Need someone to replace head gasket

[datzenmike]

On there, left of the numbers, is the engine size

 

 

That's right wayno you did on the W53.

 

521 and 510 didn't have by pass on the thermostat housing just to the intake. Thermostat had 'jiggle valve'.  Looks like it should be connected to the hose on the intake and a temp gauge sender put in? Or is there a sender under this?

[old521]

Interesting,  The 72 says L16; which would be correct.  This one says L18.  Wonder how it got mislabeled from Japan.  I never knew there was even an 1800 cc until today, that I can recall.  What were they put in?  Must not have been very popular in the pickups.  This thing may be older than what I thought it was.  I don't know.  So, it is a W53 sitting on top of the L18.  Don't know if that makes any difference on the timing chain stuff or not.  Was that the original combination?  Am wondering if maybe that one place that worked on it when the water flooded the whole inside of the engine; put a different head on it.   About 20 years or so ago.  I don't recall them doing that.  Not certain what they did, if anything to the head, as a matter of fact.  Obviously replaced the gasket.  Still does not affect Wayno taking it off and putting a new gasket on.  Must be a different timing chain than for the L20B.  Or maybe not.  I don't know. 

[wayno]

Like I said, I forgot to look at the front cover to confirm it was an L20b, the L18 has a different timing chain length, I don't have anything for an L18 timing chain wise, but I do have the correct head gasket and intake/exhaust gasket, I may even have the front cover gaskets for the L18 as they come in gasket sets so they can sell the gasket set for all the L block engines, I only use the L20b gaskets.

L18 or L20b the head gasket is the same as far as I know, oh and I am coming over Wednesday not tomorrow(Tuesday), I have a pressure washing job tomorrow.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by wayno

[old521]

Yeah, I was expecting you on Wednesday.  Was looking on the internet and see the 1800 was used in cars in 1974.  So, guess I was wrong by only maybe two years! 

 

That really surprised me when I came up with that this evening.  Don't know if I still have the receipt; but I swear it was sold as a 2 liter engine to me.  Wonder how often this happens to people?   If I knew what I was doing, and bought parts for the timing chain, I would have ordered for the larger engine.  That would have really created a mess.  Am glad I did not try to work on it. 

 

Thanks guys.  Appreciate your time. 

[wayno]

This is what the gasket kit I have says for engine size and the years.

It appears I do have the front cover gaskets.

[old521]

Hi! 

 

Yeah, I see the 2 liter is listed for 76...and the 1.8 for 74. 

 

Well, that is great that you have all the gaskets.  Sure glad I asked for help on this forum!  Like I said, I never even was aware of a 1.8 engine. 

[datzenmike]

On the truck

521

L16...... '70-'72

620

L16...... '73

L18...... '74

L20B.... '75-'79

720....... '80

 

On cars

610

L18...... '73

L20B... '74*-'76

710

L18...... '74

L20B.... '75-'77

S10

L20B...... '77-'79

A10......... '79**

 

*The first year the L20B was used was on the '74 610 and used an A87 head. All other '75 and up car and truck L20Bs used the  U67 head through '77 then switched to the W58 head.

 

**Canada kept the L20B through '80 on the A10

 

The L18 used in the truck and cars here were A87 heads.

 

The W53 head was used on the L18 in Japan so this supports the entire engine having been replaced with an import.

 

L16 and L18 use the same timing chain. L20B is 4cm longer

[wayno]

Is the cam and crank gear the same on all L blocks?

[datzenmike]

Yes for all L series. The crank sprocket is also the same for all Z20 engines and the Z24i used in the WD21 Pathfinder. Yet the Z22 and Z24/Z24i in the 720 lists a different number. (I think they are the same)

[old521]

Well; the head then matches the block.  So it probably is the original head.  I was also wondering about the sprocket too.  They used a different head over here, than they did in Japan. 

 

Interesting information.  Thanks. 

[wayno]

Your head is likely a closed chamber head(peanut head) that likely came from Japan on a used engine with 30,000 miles on it, all the engines that came to the USA in new vehicles back then had open chamber heads because of emissions standards, it was easier/cheaper to change out an engine than to rebuild it, the Japanese used engines were so cheap that it was the cheapest way to fix a worn out engine, replace it with a cheap used engine, that is how most the dual SU packages ended up in the USA, a few EFI packages also made it here.

 

I have some extra sprockets/gears, but I suspect the chains and guides I have are too long, I just had no need to save L16/L18 stuff, pieces were sold, I kept the dual SU stuff, and the rest was scrapped, I have never had a use for a gutless L16, never owned an L18, and going from an L16 to the L20b was the best upgrade I ever made to a 521 truck to this day, I have made other upgrades but going from an L16 to an L20b was a dramatic change, nothing since has been that dramatic of a change, although going from no trailer brakes to having trailer brakes on my Datsun 521 work truck was very dramatic also, so was going from the stock 521 brake system to power front disc brakes, but that engine upgrade was awesome, I likely would not have Datsun trucks anymore except for that engine upgrade back in the 90s.

[old521]

Yeah, I know about the Japanese and the standards they had that made it less expensive to buy a new engine rather than do otherwise. 

 

Well, what I can say is that this engine ran great.  Seemed to have plenty of power.  I put on air shocks on the back.  I have even hauled the back full of gravel to put on the alley near here a number of times.  That stuff weighed quite a bit to say the least!  I never drove it on the freeway to amount to anything.  Replaced the clutch only once.  Did drive it back and forth to my job for many years downtown before I retired.  Lot more powerful than the L16 when it ran correctly in the 72.  At least that is the way I remember it.  Seems it was proper for driving in the city.  Only a four speed.  Both are four speed.  You never had one, and I never knew they existed, and I have had one many years! 😀  Too small a vehicle for me to want to drive it on highways.  I prefer a little more safety!  That is what the Sherman Tank is for!    

 

Am kind of worried about the condition of the head, since it is probably the original one.  Guess we will find out tomorrow.  I am not touching anything other than what I removed for you to get the head off.  The position it is in, the chain looks tight.  But that is not the correct position to tell.  And you may be correct.  There is so much noise being made just from that hole, that the chain may not be making noise like I thought it was.  Find out tomorrow. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by old521

[datzenmike]

In Japan every year or so the vehicle needs a 'certification' to be allowed on the road. When the mileage gets up there, for argument sake, say 50K, the cost for your right to be on the road skyrockets. At some point it's cheaper to buy a new vehicle that to pay for the old one. This is a generalization of what happens. 

[wayno]

OK, so this is my list of things to bring, I will likely be there around 10am and will likely be driving my 521 work truck in the photo below.

 

Torque Wrench(clicker), L18 is 55lbs in 3 steps.

Manual with torque sequence.

Timing chain wedges(have 2 slightly different profiles).

1/2" impact and needed sockets.

18V Dewalt tools/batteries/flashlight.

Work light with very bright LED bulb.

Razor blades.

Tool Bag(wrenches/sockets/screw drivers/ect).

Gaskets

Camera

Cheater glasses so I can see what I am doing.

 

Did I forget anything?

[old521]

Guess I will fire up the big air compressor.  Thought you said you did not need to use any impact wrenches.  I have them.  Different sizes.  And a torque wrench.  But bring the ones you want to use. 

 

Bringing the trailer too?  Going to shave with the razor blades?  I do have a bucket of soapy water out there😀 

 

I have some gasket sealers.  You may have a favorite to use though.  I don't know.  I do have a valve cover gasket.  May not need to use any gaskets after looking at the head! 😀

 

I will be waiting.  Park over there again.  Too many near crashes in front of the house.  And plenty that have crashed out there. 

[wayno]

The razor blades are to clean off the block and head surfaces, there is no need sealers on the head gasket or the intake/exhaust gasket unless re-using the old one.

I am bring the impact for the cam bolt and possibly the crank bolt, and another socket holding the Allen head on the head bolts(3 sockets total), I am not bringing a lot of tools, but I like my Dewalt drivers and the Milwaukie M12 ratchet wrench, I use them on everything at my house.

You really don't need to fire up the compressor unless we need it, but it is better to have the tools I need in case I need them, if I didn't have what I needed I would be telling myself I should have brought it.

 

This is all I am bringing, most everything is in that tool box and bucket.

 

[old521]

Ok.  Fine. 

 

I was just joking about the razor blades! 

 

I went out there and looked at the numbers again on that block.  Hard to believe I was wrong all these years.  Maybe I made the mistake myself.  Not sure how I could have made that one.  I do make mistakes, but that one caught me completely 'off-guard'! 

 

See ye'.  

Edited July 15, 2020 by old521

[pidge]

Good luck today Wayno. Nice of ya!! 

[datzenmike]

11 hours ago, old521 said:

Ok.  Fine. 

 

I was just joking about the razor blades! 

 

I went out there and looked at the numbers again on that block.  Hard to believe I was wrong all these years.  Maybe I made the mistake myself.  Not sure how I could have made that one.  I do make mistakes, but that one caught me completely 'off-guard'! 

 

See ye'.  

 

It's not uncommon to have a different engine and in this case probably a low mileage import. There's nothing to suggest that it's 'worn out' either. To the contrary if replaced it was in better shape than the original. Blown head gaskets are rare but do happen. I expect a full recovery.

 

3 hours ago, pidge said:

Good luck today Wayno. Nice of ya!! 

 

Indeed wayno.

[MikeRL411]

19 hours ago, datzenmike said:

In Japan every year or so the vehicle needs a 'certification' to be allowed on the road. When the mileage gets up there, for argument sake, say 50K, the cost for your right to be on the road skyrockets. At some point it's cheaper to buy a new vehicle that to pay for the old one. This is a generalization of what happens. 

 

Right !  At 10 years the inspections get really chicken s%%t.  You cannot really sell a 10 year old model in Japan, hence the proliferation of 40,00 mile engines on the import market. 4000 miles a year is considered high mileage in Japan. Really!  The vehicle is usually scrapped or exported [used to be to Vladivostok].  My niece's husband had an immaculate 10 year old Toyota station wagon, low mileage etc. that he had to literally give to his wife's sister to get rid of it.  Her husband drove us to the airport in it, it ran like you would expect a brand new Toyota to run.

[wayno]

Well I went over there and changed out the L18 head gasket, Glenn is a funny guy to hang out with, he gives you shit and receives it without too much complaining.

First thing I looked at was the intake side chain guide, it looked bent to me, I bent it back once the head was removed, I also looked down in there and could see the post at the bottom, the chain made that familiar curve it makes, it did not look like the chain tensioner had come out of position, my wedge fit in there perfect once I cut an inch off the end as the L18 is shorter, so I went forward thinking there was nothing wrong with the chain., once the head was off it was obvious what the issue was, a giant piece of gasket was missing from the cylinder to the outside of the block, I spent a lot of time cleaning the block and head surfaces, I also used the set of head bolts I brought with me as his were covered with what appeared to be some kind of sealer or gasket material, we had to pound one of the head bolts out of the head as it would not spin out, I ruined a screw driver getting it out and then we used a drill bit to open up the holes in the head till the head bolts slid in and out without restriction, the driver side head bolts did not unscrew out of the block easily, none were loose but the rear pass side was not all that tight either.

The head looked fine in that area, but the block was rusty and pitted where the head gasket was missing, I cleaned and cleaned the best I could and put the head back on, it went on smoothly without any issues, we put it back together using a new intake/exhaust gasket, I cleaned them surfaces also, this W53 head had no coolant holes.

When we started it it didn't want to start, it took a few times to get it going, once running it did not run very well and would not idle, it was missing badly, I figured out that #2 plug was not firing, I had that valve cover off that engine several times checking the valve lash by feel, none were terribly tight, it sounded terrible, I fiddled with the fuel mixture and got it to idle fairly smoothly but it just didn't sound right, I used another spark plug wire on #2 plug and that changed nothing, but eventually #2 plug started firing using the original wire, but still the engine sounded wrong, I figured out that somehow I got the cam gear installed 1 tooth off so I fixed that, maybe it was off all that time.

The more we worked on it the better it idled, but the engine was very noisy like the valves were too loose, I fiddled with the distributor timing but that was confusing, you see it appears to have an L20b plate, but an L16 pulley, I just adjusted it to where it idled best, it will idle near 700rpms but it just didn't sound right, I did forget to bring a straight edge to check the block and head, it did not leak coolant into the oil or blow coolant out of the radiator, it really does idle very slow but it just don't sound right, but I am comparing that to my work truck engine, mine has dual SUs and his has a Weber, not sure how old the fuel is in the tank, but in my experience these engines will not run on spoiled fuel and he said he had added some a few months ago, in the past when I had fuel spoil adding new fuel only ruined the new fuel, it would still not run, in the end just before I left it started easily, it just seemed very noisy to me, it revved fine but seemed to have an extended/long/slow un-revving, I don't have a word, it un-revved slower than my work truck engine, but this is an L18 and mine is a LZ23.

I expect the first thing I would do is new plugs to see if that helped, next I would either rebuild the Weber carb or at least clean it out, I really don't like down drafts, either they run great or they need replacing, I prefer Dual SUs, I understand them.

If it were my truck I would likely drive it around for a while and see if it improves, I would check the valve adjustment, do a tune-up also, I might even try sucking fresh fuel out of a gas can to see if the gas is part of the issue, it needs timed also, I could do that driving it, but having mix matched timing marks is very confusing, I left when I had done all I could think of.

I really do not understand how people put up with that traffic on the freeways in Portland, they need minimum speed limits and then start passing out tickets for those not doing the minimum, after a few tickets either they will do the speed limit or quit driving during high traffic times, I hate Portland traffic after 3pm.

[Angela]

Wayno YOU ARE A SAINT!

 

You have renewed my faith in people to a degree. I wish you many blessings. What a wonderful thing you did today. You are a wonderful human being.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Angela

[old521]

Before I retired, I used to say 'humor and sarcasm gets me through the day'.  When I realized what kind of day this was going to be, I reverted back to that.  We survived the day.  Not sure I know how Wayno did it though.  It was just 'one thing after another'. 

 

Now, I gotta start all over.  Something 'fishy'.   Have to check dwell and see if I can time the thing.  Now I think I know why I always had difficulty timing and setting the distributor.  Wrong pulley on the thing?!  That happened in Japan?  Not sure I can buy that.  The place that worked on it 20 years ago down the street when a head gasket blew?  Am sorta wondering.  Maybe they needed the pulley that was on it for someone else?  I did learn they were not honest after I had them work on that thing when the gasket blew.  I learned that after they changed ownership....no..before...when they lied to me about something simple.  Supposedly honest people run the place now. 

 

Could not even adjust carburetor to my satisfaction today, for some odd-ball reason all of a sudden.  And I don't know if the chain being off one tooth would cause the change or not.  But something is different for some reason.  I had the timing set, but had to rotate the distributor all the way one direction.  I never understood why.   Now, gotta see how much is/if things are different.  Almost scared to hook up anything to it and look at numbers on scales!  Meter or vacuum! 

 

Too tired to even think about it now.  Never expected him to encounter such a headache.  Seems a number of things made no sense.  And to use a small sledge hammer to knock a bolt out of a head?!  I thought he was not seeing something correct.  But...I told him I have a sledge hammer.   It took a small sledge hammer to do it, and ruined his screwdriver!!   It was as though someone had glued it in.  With concrete!  That was just one incident during the day!

 

As far as traffic, most people are not even working Wayno!  You should see the traffic when everybody is working!  Takes a half hour to just go less than a mile in some places during 'rush hours.   A horrendous population increase in just a handful of years has made it like California traffic.  Our roads were not designed for such an increase in traffic.   Sorry ...I said something about California traffic.  No offense meant.  And people here do not even know how to drive like Californians do; higher speeds bumper to bumper.  Have been around the country and they had the best drivers on freeways at the time.  My opinion. 

 

Thanks a million Wayno!  Gonna take me awhile to recuperate and get in the mood to go out there and see what is going on.  I do not understand why so many things are so screwed up on that thing.  I am the only owner, except the Japanese.  And only one place has worked on it.  Thank goodness I did not attempt to tear that thing apart myself. 

[wayno]

I wish the head gasket had fixed everything, but it did not.

I would likely clean the spark plugs and put #2 plug in #1 hole and see if the intermittent timing light missing follows the plug or if it stays at #2, I tried another spark plug wire and that really didn't change anything, I put the original wire back on after the engine warmed up and it only missed a flash(timing light) every once in a while.

Also if you were to buy new plugs(NGK) and it gets better then I would be inclined to think the plug/plugs were fouled like what happens to my 520 sometimes if I leave the choke on too long, sometimes it continues to miss till I take the plug out and clean it, then it runs fine again, that engine is the only one that does that to me and it has done it several times.

The Weber carb could also be part of the issue, that is harder to deal with as the only way to find out for sure is to try another carb to see if it improves or replace it, but I would do all the cheaper stuff first, plugs, points, timing, cap, rotor, and adjust the valves to the proper gap, the specs are in that book I accidentally left there.

I guess I should elaborate on my sounds funny comment, the exhaust sound sounds funny, it sounds like it is missing even though it is not missing, as it could never idle at that smoothly at that low of an RPM if it was missing, it was actually idling pretty smooth after I messed with the mixture screw and it warmed up, the engine noise is also another issue that I would start with doing the valve lash to see if that quiets it down, going by the feel like I did is not really the proper way to do that, but I just wanted to make sure none were too tight or too loose.

 

I rarely go over to Portland anymore, and if I do I usually make sure I get back across the bridge before 3pm, but today that was not going to happen, I spent a lot of time cleaning the block/head and trying to get it to run better, it did start and run better when I left than when we first started it.

 

[old521]

Wayno.   I am trying to remember something.  I am almost tempted to think maybe that is not the engine that went into that shop I took it into.  Not going to discuss it here, but if my memory serves me correctly, they did something I never heard of,  just because of a bad head gasket. 

 

The traffic.  If there is a wreck or something,  it does take time for people to get up to speed again. And that happens almost daily.  That might have been what happened to you too. 

A friend of mine moved out of state and came back last year to visit and could not believe how long it took to just get from downtown to the Interstate Bridge.  The weather was hot like today, too! 😀

 

Yeah, I had it all tuned up last year.  And I did put fresh gas into it just a while back.  The semi-yearly changes in the gas sometimes affects the things.  But I showed you the stuff I put in if that happens.  But it is not running like that.  Plus; it needs to be 'under load' for me to set the timing in the past.   Seems I could never go by the way you are supposed to use a timing light on that thing.  Dunno if that makes sense or not. I tried it more than once, because I could not figure out why the distributor would always end up in the position it is in.  Thought maybe I was doing something wrong.  Not sure if any of this makes sense or not.

 

At least it has a head gasket now.  Thanks.  But why the L20B pulley on a L18 engine?   I never put it on there!  Why would the Japanese put it on there?  Only one place it has been worked on. 

 

Thanks again!  Really appreciate your help, expertise and patience! 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by old521