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Mill City is BURNING!

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Very cool of your sister! I heard someone interview some of the fire crew and they said cold Gatorade was their go to.

 

The problem is they don’t have enough boots on the ground. Help is coming though.. 

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On 9/9/2020 at 11:18 PM, wayno said:

 

Well Gene that is speculation unless you can supply a link to that info, there is so much being made up or left out lately for political purposes or for purposes of controlling people with fear that one cannot trust anything said anymore from anyone, it helps to have a link so one can find the source and figure it out from there.

wayno:  It’s real people.  Just got off the phone with a buddy that is evacuating out of the Holley area.....  He was at the store in Holley just 15 mins ago and authorities have arrested 8 people so far that have started these fires.  These are words from a reporter covering the fires in the area.  These people starting these fires are calling it the “The ring of fire”.  Watch the news it will be on at some point.

 

Arson suspect arrested after allegedly starting multiple fires in Spokane on Monday

 
Edited by gene knight

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If anyone dies then all those people, each and everyone, should be charged with Felony Murder in Federal Court. Felony murder is either life in prison or execution and it is not like State life (which can be as low as 12 years, and then parole). Fed time is real time. It is too bad some nice citizen didn't get video footage evidence and then, shoot the arsonist. The application of deadly force has been justified to stop an arsonist attempting to burn a person's house, it is not too far a stretch that using deadly force to stop an arsonist would be justifiable under "fearing for the lives of others".  A liberal Oregon prosecutor might want to make a big splash (especially if the fire starter isn't white) and charge the shooter with murder. The defense could use the "fearing for the lives of others" defense and if the shooter is acquitted (I would give it 50/50 and that is the best you can hope for, regardless of  guilt or innocence ) It would create case law  expanding the application of deadly force. People against the death penalty have books of statistics that the death penalty is not a deterrent to murder. But, if you dig a little deeper, if the death penalty was applied to other violent felonies e.g. robbery, rape, arson, child molestation  (Only the most extreme examples of the aforementioned felonies) in many studies the death penalty proved an effective deterrent.

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You can't shoot someone for starting a fire even if you video them doing so. You might get away with it if it was your home, possibly if it was your property but to use 'fearing for the lives of others" you would have to demonstrate imminent threat (like setting fire to the only exits of a home) not just potential, like a brush fire. 

 

Arsonists probably start off small when young and I bet most are known to police. When there is a suspicious fire I bet they look at "the usual suspects"  

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7 hours ago, datzenmike said:

You can't shoot someone for starting a fire even if you video them doing so. You might get away with it if it was your home, possibly if it was your property but to use 'fearing for the lives of others" you would have to demonstrate imminent threat (like setting fire to the only exits of a home) not just potential, like a brush fire. 

 

I didn't say it would be easy 🙃. It would require some legal gymnastics, but by a simple connect-the-dot legal theory, I still give it 50/50.  No real worries, this is all hypothetical.

For self-defense to work, evidence must be compelling that the fire starter was not an "Arsonist that started off small..." . Rather, the fire starter must be linked to a radical group, bent on destruction. The fact that wild fires are  deadly, is easily understood. An example by analogy based on an actual case and then stretched a bit.

if  someone drops bowling balls off an overpass into highway traffic causing an fatal accident, the standard for murder is met. The bowling ball dropper, might claim he was just having fun and didn't intend to hurt anyone, but this will not mitigate the charge. Murder requires intent, but the  legal standard of intent can be met by reckless endangering life.

Like dropping bowling balls into traffic, intentionally starting a forest fire would easily meet the reckless endangerment standard required to assume intent, thus meeting the threshold for murder.

The interesting legal issue is how it relates to defense  of the lives of others. If someone  is engaging in activity that constitutes recklessly endangerment of life, i.e. murder, then is deadly force authorized to stop the activity?

Say you are walking across an overpass, when you see a man about 20 yards away with a bag of bowling balls, dropping them one at a time off the overpass and  into traffic. The first bowling ball strikes the windshield of a car and the car swerves into another lane striking another car. The dropper reaches in to the bag for another ball. You produce your legally owned  and legally carried firearm and shoot the dropper, stopping the second bowling ball from being dropped. The fear for lives for others standard  is met as well as the immediate and continual threat requirements (bag  of bowling balls) In my non-lawyer, but legally experienced opinion, deadly force to stop the dropper would fall under the protection  of a fear for the lives of others defense.

 

Returning to the fire starters, if the fire starters are linked to a radical group and someone, anyone dies as a result of the fire. Then there is  a high probability of a first degree  and/or felony  murder charge, by the method described above. The  fire starters have much in common with the bowling ball dropper, but it would require a little legal stretching. It would be interesting to watch unfold, but in all likelihood, everything will be plead away.

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Police 👮 Officers have AGAIN CONFIRMED they’ve been arresting arsonists who’ve been walking the streets with AR’s and other weapons, BLOWTORCHES & gas cans, INTENTIONALLY starting these forest 🔥
Antif@ is waging WAR in America, and our media is gaslighting the public by stating these claims are outright false. 👉https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/tech/qanon-oregon-fire-conspiracy-theory/index.html

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19 hours ago, gene knight said:

wayno:  It’s real people.  Just got off the phone with a buddy that is evacuating out of the Holley area.....  He was at the store in Holley just 15 mins ago and authorities have arrested 8 people so far that have started these fires.  These are words from a reporter covering the fires in the area.  These people starting these fires are calling it the “The ring of fire”.  Watch the news it will be on at some point.

 

Arson suspect arrested after allegedly starting multiple fires in Spokane on Monday

 

 

I think I read all them yesterday, none made a statement that any were affiliated to Antifa/BLM that I recall so far, I try not to link anyone to Antifa/BLM unless it is proven they are associated to said groups.

It is better in the end to not make accusations that turn out to be false for others to use in any way, it may cause problems in the future, just let the law enforcement do their jobs as I suspect they will really look close at these people and any others arrested for arson, I suspect Law enforcement in WA and OR have no love for their Governors or large City Mayors.

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Just saw a post. Fire is about 2 miles from the home of the people we know that live in the Estacada area. Twenty cattle are without water since power is out, and they are scattered throughout timber and valley. Apparently more than one home is on the dead end road. 

 

Don

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Also, my wife's parents went back to their house yesterday. The wind turned and blew the fire north, away from the place. Power came back on sometime during the day yesterday. So, they are out of danger at the moment. Thank all of you for your prayers for them, BUT, keep praying for all the firefighters on ALL the many fires, and all the police that are dealing with the extra traffic.

 

Don  

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One of the ways to control a wildland fire is to do a controlled burn somewhat in front of an advancing fire, and when the wild fire hits the area that was controlled burnt, the wildfire has nowhere to go.

 

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I know what you are talking about, but I don't know what tactics are being used on the many fires. It's possible that most of the fires are so big that using the back fire is more difficult. I just checked the weather forecast for Albany. Monday's chance of rain bounces between 5 and 10% until around 5 PM, and then goes up to 20%. That's the last of the hourly forecast, then it goes to daily. The chance of rain could help control the fires, if there isn't any lightning with it. For the Southern Oregon fires I heard on a news cast that it may be around the end of October before they are contained. We will see.

 

Don 

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Yesterday was clear blue sky but late in the afternoon everything turned to a blue haze. This morning it was thicker white/gray and couldn't see the other side of the bay 2 miles away. May have been part sea fog but at noon the sun barely showed as a glow and had an orange tint around it. In the afternoon the overcast sky was pink almost orange. Pollution index was 156

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Eight small fires started within a two-hour period early this morning, and deputies are looking for a pickup truck that was seen in the area of one of the fires.

https://www.kezi.com/content/news/Suspicious-fires-under-investigation-in-Linn-County-572408211.html

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Hey no worries  Trump says it's going to get cooler, just watch. Just like co-vid is just going to disappear. You can't make this shit up.

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1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Hey no worries  Trump says it's going to get cooler, just watch. Just like co-vid is just going to disappear. You can't make this shit up.

Of course it's going to get cooler, winter is coming 😆

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I know!!!! He said that and I burst out laughing. Unknown to me my wife was listening in the kitchen and she burst out laughing at the same time. What a fucking tool. He never disappoints and I'll miss him when Biden takes over.

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Overcast now for third day. Light rain around supper time.

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20 hours ago, Draker said:

Eight small fires started within a two-hour period early this morning, and deputies are looking for a pickup truck that was seen in the area of one of the fires.

https://www.kezi.com/content/news/Suspicious-fires-under-investigation-in-Linn-County-572408211.html

 

I heard this same thing, but didn't plan to write anything, until this. Now I have written evidence of this incidence. I'm wondering how many of the many fires were arson. 

 

According to the weather channel on line there is a 50% chance of rain on Thursday. Much lower before then, but still a chance.

 

Don

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I feel for you guys having to deal with so many out-of-control fires. In the past I've had to evacuate because of fire because there was only 1 road in/out, and when I returned the fire had gotten to within 1/2 mile of our site. The mentality of arsonists totally escapes me and I do agree that there needs to be heavier penalties/charges in dealing with them. Manslaughter charges maybe but would that do much? Our legal system is IMO much too soft on capital crimes and to a degree there is validity in the death penalty.

 

What F'n purpose does starting wildfires have to do with the Antifa nutbars anyway? BLM? Again, IMO people are simply using those as a cover for getting their own jollies. Those people are cowards.

 

On a side note as it was mentioned before, imagine the # of rare/collectible/antique cars that are being destroyed. I've heard of entire collections being wiped out, and while insurance may replace some of the value, a rare car may never be replaced.

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2 hours ago, EDM620 said:

I feel for you guys having to deal with so many out-of-control fires. In the past I've had to evacuate because of fire because there was only 1 road in/out, and when I returned the fire had gotten to within 1/2 mile of our site. The mentality of arsonists totally escapes me and I do agree that there needs to be heavier penalties/charges in dealing with them. Manslaughter charges maybe but would that do much? Our legal system is IMO much too soft on capital crimes and to a degree there is validity in the death penalty.

 

What F'n purpose does starting wildfires have to do with the Antifa nutbars anyway? BLM? Again, IMO people are simply using those as a cover for getting their own jollies. Those people are cowards.

 

On a side note as it was mentioned before, imagine the # of rare/collectible/antique cars that are being destroyed. I've heard of entire collections being wiped out, and while insurance may replace some of the value, a rare car may never be replaced.

 

I know of a pole barn deep in the woods, packed to the roof with 510 parts, a collection spanning 4 decades. it could be already burnt to the ground. Also in side, several OG mini coopers.

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On 9/10/2020 at 5:23 PM, Draker said:

@Dguy210 is in this area too I think? 

 

Thankfully, not quite that far out, border of level 3 ended up being pretty much on my doorstep though.

Shit has been crazy, last week was very stressful. Everything much better now. But between evacuation packing, shitty air, and keeping an ear to the scanner been less than fun. 

Edited by Dguy210

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23 minutes ago, Dguy210 said:

 

Thankfully, not quite that far out, border of level 3 ended up being pretty much on my doorstep though.

Shit has been crazy, last week was very stressful. Everything much better now. But between evacuation packing, shitty air, and keeping an ear to the scanner been less than fun. 

 

My sister lives between Mollola and Colton, the fire came within 2 miles of their property before the wind direction changed, her husband stayed on the property and kept everything wet but I am sure he would have left if he seen the fire coming, a fire engine/crew was watching for fires ahead of the main fire on their road, my sister told them where water and cold drinks were in the garage on their property while I was talking to her on the phone.

They are so lucky the wind direction changed, others were not so lucky.😓

Edited by wayno
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It rained here already twice. Very light, but more coming tonight. Up to 1.5” expected in the hills... where the fire is.

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