Need someone to replace head gasket

[wayno]

Your Welcome Glenn

 

That is a L16 pulley on your engine, that appears to be a L20b plate with the timing numbers on it(maybe L18 plate also), they may have put that L16 pulley from your old engine on that engine because the low mileage engine didn't come with a pulley or it had the wrong pulley, it's really hard to say as over the years so many things get changed on these old trucks that one cannot remember the changes anymore, I cannot remember half the things I have changed on my work truck anymore nor can I remember where the parts changed came from, I find stuff all the time that I didn't even know I had buried in boxes or tubs filled with parts.

Edited July 16, 2020 by wayno

[old521]

I was the one that changed the engines.  Seems I would have remembered putting that plate on.  The pulley?  I don't remember if the engine had one or not when I bought it. 

 

Oh well.  Thanks again.  Sorry it was so much more trouble than anyone would have expected.  Wonder how many head bolts are removed with a sledge hammer? 😀  I will never forget that!

 

Never seen such a 'big project' just to change a head gasket.  Just remembered.  Guess I can turn the air compressor off and drain it now!! 😀 

 

Of course, it had to be the hottest day of the week, today!    Anyone larger than you would have had problems squeezing in, between that fence and the fender.  I don't know if you ever noticed what time it was during any part of the day, but I did, and I could not believe it! 

 

You are the hero! 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

13 hours ago, wayno said:

 the driver side head bolts did not unscrew out of the block easily, none were loose but the rear pass side was not all that tight either.

 

you see it appears to have an L20b plate, but an L16 pulley, I just adjusted it to where it idled best,

 

it revved fine but seemed to have an extended/long/slow un-revving, I don't have a word, it un-revved slower than my work truck engine,

 

I really don't like down drafts, either they run great or they need replacing, I prefer Dual SUs, I understand them.

 

If it were my truck I would likely drive it around for a while and see if it improves, I would check the valve adjustment, do a tune-up also, I might even try sucking fresh fuel out of a gas can to see if the gas is part of the issue, it needs timed also,

 

 

Dirty threads can give a false torque reading so hopefully you got them clean enough to do the job.

 

Mix-match timing pointer/pulley - classic Datsun mistake.

 

Some people call this throttle hang.

 

Everyone has their favorites. I personally like the DGV over SU's because of the accell pump. SU's don't have them.

 

Drive it, change out the fuel and filter, re-torque the head and adjust the valves, set the timing. Oh yeah, and DRIVE IT!!!

 

Great job Wayno.

[datzenmike]

SUs don't need them. AKA as a 'constant velocity carb' the vacuum at the venturi remains relatively the same. As the engine revs, the slide moves up to allow more air in keeping the velocity the same. This is unlike other carburetors where sudden opening at low RPMs there is insufficient air velocity at the venturi to pull gas in. An accelerator pump dumps extra gas in to transition through this dead spot. Because every time you lift off and step on the gas you get a squirt weather you need it or not an SU will save gas.

 

 

 

[iceman510]

Big Kudos to Wayno for doing this.  I don't know you personally, but you are now a solid Datsun citizen in my book.

 

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

if mechanically its sound timed and lash good

then its a carb

or distributor/electrical issue ex.   distributor drive off. wrong coil ballast set up /point bounce from worn dist.

Edited July 16, 2020 by banzai510(hainz)

[wayno]

I didn't think about this till Hainz posted, before I left just after we shut the engine down I touched the coil, it was hot, hot enough that I removed my hand right away, maybe a minute later I touched it again and held my hand on it for an extended amount of time, it was very hot but didn't burn me, I thought that was not right and it should not be that hot.

In the end I went over to change a head gasket and I did, it ran and didn't appear to have any more head gasket issue, I told him it might be the carb that was the issue now, he brought this vacuum gauge out and connected it to the intake manifold and said it likely had a vacuum leak as the gauge was only showing 12 on the scale, he thought it should be 20, I know nothing about that, I just go by how it runs and sounds, it sounded weird to be(maybe the type of muffler), and the engine was quite noisy while running.

As I said before, I looked down in between the chain and could see the post sticking out at the bottom just above the gear, I turned the engine and was able to make the intake side of the chain go slack and that seemed normal to me, I put the wedge in twice, once to change out the head gasket and the other time to  re-time the cam as it appeared I put it back on one tooth off even though I marked the chain before removing it the first time.

The timing I could not figure out, it had an L16 pulley and a L20b gauge, it was so sunny out I could not see very well down there even with a light, I left it the way it was when I got there, the timing may be way off but to do anything about it I would need to know more and it was getting late in the day and I was getting tired, it sounded funny(exhaust) and the engine was making a lot of noise, I decided to call it a day.

If someone could tell me which mark on the L16 pulley to use when timing it using the L20b scale I could go back and try dealing with the timing, the distributor was turned clockwise as far as it could be moved, that was where is was when I left even though I did move it counter clockwise to see if it made a difference, also when I put it at what I thought was TDC, when I removed the head it was not at TDC, but I didn't care as I had marked the chain when I pulled it apart to make sure I put it back together the same way, in the end I can figure out the timing if I have to, just find the real TDC and look at the marks on the scale and L16 pulley, but again I was tired and it was hot, maybe I was not thinking straight because of the heat and maybe having not had anything but a bowl of cereal to eat that day when I left the house, the ibuprofen had worn off a couple hours before, it was time for me to go home that day.

I can go back another day if needed, but need to have a plan for that day also(that day was to change a head gasket), maybe have someone else there with a fresh point of view, the timing can be dealt with when I have a clear head, it may need the distributor drive shaft removed to get the distributor where it needs to be.

[old521]

Hmmm..seems a lot of the stuff you just stated, is what I said on this forum. 

 

Forget it. I will deal with it myself.  ..I went out there today, and did some things...have rebuilt carb's since high school.  Nothing wrong with this one...Something changed in the past couple days.  It is a 'bitch' to time the thing, and guess I gotta start all over.  I pointed that out a couple times that that plate and thing did not coordinate correctly to time the engine. 

 

It may be worse now.  I do not know until I start driving it. 

 

Thanks for your help.  I do appreciate your help.  You stated more than once that the only reason for helping me is the head gasket.  You did that!  I thank you.  I most certainly do appreciate all the time you spent helping me.  Thank you!! 

 

[datzenmike]

Try to find an L16 pointer or a correct L20B pulley.

[wayno]

The more info I post/write/tell people, the more likely someone may see if I missed something.

When TDC is found(easy enough with a clear head) the pulley/scale can be marked with chalk or something easy to see when timing the engine, then the distributor can be removed and we can see how far off the distributor drive spindle is if it is off at all, if it is off then the oil pump will need to be removed and the distributor drive spindle turned to the proper position and then the oil pump re-installed, the drive spindle needs to be clocked at 11:30 for everything to work properly timing wise, once the timing is known and taken care of and ruled out as an issue, then move on to the next thing that may be a possible problem.

I have fought issues with my work truck in the past, it would not start in the morning when cold(especially in the winter), but after warmed up it started easily, it turned out to be a wire I removed from the coil, the one that powered the coil when the key was in the start position cranking over the engine, I figured this out when I found that hot wiring it with a wire in the morning and it would start right up, I finally realized I had not connected that wire or I had removed it for some reason, I caused the issue myself, this went on for a month or more before I finally figured it out.

I didn't really notice if your coil had a ballast resister, by the time I touched that coil I was not thinking straight, I forgot the book/manual also, getting old sucks.

Edited July 17, 2020 by wayno

[banzai510(hainz)]

When the head was off you could have best guess mark the pulley with paint or chalk and on the front cover or use the current L20 sawttoothor L16 timmimg post as a reference point as TDC then check the distributor position.once you got the mark you could best guess before TDC when running the motor. Or look on plug hole and see the piston come up and split the diffence back and forth then put the TDC paint Mark on pulley and from cover. Then best guess the btdc marks when using a timmimg lightmayne use yellow as a different color.

 

a coil should not be that hot.  needs a ballast For a points ignition or Pertronix set up or the points will burn up or module pop

 

do not remove the hot start wire on points or Pertronix as one using a ballast.on Start the ballast is bypassed this doubling the current going to the coil( this ezer starting on cold days and battery draw lowering the voltage)

I also had the hotstart wired wrong once also.the P.O. hooked it back up wrong.He put the hot start on the wrong side of the ballast instead at the + coil side.

 

on matchbox it’s not needed as much cause the coil is lower value and should start ok on cold days Most short the hotstart and On wire together

 

so knowing what the distributor is helpful.hoping it a matching pedestal and not mismatched parts made to work as a moving the distributor spindal off a tooth to make it work as a prime example

 

so this was running before and assume it was good.bit maybe was on borrowed time with the wrong parts in there and the coil is maybe shot??? A lot of guessing here maybe still good and points shot

however if you think a cylinder is not firing after the headgasket   or spark plug changed, valve lash is good the valve could have a crack if not checked 

Edited July 17, 2020 by banzai510(hainz)

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

22 hours ago, datzenmike said:

SUs don't need them. AKA as a 'constant velocity carb' the vacuum at the venturi remains relatively the same. As the engine revs, the slide moves up to allow more air in keeping the velocity the same. This is unlike other carburetors where sudden opening at low RPMs there is insufficient air velocity at the venturi to pull gas in. An accelerator pump dumps extra gas in to transition through this dead spot. Because every time you lift off and step on the gas you get a squirt weather you need it or not an SU will save gas.

 

 

 

It was just an example.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Yes, as suggested, just bring the motor to TDC (with #1 spark plug out and feeling the piston rise with a long handled screwdriver), then mark the pulley to correspond with the pointer.

 

It would have been best to set the TDC pointer when the head was off, but that ship has sailed.

 

The engine is noisy? Did the valves get adjusted after the head was torqued? If not, then that needs to be done. The noise could be loose valves.

[old521]

I had to readjust the linkage going to the carbureator.  Somehow, that got fouled up.
I moved the distributor to different places and think I finally got it close to being correct.  
I used the light and all cylinders are now firing.  
I put new plugs in.  
I replaced the cap and rotor.
Seems like something is still wrong, but I cannot detect any vacuum leaks anywhere.  
I followed Datzennmike's advice, (July 😎 so I can not take it out and drive it today.  
Noise seems to be coming from the valves plus the chain.  That was the first thing I did after I told my wife to stop driving it.  Adjust...Thought the valves were ready to fly into the air.  But that was not the problem. Wayno checked them the other day and said they are ok.  I don't care if they are a little loose.  Just don't want them too tight!   That noise caused by the air blowing from that gasket was amazing!  Never seen or heard anything like that before!   I did drive it to places asking if anyone could do anything, and the one guy that told me it was a 'bad gasket', I did not believe it!   He did not even walk up within 10 feet of the thing!  But I could not find an exhaust leak and knew the noise was coming from the engine compartment.  He is an Asian, and guess he knew what he was talking about!  The engine is older than he.  I think.  
Does not sound too bad right now.  
I followed Datzennmike's advice... "You can fix this for as little as $20 for a gasket and a couple of cases of beer"...therefore, cannot drive it today. I cannot drink that much, but attempted to try a couple to calm me down!  
I tend to think there is a vacuum leak somewhere, but I cannot find it, if there is one.
Don't have power steering so it is very difficult to get it out.  Have to move the other one out completely.  If it runs ok, then the other one will sit where this one has been for over a year or so!  
I did not remove the valve cover.  I will adjust the distributor if it is not quite correct.  Think I can get it 'on the road' again, thanks to Wayno! And all you folks attempting to help me.  Glad I asked for help here!   Keep forgetting, but will put some pictures of the thing and the other one on here sometime.  
I have health issues plus some other issues, and life is not that easy anymore.  Thanks guys!!   If I had got someone else to work on it around here, I probably would have been in an extreme mess.  That thing had so many problems it is pathetic, in regards to removing the head on it.  And the crazy mix-up with the pulley and the scale at the bottom.  Thanks guys!! 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by old521

[banzai510(hainz)]

why would there be a vaccum leak?  Maybe if it has a L20b intake and some egr crap on there.  You can tell if you don't have something pluged up

 

If it idls then there is most likely no leak

 

You could throw him a bone of 100$ is what I would do to maybe keep the help on the line.

 

if Wayno didn't pull the front cover and the tensioner maybe be worn out. But he wasn't there for that.  You can adjust the valves youself as there is YOUTUBE you can watch. Don't need a GED to figure that one out.

[old521]

I gave him one and a quarter bones.  That satisfy you? 

 

If you have to pay to 'keep help on the line' then I am gone.  Period.  Bye. 

 

Remove me from the membership list.

Edited July 18, 2020 by old521

[greenthumb]

Lol! Only on Ratsun

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

17 hours ago, old521 said:

I gave him one and a quarter bones.  That satisfy you? 

 

If you have to pay to 'keep help on the line' then I am gone.  Period.  Bye. 

 

Remove me from the membership list.

Calm down. Hainz was only suggesting that you do something nice for Wayno, and you have. He did not know that.

 

His engrish is weird because he's Gerwaiian.

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Calm down. Hainz was only suggesting that you do something nice for Wayno, and you have. He did not know that.

 

His engrish is weird because he's Gerwaiian.

 

Spelling is worse....

[old521]

I am not angry at anyone.   Just upset.  Thought all it needed was a head gasket.  It was replaced by a nice guy.  (Wayno)  And now I cannot drive it safely for some reason.  I could, before the gasket was replaced.  Have spent over two weeks trying to figure out what the problem is; and it just kept getting worse.  I do not have a garage to work on vehicles, so it has to be repaired in months that are nice.  And it will start raining soon.  Patched up the Ford to get me up hills, but doubt it will pas DEQ.  And the Datsun is a ...gone...'goner'...

The other Datsun; I no longer put regular oil into it.  I put all kinds of stuff into it to prevent our town from smothering from the exhaust fumes.  This one now is starting to blow smoke out...too many times of running/revving  at extreme high speed.  The engine was once good.  Now..I do not even want to run a compression test on it. 

A lot of people are in serious financial problems nearby, and I am approaching the same.  People do not want to work on these old Datsun engines around here for some reason; even if I had the money to pay them.  This particular engine is screwed up more than what I was ever aware of; in regards to the timing plate and stuff.  I was was not aware it was an L18; rather than the L20B  that it was sold to me as...from Japan.   Only one shop worked on it since I bought it, and ...I don't know if they changed engines on me!  That was many years ago! 

May attempt to get rid of both (Datsun) of them.  But locally; not on this forum; where no one in Portland will get onto.  I am going to end AAA and insurance coverage for some of the cars.  I still do not understand why folks will work on old Toyota's around here, but refuse the old Datsun's.  All the engines screwed up as much as this one?  A neighbor worked completely on a old Toyota.  And refused to work on this one.  I asked him a few days ago. 

 

It appeared to me he did everything correctly.  But now, it appears to me the timing keeps changing...I don't know.  Just guessing.   But why the 'revving'?  And '

randomly?'

 

I am 'lost' on this one.  All my life; have never seen anything like this before. 

 

I am not in a nice situation now..as many people are around here.  Thanks for the advice and help.   I do indeed appreciate it.  Just do not understand why it runs worse than when it did on only three cylinders and the bad head gasket blowing tons of air out of it.  Ran 'ok' then!  It appears to me, it just gets keeping worse as time goes by.  It appears to me, that something is changing.  What?!  I do not know.  After spending a couple weeks trying to figure it out, I am through.  Followed all advice offered, and did some more things.  Why...'all of a sudden' this crap?  I don't know. 

 

I witnessed him doing things that I thought were correct.   Something changed instantly when he tried to get it running.  I have tried for over two weeks now to figure it out.     

May try to get rid of both of them.  I don't have the money to fix them up.  Will try locally to get rid of them, since no one on this forum is from around here.  Offered to have it taken by AAA to have someone work on it, and no one even offered.  This location was not the place to work on it to begin with... not the proper location to work on an engine...my opinion...to do it at..my opinion.  He did try his best.  I have no explanation why the end result.  He is an honest person.  So am I.

 

The end result is I give up!    Never realized that guys would not work on it around here, until this.

 

Is Portland allergic to these old Datsuns' ? 

...One thing I discovered is that no one wants to work on them for some reason.  They refuse to work on the old Datsun's....simple English. 

 

I went to places that work on old cars around here and they will work on\Toyota's but not these old Datsuns for some reason.  'Something wrong'... think it best I get rid of both of them.  Need the money to survive the next winter before I lose our house anyway.  We are in a bad financial mess...just thought I could pay someone to fix that thing up...  I don't know what went wrong.  He did his best to do things correctly.    Now; I cannot even drive it safely...spent tons of hours trying to figure out why.  I failed.  ...just seems to be something to do with the timing...but  he did everything correctly from what I saw.  I had originally removed the grill and radiator and fan to make it easier for anyone to work on it.  He  told me that was not necessary, so I put it back together before he got over here. ... I was going to work on it myself, until I read all the stuff on the internet about the timing chain stuff.     

        

Thanks folks!  For  attempting to help me.               

Again, I thank you for helping me on this 'critter' I have had for about nearly 40 years and 'know nothing about'..Kind of wondering how I kept it running!

 

 

.                                             

                                          

[banzai510(hainz)]

If Wanyno fixed the head gasket and timing chain.

i will assume the motor is good mechanically 

other issues could be a worn distributor or a worn out carb.

I seen mismatched coils installed or ballast resistor removed also causing  distributor problems
I seen where the fuel line going into the carb is cracked making it seem like it’s running out of gas.

Privious owner of my truck had a crack fuel line going to the tank in the wheel well where water was going in and making it run bad with water in the gas

a L16/18/20 the motor are pretty much the same just emission stuff on the later motors made it harder to work on and trouble shoot some times but most kept the same simpler carb set ups from the earlier years and not use the emission stuff.

I have a Toyota and I think the Datsun motor is ezer to work on but that is me.

Edited August 4, 2020 by banzai510(hainz)

[wayno]

 

I heard it idle for maybe 10 seconds, it was a fast idle not a slow idle, but it ran so I thought maybe a head gasket would fix it, but it has other issues.

I had it idling fairly smoothly at around 800rpms at one point using the fuel mixture screw as I could not adjust the idle speed with the idle screw as it was not touching that screw, I moved the distributor around to see if it would run better, it was where I found it when I left, as I recall it was cranked all the way clockwise in the adjustment groove.

 

 

 

 

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

If cranked to one side it might be off a tooth,mismatched distributor pedestal or timing plate or just need to adjust the plate more by loosening that 8mm bolt underneath To reset the timing plate to get more movement.

example:if one has to crank dist to one side then most likely it will go out of time as the motor speeds up.

However owner says this was good before and assume the distributor drive clocking is good. And oil pump wasn’t dropped when you changed the head gasket so none of that was changed.

i had worn worn out dist when I reach higher speed it would cut out.normal driving fine but when stressed pushing it ,Motor ran worst but not that bad.I swapped in another dist and it was like having a rebuilt motor in there

Points gap good??

the idle speed screw? I had Weber DGV where it did not touch the speed screw.was fine.i always thought it was perfect when it did that.

Edited August 4, 2020 by banzai510(hainz)

[old521]

 

Think I posted earlier that I had let it idle for over 90 minutes.   Not a fast idle.  Did that to see if anything was leaking anywhere.  Everything was fine.  Did not overheat.  Just air blowing out near the rear of the head. 

 

That I had driven it to different shops in town.  Had no problems with idle or acceleration.  Just noisy as all get out!   Had no problems in traffic.

 

Other than the gasket, sounded to me that it was the timing chain making noise.   But it ran great!   No problems!   Had absolutely no problems with the carburetor. 

 

It ran good, even though it was running on only three cylinders and the gasket was leaking.  Now it is not even safe to drive.  Guess it is the chain that is still making all the racket.   Had a bad time just getting it back into that spot again, because of the way the engine was running.  It can sit there forever, now! 😀

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Sounds to me like something inside the distributor is broken. At least a strong possibility. The breaker plate is held in place by the vacuum advance mechanism, and if that is loose, the breaker plate will float around, changing the timing. Also, there are two springs that hold the distributor cam, they allow for mechanical advance from centrifugal force when the engine revs. If one or both of those springs are loose or broken, again, the timing can float around. There are other things inside the distributor that can wear or become loose that cause the changing idle scenario.

 

Aside from the distributor, there are a multitude of other potential causes. One cause could be the cam timing is off a tooth. I know Wayno did the work, so this is unlikley, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

If the spring is missing from the carb linkage, that could cause a floating idle too. Check the carb linkage for loose or missing parts.

 

If the carb is dirty from sitting with old gas, this can also be a problem.