is the same as replacing your 3.90 with a 4.11 differential. Your wheels don't turn faster they turn slower but with more torque. (less effort) I have a gear reduction starter on my Datsun and it turns no faster and probably slower than a regular one. In fact it's from an L24 Maxima. You would think on a much smaller L20B it would spin faster, but it doesn't. Gears allow the starter to effectively twist the engine harder, not faster, which is an advantage if higher compression or larger displacement. It also helps if cold and the battery is low on charge. 2 Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) I like the Denso selinoids better/ That's why I want one of these starters they are not faster than the standard starter. I figured that out years ago smaller and lighter is good. and Most are BRAND NEW . not rebuild 25times in the last 40yrs. that why I wanted one of these Even the Nissan Boxed from Dealer 280zx GR one which is still a rebuild lasted no longer than a Vatozone/O rileys starter I have had good reports on The TSI IMI HI TORQs but don't know why they 11 tooth instead of the stardard 9 tooth anybody???? Edited January 22, 2021 by banzai510(hainz) 2 Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Is this the same started you told me to get instead of Troys? 1 Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) Yes Troys but on his photo on his website its pictured in a 510. 510s have more room Defdes on the 510 realm got one years ago and said good things But got it from TSI Automotive which is a IMI HiTorq 202 Im going to get a selinoid for my 280zx GR unit but RockAuto is like 50$ fuck it better be made in Japan!!!!! Edited January 22, 2021 by banzai510(hainz) 1 Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, datzenmike said: Spins your motor faster at start up. Less Taxing on your Battery - Requires ½ the cranking amps of your old starter. I call bullshit on these claims. First of all you can't get something for nothing... 1/2 the cranking amps and faster cranking???? One of the parameters of DC motors is called torque constant. It’s determined by the size of the motor and the windings. So yes, you can have speed and more torque at the same time. 1 Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Figure have more response to this I think Daniel on herel Had a selinoid trick using a Ford relay to bypass the crappy one on the starter. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Doesn't the Nissan solenoid also push a lever that pushes the star wheel out to engage the ring gear??? 1 Quote Link to comment
mrbigtanker Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 The Troy Ermish one works in 521's as well. I have 3 of them. It also bolts right up to a FJ20 as well. 1 Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) Ok Thanks. Yes Mike the selinoid pushes the so that other idea is not as good but one uses a jumper to the selinoid tab to use it to push the gear out but the electrical contack are worn so the motor don't spin but use a Ford relay one and bypass that. However one needs to move the Power to feed to fusebox to the new Ford relay otherwise you wont get power. (just forget that idea. well I sent that starter back and hope they give me some money back but wont Bank on it. As it amazing now they don't anwser my emails NOW. I have a spare Nissan rebuid sold thru the dealer 280zx GR that the selinoid is bad. They don't seem to last long either. I will get a new selinoid and swap it out https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Powermaster-601-Replacement-Solenoid-Hitachi-Style,335462.html Edited January 25, 2021 by banzai510(hainz) 1 Quote Link to comment
thisismatt Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 It's my understanding that the Ford relay/solenoid is only to give better, direct power to the starter solenoid, not replace it, rather than having the starter solenoid current pass through your ignition switch. This gives the starter solenoid more power to throw the pinion gear and more force on the starter contacts. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, banzai510(hainz) said: well I sent that starter back and hope they give me some money back but wont Bank on it. As it amazing now they don't anwser my emails NOW. They lost s customer over a $200 transaction. Lame... I think most of those other starters have countersunk holes in the adapter plate where the socket head screws can hide. Would have been easy enough to do yourself, but you shouldn't have to modify parts that are supposed to fit. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) yeah but said fit a Z ca 240 260 280 so I thought it would work. a Z flywheel is really no different in Overall dia. 1 hour ago, thisismatt said: It's my understanding that the Ford relay/solenoid is only to give better, direct power to the starter solenoid, not replace it, rather than having the starter solenoid current pass through your ignition switch. This gives the starter solenoid more power to throw the pinion gear and more force on the starter contacts. True. matter of fact they have that on there instructions also to use the orginal selinoid Edited January 25, 2021 by banzai510(hainz) Quote Link to comment
yenpit Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 The casting of the flywheel, between an L20B & Z is different, but the overall outer diameter is the same. I have sold a handful of Z flywheels to L20B guys, cuz they are lighter, never had a complaint. I have never compared an L16 flywheel to an L20B/Z car, simply because you can't interchange them cuz 5bolt vs 6bolt. I have installed the 280ZX gear reduction starters on 510 L16 L18 L20B & Z car, but have NOT on my 521 L16. My 521 is about to get an L20B, but that is a few weeks out before I start on it. Sorry, no definitive answer, but my facts above clarifies SOME things! 🙄 Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 280zx Gear reduction starter fits fine on a 521. the selinoid is out of the way and up. Be honest never new of any real difference in starting On the Denso starters it seems the selinoid is where the motor would be on a Hithachi so hooking up the wire length could be a issue and on 521s the frame and side. Either hangs low or you reverse it so motor is up. Wanted to see Bigtanker if he had photos of the TroyErmish starter on his 521. also those are 11 t instead of standard 9 tooth. spacing looks the same thou. I just know the Denso starters last longer!!! thank for the Z car flywheel casting differences. Edited January 25, 2021 by banzai510(hainz) Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Z car six cylinder engines have more reciprocating crankshaft mass so flywheels can be lighter for the stored kinetic energy. Probably in the 21 pound range. I've been running a Maxima hear reduction starter forever in my 620 and it's now been in my 710 fro 10 years. Gear reduction starters sound totally different that direct drive ones. 1 Quote Link to comment
yenpit Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 On 1/25/2021 at 12:50 PM, banzai510(hainz) said: 280zx Gear reduction starter fits fine on a 521. the selinoid is out of the way and up. Be honest never new of any real difference in starting On the Denso starters it seems the selinoid is where the motor would be on a Hithachi so hooking up the wire length could be a issue and on 521s the frame and side. Either hangs low or you reverse it so motor is up. Wanted to see Bigtanker if he had photos of the TroyErmish starter on his 521. also those are 11 t instead of standard 9 tooth. spacing looks the same thou. I just know the Denso starters last longer!!! thank for the Z car flywheel casting differences. Hainz, I think the 280ZX gear reduction starter is a "torque" improvement, not a spinning speed increase......?? We use them on every high compression vintage race engine, spin just fine. FYI we tried the cheap rebuilds of the ZX starter, had them all eventually fail, had one actually fall apart............we ONLY use NAPA Wilson brand part #91-25-1012. This is THE part # to request, as it is a "commercial" application (but same starter!), do not think it is listed under Datsun/Nissan 280ZX! Simply a high quality rebuilt unit! We have only had one eventual failure, but the brutality of a full race engine will do that! 😎 1 Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) Yenpit https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Powermaster-601-Replacement-Solenoid-Hitachi-Style,335462.html I bought this selinoid and will see if it fits when I get it. to fix a spare 280ZX stater I have that's was sold thru Nissan. yeah my 521 is a local daily drive and I hit that starter 10 times a day. No wonder the selinoids don't last long/ I don't get why its a sealed unit where one cant repair them like a Denso unit and use ball bearings Thanks for the part number. the "Tilton Super Starters" are pretty much a 280zx starter in the first place. Wonder if they can rebuild them???????????????? Yenpit can you send a link. I put that part number in the Napa lookup and don't show a STARTER. all i got was other stuff and then put in 81 280zx and got this https://www.napaonline.com/en/search/alternators-starters/starters-solenoids-related-parts/auto-parts/datsun/280zx/1981?isBackButtonEnabled=true Edited January 27, 2021 by banzai510(hainz) Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 found this https://wilsonautoelectric.com/Shared/PartSearch Quote Link to comment
yenpit Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 3 hours ago, banzai510(hainz) said: found this https://wilsonautoelectric.com/Shared/PartSearch Part #91-25-1012 is it. Again, just a high quality rebuilt unit that we found & is the ONLY unit we will run now! Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, yenpit said: Part #91-25-1012 is it. Again, just a high quality rebuilt unit that we found & is the ONLY unit we will run now! This it? Quote Link to comment
yenpit Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 12 minutes ago, d.p said: This it? Yup that is the one! Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 yeah be nice to find a link to BUY and click with the price quote Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 Yeah @yenpit how and where do you buy these mfers? Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, d.p said: This it? Made in Canada? That shit probably comes with a side of Mike’s poutine. DP, where did you find that? Looks like Pep Boys near me is a distributor. I wonder what the difference is between this one and the standard 91-25-1003. Edited January 27, 2021 by mainer311 Quote Link to comment
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