B210 L20b swap questions

[charolastra]

Hi everyone I am planning to swap a l20b on my b210. My question is can I change the engine and use the same transmission? I live in Chicago and there are not many parts for datsun and it is difficult to find a 5 speed transmission

[Macdrone]

no and yes depending.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Macdrone

[datzenmike]

A four speed is fine. Five speeds are more useful if you drive on the highway a lot. All car L20Bs came with a 63 series four speed similar to the old 510. Truck L20Bs came with a longer 71B transmission used in the 6 cylinder cars so it's more rugged. I would get a 71B 4 speed if that's easier and shorten the driveshaft, then just keep my eyes open for a 71B 5 speed and it will literally 'drop right in'. If only 63 series 4 speeds are around this will do and again you can search for a 71B 5 speed while you enjoy driving it around. You will have to shorten the driveshaft for this.

[iceman510]

Is part of your question whether or not the original B210 trans will fit to an L20B?  I assume an A series trans and engine is the original?  If so, I don't believe A series trans will fit an L block.

 

I have a number of 510 L series 4 speeds available if you just need an operational transmission to get the vehicle working.  I would give you one of them if interested.  I am in Michigan.

[charolastra]

My car is a B210 with A14 and the 4 speeds.

Iceman yes, that was my question, if I can swap my L20b onto my B210 and use the A series 4 speed trans and stock A series driveshaft

And how much you want for the trans? 

[datzenmike]

I think you said it wrong but I understand you. L series engine and transmission. The 510 4 speed is 26" long so measure your A series 4 speed I bet it's the same and if so you may not need to modify it for length. You probably will need to modify the transmission mount on the cross member.

 

What is the L20B out of????

[iceman510]

1 hour ago, charolastra said:

And how much you want for the trans? 

 

Free if you want to come get it.  I pass through Chitown occasionally, but with all this Covid crap I am not going that way soon.

[iceman510]

1 hour ago, charolastra said:

if I can swap my L20b onto my B210 and use the A series 4 speed trans and stock A series driveshaft

 

I believe A series trans will not bolt to the L series block.  Can any A series guys confirm?

 

Not sure if the drive shaft fits the trans output, but as Mike noted if the length is the same you may be able to use the stock driveshaft.

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by iceman510
update/correction

[Dguy210]

No A series stuff will fit.*

 

A few people have done this swap. You are adding weight and not picking up that much extra horsepower (it does work nicely but may be more effort than the OP wants). You can build up the L20b or course but it might be better to skip the intermediate steps and go straight to SR20 or CA18 especially given the location and difficulty in finding parts.

 

I would suggest unless you have quite a bit of experience with engine swaps that you try getting a Weber carb to replace the stock carb first. 

 

Do you know how to weld? Do you have experience with engine swaps and such? THIS WILL NOT BE A BOLT IN SETUP

 

At a bare minimum you will need an L20b, a L16 510 midsump oil pan and pickup, L series transmission, a 510 sedan driveshaft, and the ability to modify the B210 crossmember or fabricate some new engine mounts/adaptors. 

 

I would also strongly suggest changing out the H150 differential as you will likely very quickly break it with the L20b. Depending on what model B210 you have this may be easier or harder.  Hatchback is pretty easy to swap to a H190 diff out of a 510 wagon, where as the sedan will require reworking the shock mounts and welding. Either model will also require modifying up a new e-brake also. With the longer pumpkin of the diff you will need to shorten the driveshaft some.

 

If you use the short L series transmission (~26-27) with the stock differential it will fit a stock 510 sedan driveshaft but the differential will be a timebomb unless you drive very gingerly.

 

Of course if you want to just throw money at the problem much can be done but not quickly or cheaply otherwise. 

 

 

*yes there are some interchange and exceptions but keeping it simple and what OP will actually be able to source.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Dguy210

[Dguy210]

16 minutes ago, iceman510 said:

 

I believe A series trans will not bolt to the L series block.  Can any A series guys confirm?

 

Not sure if the drive shaft fits the trans output, but as Mike noted if the length is the same you may be able to use the stock driveshaft.

 

A series and L series stuff do not bolt up.  There is one exception in being able to swap out front transmission casings on the 63A dogleg 5spd but you still need to account for the smaller pilot bearing shaft and the A series version of that transmission is worth more than the L series anyways.

[charolastra]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

I think you said it wrong but I understand you. L series engine and transmission. The 510 4 speed is 26" long so measure your A series 4 speed I bet it's the same and if so you may not need to modify it for length. You probably will need to modify the transmission mount on the cross member.

 

What is the L20B out of????

the owner doesn't remember what car it was

so I'm not really sure.

 

[charolastra]

40 minutes ago, iceman510 said:

 

Free if you want to come get it.  I pass through Chitown occasionally, but with all this Covid crap I am not going that way soon.

Awesome please let me know, I wish I can go and pick up the trans but I work at UPS and right now we are really busy, where do you live anyway?

[charolastra]

58 minutes ago, Dguy210 said:

No A series stuff will fit.*

 

A few people have done this swap. You are adding weight and not picking up that much extra horsepower (it does work nicely but may be more effort than the OP wants). You can build up the L20b or course but it might be better to skip the intermediate steps and go straight to SR20 or CA18 especially given the location and difficulty in finding parts.

 

I would suggest unless you have quite a bit of experience with engine swaps that you try getting a Weber carb to replace the stock carb first. 

 

Do you know how to weld? Do you have experience with engine swaps and such? THIS WILL NOT BE A BOLT IN SETUP

 

At a bare minimum you will need an L20b, a L16 510 midsump oil pan and pickup, L series transmission, a 510 sedan driveshaft, and the ability to modify the B210 crossmember or fabricate some new engine mounts/adaptors. 

 

I would also strongly suggest changing out the H150 differential as you will likely very quickly break it with the L20b. Depending on what model B210 you have this may be easier or harder.  Hatchback is pretty easy to swap to a H190 diff out of a 510 wagon, where as the sedan will require reworking the shock mounts and welding. Either model will also require modifying up a new e-brake also. With the longer pumpkin of the diff you will need to shorten the driveshaft some.

 

If you use the short L series transmission (~26-27) with the stock differential it will fit a stock 510 sedan driveshaft but the differential will be a timebomb unless you drive very gingerly.

 

Of course if you want to just throw money at the problem much can be done but not quickly or cheaply otherwise. 

 

 

*yes there are some interchange and exceptions but keeping it simple and what OP will actually be able to source.

I have no experience with engine swaps or welding skill. There's a guy who's gonna help me with this project.

Sr20's are expensive in Chicago area,

The reason that I want a L20B swap it's because it was cheap and I have 3 44phh Mikunis collecting dust. Also I want to order a street cam and a side draft manifold and few more things to build a street engine

[Dguy210]

17 minutes ago, charolastra said:

I have no experience with engine swaps or welding skill. There's a guy who's gonna help me with this project.

Sr20's are expensive in Chicago area,

The reason that I want a L20B swap it's because it was cheap and I have 3 44phh Mikunis collecting dust. Also I want to order a street cam and a side draft manifold and few more things to build a street engine

 

I would strongly suggest a couple of things.

1. swap to a weber on the car you have now, it is great upgrade and really helps with drivability.

2. 280ZX front strut swaps, bigger brakes are a good upgrade.

3. Gather all the parts you need before pulling your running car apart. Even in areas where those parts were plentiful they are getting harder to locate or more expensive.

4. This project will not be cheap unless you get lucky, several of the needed parts are very desirable and command a premium.

5. Welding is an invaluable skill and you can get into it for not too much.

6. Realize this is a bit of a big undertaking, it would likely be cheaper in the long run to just buy another vehicle that is already swapped they way you want, i.e., a 510 or such.

7. No matter what anyone says a 510 crossmember is not a direct bolt in to run an L series in a B210. The swaps that have been successful rework the B210 engine mounts as the engine ends up sitting more forward than the 510 crossmember would place it. 

8. As the B210 is a manual you may need to widen the transmission tunnel depending on what transmission you cram in there.

9. Your sidedrafts will likely not fit without some mods to the air horns or some creative rearranging. The B210 brake booster tends to get in the way. People have come up with a few solutions but they all have issues.

10. An L20B swap will not be cheap, you may just spread the spending out over a much longer period of time. Double the cost of what you think it will cost and you will probably still be under what it will actually be.

11. Come up with a contingency plan if your friend helping you backs out or is unavailable. You don't want your car pulled apart for years at a time.

 

 

I'm not trying to be negative here, just many of us have seen postings about various engine swaps that eventually end up with a hacked up non-running car being sold later when it goes nowhere and after lots of time and money was spent. If the car runs now I would suggest driving it and enjoying it. Build the skills, maybe pickup another of the same model as a shell or non-runner to do the swap on while you learn.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Dguy210

[charolastra]

14 minutes ago, Dguy210 said:

 

I would strongly suggest a couple of things.

1. swap to a weber on the car you have now, it is great upgrade and really helps with drivability.

2. 280ZX front strut swaps, bigger brakes are a good upgrade.

3. Gather all the parts you need before pulling your running car apart. Even in areas where those parts were plentiful they are getting harder to locate or more expensive.

4. This project will not be cheap unless you get lucky, several of the needed parts are very desirable and command a premium.

5. Welding is an invaluable skill and you can get into it for not too much.

6. Realize this is a bit of a big undertaking, it would likely be cheaper in the long run to just buy another vehicle that is already swapped they way you want, i.e., a 510 or such.

7. No matter what anyone says a 510 crossmember is not a direct bolt in to run an L series in a B210. The swaps that have been successful rework the B210 engine mounts as the engine ends up sitting more forward than the 510 crossmember would place it. 

8. As the B210 is a manual you may need to widen the transmission tunnel depending on what transmission you cram in there.

9. Your sidedrafts will likely not fit without some mods to the air horns or some creative rearranging. The B210 brake booster tends to get in the way. People have come up with a few solutions but they all have issues.

10. An L20B swap will not be cheap, you may just spread the spending out over a much longer period of time. Double the cost of what you think it will cost and you will probably still be under what it will actually be.

11. Come up with a contingency plan if your friend helping you backs out or is unavailable. You don't want your car pulled apart for years at a time.

 

 

I'm not trying to be negative here, just many of us have seen postings about various engine swaps that eventually end up with a hacked up non-running car being sold later when it goes nowhere and after lots of time and money was spent. If the car runs now I would suggest driving it and enjoying it. Build the skills, maybe pickup another of the same model as a shell or non-runner to do the swap on while you learn.

Already swap the 280zx struts.

Thanks for the advice man

[charolastra]

21 minutes ago, Dguy210 said:

 

I would strongly suggest a couple of things.

1. swap to a weber on the car you have now, it is great upgrade and really helps with drivability.

2. 280ZX front strut swaps, bigger brakes are a good upgrade.

3. Gather all the parts you need before pulling your running car apart. Even in areas where those parts were plentiful they are getting harder to locate or more expensive.

4. This project will not be cheap unless you get lucky, several of the needed parts are very desirable and command a premium.

5. Welding is an invaluable skill and you can get into it for not too much.

6. Realize this is a bit of a big undertaking, it would likely be cheaper in the long run to just buy another vehicle that is already swapped they way you want, i.e., a 510 or such.

7. No matter what anyone says a 510 crossmember is not a direct bolt in to run an L series in a B210. The swaps that have been successful rework the B210 engine mounts as the engine ends up sitting more forward than the 510 crossmember would place it. 

8. As the B210 is a manual you may need to widen the transmission tunnel depending on what transmission you cram in there.

9. Your sidedrafts will likely not fit without some mods to the air horns or some creative rearranging. The B210 brake booster tends to get in the way. People have come up with a few solutions but they all have issues.

10. An L20B swap will not be cheap, you may just spread the spending out over a much longer period of time. Double the cost of what you think it will cost and you will probably still be under what it will actually be.

11. Come up with a contingency plan if your friend helping you backs out or is unavailable. You don't want your car pulled apart for years at a time.

 

 

I'm not trying to be negative here, just many of us have seen postings about various engine swaps that eventually end up with a hacked up non-running car being sold later when it goes nowhere and after lots of time and money was spent. If the car runs now I would suggest driving it and enjoying it. Build the skills, maybe pickup another of the same model as a shell or non-runner to do the swap on while you learn.

do you still have the stock engine on your car?

[Dguy210]

1 hour ago, charolastra said:

do you still have the stock engine on your car?

For my B210 sort of. I have an A14 in it and 63A dogleg with H150 diff, 280ZX struts and Weber which are all close to bolt in mods. Was an A13 automatic with H145 because 1974 model year, realize I also bought it in 1999 and I've owned quite a few A series cars, including several B110s, a 210 and the B210. 

 

I have long looked into doing an engine swap on it for more power and I've seen and know one of the guys with an L20B swap in a B210. I've also owned an L20B swapped 521 with dogleg 5spd so I am quite familiar with the power levels involved of the L20B.

 

I decided not to do the original KA24E swap into my B210 and instead put that into a B110 shell which has required pretty much all the upgrades I'm talking about. I also have been welding for about 30years at this point, have various machine tools, and extensive experience in this type of stuff, and a large well equipped workshop. I have built up Datsuns from empty shells before and done more engine swaps and other mods than I can even remember over the last +25 years. 

 

I have also considered doing an L20B swap into my B210 and researched what would be required and what the benefit is of it and have decided to not consider it unless I had another running car. I currently have the 1200 KA24E swap which is nearing completion after several years and a 510 4dr shell which will likely get many of the parts I had purchased otherwise.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Dguy210

[charolastra]

3 hours ago, Dguy210 said:

For my B210 sort of. I have an A14 in it and 63A dogleg with H150 diff, 280ZX struts and Weber which are all close to bolt in mods. Was an A13 automatic with H145 because 1974 model year, realize I also bought it in 1999 and I've owned quite a few A series cars, including several B110s, a 210 and the B210. 

 

I have long looked into doing an engine swap on it for more power and I've seen and know one of the guys with an L20B swap in a B210. I've also owned an L20B swapped 521 with dogleg 5spd so I am quite familiar with the power levels involved of the L20B.

 

I decided not to do the original KA24E swap into my B210 and instead put that into a B110 shell which has required pretty much all the upgrades I'm talking about. I also have been welding for about 30years at this point, have various machine tools, and extensive experience in this type of stuff, and a large well equipped workshop. I have built up Datsuns from empty shells before and done more engine swaps and other mods than I can even remember over the last +25 years. 

 

I have also considered doing an L20B swap into my B210 and researched what would be required and what the benefit is of it and have decided to not consider it unless I had another running car. I currently have the 1200 KA24E swap which is nearing completion after several years and a 510 4dr shell which will likely get many of the parts I had purchased otherwise.

Stock A14? Besides the weber

[Dguy210]

1 hour ago, charolastra said:

Stock A14? Besides the weber

Mostly. It is a frankenengine put together more than 15 years ago from a bunch of different parts we had at the time and should be a closed chamber head and likely has had a little bit of work done on it at some time. It is high compression and really likes 92 clear, I've upgraded to the matchbox electronic ignition, upsized slightly the exhaust, no smog stuff, I would've port matched the manifold and probably some other minor things. I really just don't remember as it has been too long, it was built for reliability and freeway driving as the B210 was my daily driver at the time (100 mile daily commute) and I had dropped a valve in the A13 and didn't feel like rebuilding it yet again. I would have just picked through the best parts I had when building it from a large selection, so not any stock engine you could buy outright but also not any super fancy parts either. I had several A series cars at the time, a very large garage filled with A14-A15 parts and was running (most of) a race engine in my old 1200 coupe which was basically a very fun grenade.

[iceman510]

16 hours ago, charolastra said:

Awesome please let me know, I wish I can go and pick up the trans but I work at UPS and right now we are really busy, where do you live anyway?

 

No  hurry for me.  I live about 25 miles north of Ann Arbor.

[pdp8]

I recently did an "easy" swap, A14 into an A12 car, by the time I'd done the fabrication for the motor mounts, transmission mounts, came up with a solution for the exhaust, radiator hoses, figured out a way to squeeze in an electric fan, and all the other little bits I had the car apart for at least a month and it was longer before some of the other issues were sorted.  In the end it cost a lot more in time and money than putting a turbo on the A12 and I would have had a faster car.

I'm with Dguy210 in suggesting you work with what you have for a minute before pulling the pin on the engine swap grenade.  The L20 swap will add a good amount of weight which will make your suspension and brakes worse and the A-series motor has room to grow from stock.  If you don't have the electronic ignition, get one ASAP.  Get a Webber and a header and you'll be able to enjoy the car a lot more while actually reducing weight.  Speaking of, get a little sealed gel battery in there, $100 and shaves 30Lbs off the car high and far forward, if you are sensitive you can actually feel the difference it makes.  Check that you have a decent flowing oval-port head, if not it might be worth the swap.  a little bigger exhaust will help as well, don't go too big or it costs you torque you can ill-afford to spend.

[charolastra]

17 hours ago, pdp8 said:

I recently did an "easy" swap, A14 into an A12 car, by the time I'd done the fabrication for the motor mounts, transmission mounts, came up with a solution for the exhaust, radiator hoses, figured out a way to squeeze in an electric fan, and all the other little bits I had the car apart for at least a month and it was longer before some of the other issues were sorted.  In the end it cost a lot more in time and money than putting a turbo on the A12 and I would have had a faster car.

I'm with Dguy210 in suggesting you work with what you have for a minute before pulling the pin on the engine swap grenade.  The L20 swap will add a good amount of weight which will make your suspension and brakes worse and the A-series motor has room to grow from stock.  If you don't have the electronic ignition, get one ASAP.  Get a Webber and a header and you'll be able to enjoy the car a lot more while actually reducing weight.  Speaking of, get a little sealed gel battery in there, $100 and shaves 30Lbs off the car high and far forward, if you are sensitive you can actually feel the difference it makes.  Check that you have a decent flowing oval-port head, if not it might be worth the swap.  a little bigger exhaust will help as well, don't go too big or it costs you torque you can ill-afford to spend.

Thanks man

[datzenmike]

just to counter the above.

 

An L20B weighs about 270 so fill in the blank for an A series engine, as I have no clue what they weigh. For this you get about 93 hp on a good day against an A14's 68??? Additional weight but additional power and best of all much more low speed torque from the displacement increase and the L20B does this all day long in stock condition. Low speed torque is that feeling of being squashed back in the seat. Now about the weight, (we still haven't really come up with a number) unless you race your car or drive it spiritedly you probably won't notice the extra weight or any handling changes that you can't get used to or compensate for with shocks and springs. If you race then added weight is a problem and so is getting 93 hp from an A14. It can be done but that A14 engine is going to have to work pretty hard to make 35% more power

[mhub91]

I do not recommend this swap what so ever if you don't know how to weld or have swap experience. As easy as it may appear, this is a relatively difficult swap that doesn't produce much of a result other that the cool factor. Huge cool factor, but still slow. 

 

How is this thread even posted? Are you aware there's a post literally titled "Definitive B210 Swap" .......... 

 

Here, take a bite. I'll feed you:
 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by mhub91

[mhub91]

On 11/23/2020 at 1:57 PM, Dguy210 said:

 THIS WILL NOT BE A BOLT IN SETUP

 

 

 

It's kinda ironic you posted this because when I was doing an L swap on my B I'm pretty sure either you or ggzilla both said it should bolt in.