84 720 Starter Issues

[Buckner99]

This is a issue ive been dealing with for quite a while now. Ive gone through 4 different starters. went cheap first, and decided to get a really good quality Gear Reducted starter. Sometimes it'll start fine (everything is timed accordingly by a timing light, and I have a brand new carb.) But the times it doesn't start up good, the starter will spin but bendix wont push out(atleast thats what it sounds like, I cant see inside the bellhousing) Anyway, ever since I had this truck the trigger wire that goes to the female spade connector on the starter always seems to be loose. Ive went through 4 different spades trying to get it to stay on there, I dont necessarily know if this would pose a problem, but ive ran a ground straight to the starter from the batter aswell as it getting ground from the bellhousing. I am getting very irritated by this because I just want it to work right. So if anyone has any suggestions on what it could be that would be very greatly appreciated. The flywheel looks fine, none of the teeth are chewed up. the starter is tight and sits flush up against the bellhousing. Ive done everything I could possibly do and checked everything. the only issue is the trigger wire. I think Im just going to void the warranty of the starter and Solder the wire onto the Spade connector thats on the starter. Thank you. 

[bananahamuck]

Are you positive both your positive and negative cables are not bad??  Looks can be deceiving... Have you had your battery tested ? 

     If starter spins up every time you turn key to start , but doesn’t engage ,, its not that spade connection. 

 Having  12 volts in battery doesn’t mean it will make starter actually work . 
 

 

.

Edited January 13, 2021 by bananahamuck

[Logical1]

X2 what bananahamuck said, Make sure your main battery cables are in good shape (not old as shit and corroded inside) and the ends are clean and tight. Both the battery terminals and the ring lugs that connect to the starter should be scrubbed down and made fresh. I cannot remember how many peoples vehicles I have fixed due to poor electrical connections! 

[bottomwatcher]

Yep. 90 percent of the time it is a bad ground. You said you put in a new ground but was it new wire? Rather than fuck around with this pull the (starter  your good at this now) and take it to autozone or whoever is nearby and does the free starter test. Otherwise you can do it yourself with jumper cables but why not have someone who does it every day on a dedicated machine and its free.

[Buckner99]

10 minutes ago, bottomwatcher said:

Yep. 90 percent of the time it is a bad ground. You said you put in a new ground but was it new wire? Rather than fuck around with this pull the (starter  your good at this now) and take it to autozone or whoever is nearby and does the free starter test. Otherwise you can do it yourself with jumper cables but why not have someone who does it every day on a dedicated machine and its free.

Brand new wire with wire loom from the battery straight to the starter bolt. Sometimes it starts right up sometimes it acts up. Maybe it’s a flywheel issue. 

[Buckner99]

2 hours ago, Logical1 said:

X2 what bananahamuck said, Make sure your main battery cables are in good shape (not old as shit and corroded inside) and the ends are clean and tight. Both the battery terminals and the ring lugs that connect to the starter should be scrubbed down and made fresh. I cannot remember how many peoples vehicles I have fixed due to poor electrical connections! 

It’s brand new and all clean

[banzai510(hainz)]

Im doing a wild guess on this one

get a wire go from the positive battery to the selinoid   this will eliminate the key inside and give it a good 12volts and hopefull it throws the selinoid farther in before it engaes the motor.

Key is you said it was multiple starters

 

I had this issue but was the selinoid just clicking then I added a HOT start relay(a ford selinoid) and it worked right up until a 3 days ago and my Vatozone starter is bad again!!!!!!

 

 

edit what I said since you have a Z series motor and it uses a different starter set up I cant vounch for anything as I work on one before and its hard to get to and the selinoid wire set up is different. those have a starter relay in the system already I believe as I worked on one. Maybe they could be weak and you could swap one out as its just a blk headlamp relay. or bypss it by going to the battery as I mentioned.

Edited January 13, 2021 by banzai510(hainz)

[datzenmike]

Pull the start wire off and put a meter on it, turn key to start. My 710 sedan read 7 volts, should be what ever the battery is with engine off... 12.6 fully charged but anything is better than 7. It would sometimes just whirrrr and not turn the engine 3- 4 times then catch. Put a hot start relay in that sends 12v directly to the starter. I never had a problem after. My current 710 wagon had one on it too.

[Buckner99]

1 minute ago, datzenmike said:

Pull the start wire off and put a meter on it, turn key to start. My 710 sedan read 7 volts, should be what ever the battery is with engine off... 12.6 fully charged but anything is better than 7. It would sometimes just whirrrr and not turn the engine 3- 4 times then catch. Put a hot start relay in that sends 12v directly to the starter. I never had a problem after. My current 710 wagon had one on it too.

Definitely going to do this. 

[datzenmike]

Otherwise power from the battery travels 7-8 feet to the ignition switch then about the same back to the starter and through 3 to 5 connectors on thin old wire. No doubt there's a voltage drop.

[Buckner99]

7 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Otherwise power from the battery travels 7-8 feet to the ignition switch then about the same back to the starter and through 3 to 5 connectors on thin old wire. No doubt there's a voltage drop.

Now that I think about it that makes sense. So what does a hot start relay inquire? Pressing another button to start the truck? How do I wire it in? Eliminate the trigger wire 

[datzenmike]

You use the weak start signal to turn a relay on that connects battery directly to the starter terminal.

 

 

[Buckner99]

27 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

You use the weak start signal to turn a relay on that connects battery directly to the starter terminal.

 

 

Thank you

[Buckner99]

9 hours ago, datzenmike said:

You use the weak start signal to turn a relay on that connects battery directly to the starter terminal.

 

 

So I put the relay in. From the relay to the starter is my problem. The spade connector on the starter still likes to fall off and get loose. I’ve squeezed it before putting it back in multiple times , and it still wants to work it’s way off causing a bad connection. I think I’m going to solder it. I can’t think of any other way to keep it tight.. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

you squeeze it whoile ots off the tab then slide on?

[Buckner99]

14 minutes ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

you squeeze it whoile ots off the tab then slide on?

Yes. Done it multiple times.. 

[datzenmike]

Get another push on connector and crimp it on. The old one may have over heated and lost it's temper.

 

Did you check the start voltage. Cause it it's low, a new connector, while a good idea, won't fix the problem.