Timing chain

[wayno]

Like I said I have never seen a sawtooth timing plate on the driver side, the 620 engine has a lot of stuff I have never seen before, I rarely even looked at 620s in the wrecking yards except for when I am looking for a W53 head or an A87 CC head, I have never looked down to see where the sawtooth timing plate is.

Your right about it confusing people when mix matching parts, that old521 guy had what appeared to be an L18 with an L20b sawtooth timing plate and an L16 front pulley, I had no idea what the timing was on that engine, I just turned it to where it idled the best, fact is I could not seen down there very well anyway as everything was caked with dirt.

 

Duncan said the front pulley was put on backwards and that was why he thought it was timed correctly, that is why I thought maybe that photo was of where the mark was at before turning the engine to TDC.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I really don't know how a pulley can be on backwards.as the pulley has a inch or 2 lip that fits inside the timing cover were the seal wears. But right now I cant see his pictures.

 

[wayno]

This is the photo that has be baffled, it has the notch at 2:00 give or take a few minutes as the photo is angled, I have never seen this position as TDC before, that doesn't mean it is not TDC for this pulley.

 

 

It is not possible to get the pulley on backwards with the front timing chain cover on, so that means the cover was not on and not sure how one would know it aligned with the timing marks. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by wayno

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

You can see the woodruff key in the top center of the crank pulley.

 

Some motors have them on the driver side, some on the passenger side.

 

Always best to verify TDC. I know I sound like a broken record every time I say it, but all this confusion about the location of the TDC mark only proves my point.

[banzai510(hainz)]

yep he has the right side under the distributo as the timing mark and so should the sawtooth timming plate(matching for that pulley) on that side. simple enough.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by banzai510(hainz)

[datzenmike]

Usually L20B has at least 2 pulley grooves. One or alt. and fan and one for air pump. Some have a 3rd air con. Is it a pointer or sawtooth?

[Duncan]

I haven't yet put on the front cover where the sawtooth timing plate goes.  However, with the head off and the No 1 and 4 pistons in positions, I could grab the pulley with one hand and rock it back and forth at the top of the stroke.  You can feel right where TDC is.  I just know that from looking at it for a few years, the pulley notch is right about where it should be.

 

This is the only L Series motor I've ever had or worked on, so the pulley could be from something else.  I have checked timing with a light a few times, and it has always been easy to time and it seems to be right where it should be every time I checked.  I do have a matchbox dizzy in it. 

 

Anyway, I may slap the front cover on tomorrow temporarily and double check the pulley mark against the plate.  Certainly won't hurt anything. I may even take a photo 🙂

 

 

 

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Usually L20B has at least 2 pulley grooves. One or alt. and fan and one for air pump. Some have a 3rd air con. Is it a pointer or sawtooth?

 

Mike, my wagon is an Aussie spec model.  It has no a/c, and a '71 from Australia probably didn't get an air pump, either.  Don't know for sure, but just a guess..

 

 

 

[datzenmike]

So an Australian pulley found it's was here? Or the entire engine may be an import. I dunnow just not that common to have  single puley.

[banzai510(hainz)]

If you know where true TDC is you could file a notch in there and paint it but usually the single notch from the factory is good.

dial it up to zero when you think it’s all done and the cam sprocket timing should be on the V notch.

if you done Chevys this should be even Ezer for you.

zcarparts .comHas a Japan made headgaskets for like 26-30 bucks . I’m not a big fan of the Felpro but for L16 they are ok but not familiar  With the zcarparts but is a Japan made gasket .

 I got mine HG from Datsport in Australia as they are 87mm bore size. I bought a bunch a few years back

Edited August 4, 2020 by banzai510(hainz)

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

So an Australian pulley found it's was here? Or the entire engine may be an import. I dunnow just not that common to have  single puley.

 

I imported the whole wagon, and the motor I'm working on came over "on the boat" installed in it.  The really weird thing was it arrived and had a LHD centerlink, and I somehow ended up buying a NOS RHD centerlink out of Texas.  Now THAT was a very strange, but nice find..

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Duncan

[banzai510(hainz)]

I say keep your wagon

I sold this one a 3 years ago for 5K

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

L16 and L18 came with single groove pulley. Is it possible that it was changed over from one of those? Uh, yes. Ultimately it doesn't matter where the pulley is from, just that it matches the timing pointer. As Hainz said, you can make a new TDC mark in any pulley with the edge of a file and paint it with junkyard marker or even whiteout.

[Duncan]

3 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

L16 and L18 came with single groove pulley. Is it possible that it was changed over from one of those? Uh, yes. Ultimately it doesn't matter where the pulley is from, just that it matches the timing pointer. As Hainz said, you can make a new TDC mark in any pulley with the edge of a file and paint it with junkyard marker or even whiteout.

 

Yes, but we discuss details as small as you could imagine ad nauseum.  It's the Ratsun way 🙂 

 

And, there's only one notch on the pulley, and (as far as I can remember) it aligns just fine with the sawtooth timing piece. I am also taking your suggestion to temporarily put the timing cover on and checking the timing mark against the pointer.  I'll probably get to that tomorrow before I put the head back on.  It's a good suggestion, and thanks!

 

I also sent my extra timing cover out today to have it polished.  Since JCCS was cancelled, there's no worry about getting it together with a deadline.  I can take my time and clean and/replace stuff as necessary now instead of rushing it.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Duncan

[wayno]

I would suggest you put the timing cover on before the head, otherwise your going to have to drop the oil pan a little to get the front cover on, it will not slide in with the oil pan and head in position, the oil pan gasket gets in the way.

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, wayno said:

I would suggest you put the timing cover on before the head, otherwise your going to have to drop the oil pan a little to get the front cover on, it will not slide in with the oil pan and head in position, the oil pan gasket gets in the way.

 

Good point.  I suppose I could put the bottom of the timing chain on and then wedge it in place. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

10 hours ago, Duncan said:

 

Good point.  I suppose I could put the bottom of the timing chain on and then wedge it in place. 

Better be good at this most people cant get this correct. most poeple cant get the chain up.

 

 

I like going the chain up first as I get all the slack out of it when bolting the slack side guide in

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

For the chain wedge, I have always used a piece of garden hose stuffed with a slug of steel. The hose shape allows it to slide all the way down to the lower timing gear and the metal inside of it keeps it from squishing under the pressure of the tensioner.

 

Those wedge tools are gimmicks and you would not have the problem Hainz just mentioned with the hose-stuffed-with-steel tool.

 

Ok, not quite a gimmick, but not a perfect tool by any means.

[wayno]

I have never tried it the way I suggested it as I have only once ever lost the tensioner once in my life on a Datsun Roadster U20 engine, but I have tried to squeeze the timing chain cover between the head and oil pan, it didn't work out that well as it screwed up the oil pan gasket.

Since then I have always dropped the front of the oil pan a quarter to eighth inch, with new gaskets it is normally easy, it's not so easy with old gaskets, they normally get ripped apart when some stays attached to the block and the rest stay connected to the oil pan, I generally just put a bunch of fresh gasket sealer in the areas it ripped apart and put it back together if it didn't leak before, if it was leaking I would normally change it out for a new one anyway.

I would try putting the front cover on first it at least once, you can make the perfect wedge or make what was mentioned above as a hose will likely squeeze past/thru the guides when pulled out from the top as you will want the tensioner pushed all the way in and that is slightly wider than the guides above it, you could also make a 2 piece wedge that holds the tensioner all the way in to have the chain the slackest it can be and have a piece of string connected to the lower piece so when the wedge was pulled out the rest could be pulled out with the string.

 

Hainz does have a point, you can get the guides adjusted properly with the head in position, that would require dropping the oil pan a little, maybe an eighth inch, just enough to get the timing chain cover past the oil pan gasket without ruining it, you only need to loosen the front and side oil pan bolts, the back ones stay tight.

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by wayno

[Duncan]

5 hours ago, wayno said:

Hainz does have a point, you can get the guides adjusted properly with the head in position, that would require dropping the oil pan a little, maybe an eighth inch, just enough to get the timing chain cover past the oil pan gasket without ruining it, you only need to loosen the front and side oil pan bolts, the back ones stay tight.

 

 

That's exactly what I was planning on doing.  I did rip the gasket getting the front cover off. I bought another and plan on trimming the front section off and replacing with a front cut piece off the new one.  Less than ideal, for sure, but it should be okay. 

 

I'm also waiting to get my new/used timing cover back from being polished.  My old one was fairly well corroded internally along with the water inlet.  I went to a new metal polish shop and it was fairly inexpensive, so I thought "what the hell". I also bought a new water pump.  It's another one of those "since I'm here" things.

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Duncan

[banzai510(hainz)]

to keep the corrosion dow always put new Anti freeze in. I hate doing it my self on cars I don't drive a lot Esp on cars with lots of aluminum.

The old Fords and Chevys one could abuse them a lot more. Now all cars are this way

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Distilled water too. Hard water or acidic water will eat up a radiator.

[datzenmike]

Hard water scale will build up like in an electric kettle.

[Duncan]

I actually change the coolant semi-regularly.  When I was putting the wags together, I hot tanked the radiator, flushed the crap out of it, then filled it with a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water.  The Dollar store down the street from me sells distilled water for $0.99 a gallon. 

 

I'm currently running the stock radiator and noticed the L20 gets warm at traffic lights on a hot day.  It doesn't overheat, but gets a bit warmer than I prefer.  Was thinking about getting a Koyorad and dual 12" fans.  I have always been a bit concerned that the stock L16 rad wasn't quite up to the job.  It does an okay job, mostly, so I haven't rushed out to upgrade it.

 

I believe the previous owner(s) were not terribly concerned with maintenence or repairs.....

 

And not related to the timing chain, but engine related nonetheless.  Just picked this rig, and these should wake the L20 up nicely.  I had ZTherapy do the carbs on my old Sunny, and these are also going to their shop for a full treatment.  Their waiting is long at the moment, but based on my previous set of carbs, they are well worth the money and wait time..

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Duncan

[MikeRL411]

If your coolant temperature starts  to get uncomfortably warm turn on the heater and fan.  Might have to open the windows a bit.  Heater = free auxiliary radiator.